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For all you Edelbrock Carb fans


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A friend called me today looking for a Cleveland motor. Somehow we got on the subject of Edelbrock carbs and intakes as well as Edelbrock heads for Clevelands. Long story short, he's a big fan for his Mopar car(s) so he convinced me to take a look at some YouTube videos on Edelbrock carbs and their set up.

Now, to be fair, I have not looked at all he sent, 6 of them, but I'll post them here for all you Edelbrock fans in our group. I'm still not one of them, nor likely will be, but some of this is very interesting stuff, especially on fuel pressure.

Here you go. I still think they just look WEIRD!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I know that I lot of people don't like them. But I have had my Edlebrock 1406 for over 5 year with no issues. It was a huge improvement over the stock 

motorcraft carburetor.

 

 

 

 

John J

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I don't have any preference or prejudice ... a carb is a carb to me... like a light bulb is a light bulb 

I'm also a big mopar fan Chargers, GTO's , Challengers SuperBee's etc. 

 

...what's wrong with Edelbrock ?

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Hey Bud, GTO is Pontiac  :whistling:

 Yeah and a light bulb can be incandescent, CFL or LED. 

Sorry for beating you up 1sostatic. I get what he's saying though, sort of. :huh:

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Hey Bud, GTO is Pontiac  :whistling:

 

There is always one in the crowd...

 Hey, he's a Brit, we should give him some slack!! I also at one point thought GTO's were Mopar........ many years ago that is!

Actually, the GTO is an awesome car and would have fit right in to the Mopar family.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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OK, OK OKaaaaaaay  ... I added the GTO because I love those too :whistling:

 

how about the original question guys ... "...whats wrong with Edelbrock" ?

Don't worry, "anybody can make a mistake...…. said the Hedgehog climbing off the clothes brush!!" (my Dad's old saying)

But, did anybody watch the videos?

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Yeah ... But I've used Holley, Weber and Edelbrock in my sorded, disgusting past. At the moment I have pedestrian 600cfm 1406 elec choke performer series in my green machine. Webers being the most annoying for me ... sneeze and they'll block a capillary.

 

Is it one of these situations where one hairy stereotype prefer Holley's and the other Edel's ?

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OK, OK OKaaaaaaay  ... I added the GTO because I love those too :whistling:

 

how about the original question guys ... "...whats wrong with Edelbrock" ?

 

 

Mopar did make the GTX as well, so it’s certainly an understandable mistake anyway I think.. I myself was originally a GM guy (sorta raised that way) who loved all muscle cars, but eventually settled on 71-73 Mustangs as my favorite.

 

I am by no means a carburetor expert, but I have had several 600cfm 1406 Edelbrocks, and one Thunder series 650cfm (I forget the model number). I found them to be excellent, reliable, and inexpensive carburetors. They are a little harder to tune for higher performance applications, compared to some others. I think the tunability of a Holley is a somewhat better/easier, but I had a bad experience with a fuel leak with a Holley that made me lean towards the Edelbrock design (at least between those two).

 

So I have had really good experience personally with the Edelbrock carburetors, but do understand how some folks see them as geared a little more toward an out-of-the-box disposable carburetor.  But I can’t really penalize them for being great out of the box but somewhat harder to tune.

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Lazarus

 

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Is it one of these situations where one hairy stereotype prefer Holley's and the other Edel's ?

 More than likely. 

 I'm not even sure I  like Holley that much anymore after issues I've had to deal with over the last year or so. For now, the piggy bank isn't fat enough for me to change it, but if I did, I think I'd go for a Quick Fuel (now owned by Holley) HR 735. The SA 670 just seems to be not quite enough air. That again could just be me.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I'm an Edelbrock fan, for sure.  

 

Every hot rod that's ever been in my orbit with an Edelbrock on it has never had carb issues aside from simple tuning adjustments needed to match up with timing (my '78 K5 Blazer was my first, and I loved it!).  

 

Most of the Holley-equipped cars also ran really well, but there were more 'leakers' among that crowd.  I think the term 'carburetor rebuild' was copyrighted by Holley, since it seems like they need it more often than most.  ;) :D

 

Edelbrocks are not without their own issues involving age, wear & tear, and ill tuning (usually by the owner), but just like Holleys being preferred and working better for some people, Edelbrocks are preferred and work better for me and many of my friends.

 

 

I'll check out the videos later tonight - they appear to be blocked by the proxy server here at work.

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Eric

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I'm an Edelbrock fan, for sure.  

 

Every hot rod that's ever been in my orbit with an Edelbrock on it has never had carb issues aside from simple tuning adjustments needed to match up with timing (my '78 K5 Blazer was my first, and I loved it!).  

 

Most of the Holley-equipped cars also ran really well, but there were more 'leakers' among that crowd.  I think the term 'carburetor rebuild' was copyrighted by Holley, since it seems like they need it more often than most.  ;) :D  

 

Edelbrocks are not without their own issues involving age, wear & tear, and ill tuning (usually by the owner), but just like Holleys being preferred and working better for some people, Edelbrocks are preferred and work better for me and many of my friends.

