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Big red mach 1,

25 lb.ft. is WAY too much 6 lb.ft. sounds much better.

If it were mine I would remove the carb and check the base for flatness and perhaps draw file it flat again.

also remove the carb studs and check the carb base of intake, (possibly find a raised area at the carb studs)

Please let us know what your valve lash (preload) was and what you re-adjusted it to.

I usually go about 20 minutes on the sealant (Permatex ultra gray) with good results.

then walk away till the next day before starting.

Boilermaster

 Really good point on the flatness. Also and I'm sure he knows this, do not screw studs in too tight. They should not bottom out, but maybe a 1/2 turn back from bottom.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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General consensus is go with DuraSpark, Performance Distributors made to order by the looks of it. Cheaper too! https://performancedistributors.com/product-category/distributors/ford-distributors

I've run MSD 6AL boxes for many years with good success. Be aware that any of the CD boxes that power the coil directly (MSD, Taylor etc) will require the use of an MSD 8920 Tach Adapter to maintain f

I just finished a Duraspark 1 conversion on my 429, used a box and coil from Rockauto and a new custom-curved distributor from Scotty J http://reincarnation-automotive.com/services Seems to run g

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I didn’t know there’s different set up types for the Right Stuff. As far as I know it can be put into service immediately, but for this I let it set overnight. Like Stanglover said just follow the directions, use a really thick bead and run some up on the heads.

 

To me, it sure sounds like whoever bought this car from fasteddie tried to do who knows what to this engine. I know you said that this car has mostly sat in a garage since they bought it, but some of the things your finding sure don’t seem like FastEddie would do. He sounded like a great mechanic that knew what he was doing with this car. Just make sure to really look at everything close, everyone here will help you get it sorted out. Good luck!

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John - 72 Q Code

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I've never actually "measured" preload before. I'll see what it is this time though.

 

This is what I've always known to do.

 

(This assumes all nuts are backed off, or a new build where they have not been tightened down yet.)

 

1. Put a breaker bar on the crank.

2. Start at number 1 and tighten down as you spin each push rod with your fingers. When they start to make contact/friction with the rocker arm, stop and go to the next one. Do this for each one all the way through. Current valve position does not matter. Just start at the front of each head and work you way to the back.

3. Turn the breaker bar on the crank 90*

4. Repeat Number 2 and 3.

5. Repeat that process minimum of 8 times replicating the engine completely turning over 2 times.

6. Once the engine has been turned over minimum 2 complete times, they should all be essentially at zero lash. None should come loose at any point once the engine has been spun over 2 times.

7. Now put your ratchet on each nut at 12 noon and tighten down 3/4 turn. Do this for all. This represents .030 to .035 preload.

 

I do have a feeler gauge, so I can and will double check my work.

 

If you have a different process I'm all ears though.

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Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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Although something tells me this cam may need a different value. I'm going to look up the spec.

 

EDIT -- Looks like they want .020 -.040 so, I'm going to shoot for .030 dead in the middle.

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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I'm assuming you have an aftermarket aluminum intake manifold. Edelbrock recommends 18-20 ft-lbs for the final torque on their manifolds. Due to the different expansion ratios of the aluminum intake and the iron heads there has to be a little movement. The 25 you used for the initial tighten down should be OK, the gasket is likely to compress more than the 5 ft-lb difference.

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“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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I'm assuming you have an aftermarket aluminum intake manifold. Edelbrock recommends 18-20 ft-lbs for the final torque on their manifolds. Due to the different expansion ratios of the aluminum intake and the iron heads there has to be a little movement. The 25 you used for the initial tighten down should be OK, the gasket is likely to compress more than the 5 ft-lb difference.

Thanks Don, 20 is probably correct. I actually tried to find a torque spec for this Offenhauser 360 dual plane intake and came up short. But typically a 5/16 stud is 20-25ft.lbs. So I just went with the higer of the 2. But 20 is probably correct. 

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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Hey all, how tight do you torque your carb down? Mine was torqued to 25ftlbs. which seems like way too tight. Gaskets were gas soaked. I've now read that 80 inch pounds or 6 foot pounds is more like it. What do you prefer?

 

Also - just FYI, this issue existed before the carb was more recently torqued down to that value. So this is not the source of my issue. But I do want to torque the carb down properly upon reassembly this weekend.

 

My intake I did 3 passes on. I did a pass at 10, 20 and 25 ft. LBS. I plan on doing that again when reassembling this time also unless anyone has a better suggestion.

 

I did buy "The Right Stuff" 90 minute variety. I think they had a 1 minute type, but I'm never a fan of things that cure that quickly. I've always been of the opinion that a slower cure time produces a better result.

 

What do you guys like as far as letting it set up for a few before placing the intake? Do you like to set it on right away, or let it set for 15 or so to where it just starts curing before setting the intake down? I'm sure everyone has their preferred method, and why they like it that way.

 Personally, I don't actually torque my carb down, I just go diagonally back and forth until 'tight' then go another 1/2 turn. Never had a leak that way. I only use a 1/4" drive socket, but I guess about 70 -80 inch pounds would be about right. Even tightness is important though.

As for using "The Right Stuff" follow the directions on the tube. Also on the ends, go up the heads as well for about 1/2" or so to make sure the corners seal. I clean the surfaces with alcohol first, but that's just me. Use a good 1/4" bead, don't skimp! It can be cleaned up after if needed.

Before long, that baby will be purring like a kitten and you'll be a happy camper.

Nothing sounds better to me right now!!!  :D

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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Before long, that baby will be purring like a kitten and you'll be a happy camper.

Nothing sounds better to me right now!!!  :D

 Hope so.  ::thumb::

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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So valve covers off revealed this. I'm not sure what to think. Wasn't what I was expecting to see. All of the rockers have been scarred by the lock down nuts. I have never seen this before.

 

Additionally, I have had a couple of rockers hitting the baffles inside of the valve covers. Answers my little ticking noise.

 

One of the rockers at some point actually put a hole in the valve cover and Eddie apparently patched it from the inside.

 

One of the rockers at some point definitely took some good superficial damage. Looks like something came loose and was bouncing around in there. One was in fact replaced. This was most noticeable by the slightly different color. You can also see it's labeled different.

 

The valve covers are supposedly OEM Boss 351 Valve covers. I'm sure I can bend the baffle out of the way. Is there a huge down side if I just remove them?

Driver-s-Side-Baffle-Touching.jpg

 

Most-Damage.jpg

 

Replaced-Rocker.jpg

 

Rocker-on-Driver-Side-Hitting-Baffle.jpg

 

Valve-Cover-Impact-Outside.jpg

 

Valve-Cover-Impact-Patch.jpg

 

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Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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That's a lot of ugly pictures!! I can't comment on this issue other than somethin ain't right somewhere.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Wow, that doesn’t look good. You can bend the baffle so the rockers don’t hit them. Looks like the poly locks are set to far down? Or they aren’t the correct ones for those rockers? Not sure, one of the more knowledgeable guys here will let you know.

John - 72 Q Code

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I PM'd Eddie (the previous owner) on Facebook Messenger to ask him if he had some sort of previous issue that caused this, and he just chose to keep them this way and not replace them. Or if this is new damage that he has not seen. We'll see what he says.

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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Wow, that doesn’t look good. You can bend the baffle so the rockers don’t hit them. Looks like the poly locks are set to far down? Or they aren’t the correct ones for those rockers? Not sure, one of the more knowledgeable guys here will let you know.

 

I thought they looked very recessed also! :-/

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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If you look at the one that has been replaced, it looks perfect. The Polylock is also slightly different. I can get a set of 16 on Summit and I think I'm headed that direction.

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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Check to make sure the rockers are ok. If they weren’t put in correct then they could be damaged. Look at the swivel part where the poly locks seat on them.. The locks should be setting on the flat machined side, not the round side. I would also inspect everything in that valve train closely, which I’m sure you will.

John - 72 Q Code

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Big red mach 1,

That looks like geometry 101 to me,

Suggest that you start doing some measuring.

I would start by checking rocker arm to valve stem contact pattern and see where you sit.

check pushrod length and then the length of your rocker nuts.

Obviously your rockers are contacting the adjusting nuts when the valves are closing

your contact pattern (should) reveal that your pushrods are too long or the rocker studs are wrong.

Shorter pushrods will gain you some threads on the rocker nuts (perhaps the rocker nuts are NOT too long)

Too long of a pushrod length could also explain the rocker to rocker cover contact.

check the part# of those rockers too and see if they are right for your application.

Boilermaster

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1 PLUS on Jpaz's last post.

Don't know how the crane cams rocker arm is configured.

I guess there could be a round and flat on the trunnion.

meaning they could be installed 180 and therefore cause the nuts to be so backed off.

that would also give the impression that the pushrods (look) too long.

Boilermaster

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Valve-train geometry looks good. The wear line is pretty tight and runs right down main street on the valve tip. Pushrods look good.

 

What does not look good is that the underside of the rocker arm. They obviously have some wobble to them. And upon further inspection there is play in the rocker arm shaft.

 

 

20200321-133550.jpg

 

 

About this time, FastE PM's me back and let's me know that he's used this particular set of rockers in many engines since the 1980. Not the 80's. 1980. Good enough for me to replace them. Hell, the old part number doesn't even yield results.

 

The one single new rocker looks great. No play in the rocker arm shaft. No damage whatsoever. Mint. Pushrod on that that one looked great as well, and geometry also.

 

Seeing as how these old rockers have served their purpose well, it's time I retire them.

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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It should also be noted that on the one good newer rocker arm the Poly Lock is 1/16" taller. And right now that 1/16" is probably making a lot of difference.

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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That’s why I couldn’t find that part number.

 

You and me both!!  lollerz

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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The rocker studs appear to be too short, ARP offers different lengths.

 

For my current build, I'll be running Comp Cams Ultra Pro Magnum XD steel rockers. My engine builder says he won't even use aluminum anymore. The XDs are lighter over the tip and have less clearance issues.

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The rocker studs appear to be too short, ARP offers different lengths.

 

For my current build, I'll be running Comp Cams Ultra Pro Magnum XD steel rockers. My engine builder says he won't even use aluminum anymore. The XDs are lighter over the tip and have less clearance issues.

 

Yeah, when I ordered the new rockers today I also ordered 1.90 studs. The ones installed are 1.7's definitely too short which is why the allen head is buried so deep. 

 

I did look at those Ultra Pro Mag XD's. I damn near added them to my cart, but stuck with aluminum. Based on the one good one he had in there, it should be just fine, but yeah those steel rockers looked pretty attractive.

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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Anyway, I have growing confidence that by the time I replace the studs, and rockers, get preload set, and replace the intake manifold gasket, I'll be in super good shape. Fingers crossed, but we definitely seem to be on the right path here.

 

I still may need to replace the power valve in the carb. Eddie believes he had a 8.5 in there which would really require 17Hg of vacuum to work optimally. I don't expect to get anywhere near that. If i got 14-15Hg and had a 6.5 Power Valve, I think I'd be happy.

Chris - Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former Mechanic U.S. Army

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

BIG RED MACH 1

Learning a lesson (or three) on the Cleveland every day.

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I never thought that the studs would be too short. That sure would explain the problems you experienced. Hopefully that’s all it was. Probably a combination of everything that was done wrong.

John - 72 Q Code

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