 

 

I'll check out the videos later tonight - they appear to be blocked by the proxy server here at work.

 I'd be most interested in your opinion. Not that it will change my mind. I too want to take a good look at all of them, not had a chance either and I don't work!

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Well, the videos were interesting, and pretty much confirmed everything my buddy Jim had to say about Edelbrock carbs - except for the 'not ideal for racing' bit.  Dropping them onto an engine out of the box is not all that far fetched of an idea.  Another friend had a '68 Impala 4-door with a 350, and his factory Rochester was in bad need of a rebuild.  Gave it the college try and it still wasn't happy.  So, he bit the bullet and went with a 1406 - out of the box, 95% of his fuel delivery issues were resolved.  A little bit of timing and air/fuel mix adjustment and it was running almost perfect.

 

The 'not ideal for racing bit' is subjective.  Granted, it's not as easily reconfigurable as Holleys are right there on the engine - changing the jets requires a bit more work that you probably don't want to do right on top of the engine with the open throat right there.  But the reason for that is the one-piece chassis that will not leak unless the seals around the shafts fail, at which point any carburetor would need a rebuild to remedy that.

 

As far as performance goes, I think they're a lot more consistent and don't require adjustments depending on weather and seasonal conditions that might be required for others - set 'em right and forget about it.  I haven't touched any of the settings or adjustments on mine since it was installed back in 2013.  It fires up every time and runs great whether it's cooler during what passes for winter here in West Texas, or if it's pushing past 100 during the summer half of the year.

 

I think after watching that 1406 video, I might be inclined to reset my fuel pressure regulator down to 3 psi - it's currently at 4.5.  All of that will be a moot point once I swap it out for the fuel injection system, though... which is also made by Edelbrock.

 

Thanks for sharing, though!  Interesting stuff! ::thumb::

Eric

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What this tells me is ... no sooner does the factory produce the car with the factory carb...everyone rips it off, hurls it over their shoulder in preference to an after market one. 

 

I had a friend with a 1978 trans am (Bandit style) he said the GM carb was pathetic and swapped it out. I know of a Plymouth duster that lives 15 miles from me with a Holley nailed to it and someone (not me) must've disliked what Ford had given them and hammered the 1406 on there with different filter. 

 

Am I to imagine that in the good ol' US of A ...a bunch of big hairy wrenchers have massive bar fights over who's carb is best ?  lollerz  

 

carbs.jpg

 

:D

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A friend called me today looking for a Cleveland motor. Somehow we got on the subject of Edelbrock carbs and intakes as well as Edelbrock heads for Clevelands. Long story short, he's a big fan for his Mopar car(s) so he convinced me to take a look at some YouTube videos on Edelbrock carbs and their set up.

Now, to be fair, I have not looked at all he sent, 6 of them, but I'll post them here for all you Edelbrock fans in our group. I'm still not one of them, nor likely will be, but some of this is very interesting stuff, especially on fuel pressure.

Here you go. I still think they just look WEIRD!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first one is an Ad. The rest are just funny, "3 lbs. of fuel pressure no matter what carb it is." The stuff on you tube is truly amazing. Chuck

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Well guys, that's an interesting contrast between Eric and Chuck's thoughts on the Edelbrock carbs. 1sostatic is his usual hilarious self! 

I have to admit, I still have not had time study them, but I will for sure, then I can add my 2 cents worth.

Thanks for your comments and input, the debate continues...……..

 

EDIT: Ok I just looked at all the video's.

Now, I know very little about carbs in general other than the basic to intermediate stuff. I've learned a lot over the last few years, thanks to the members here.

So, here's my take away, His set-up does not look very professional, more like something anyone could cobble up in the garage. He shows and uses a GLASS filter, a no-no as far as I'm concerned, (ok, it a test rig, so maybe here) He state that the secondary's open without a load on the motor. I thought a load was needed for the secondary's to kick in, but perhaps I'm wrong in this case. As far as 3 lbs fuel pressure on any carb no matter what brand, well we all know we don't want too much, but could that be too little?

Lastly, I'm still not convinced. There are some very good points to the Edelbrock carbs, but I think I'll stick with more traditional types I'm familiar with.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Well guys, that's an interesting contrast between Eric and Chuck's thoughts on the Edelbrock carbs. 1sostatic is his usual hilarious self! 

I have to admit, I still have not had time study them, but I will for sure, then I can add my 2 cents worth.

Thanks for your comments and input, the debate continues...……..

Full disclosure, I didn't watch all of them in their entirety, so I may have missed something. The cobbled up mess of an engine he had in the videos speaks volumes about his skill and knowledge, at least to me it does. I'm not trying to bad mouth Ed carbs, some are happy with them. I'm just not one of those people. Chuck

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Well guys, that's an interesting contrast between Eric and Chuck's thoughts on the Edelbrock carbs. 1sostatic is his usual hilarious self! 

I have to admit, I still have not had time study them, but I will for sure, then I can add my 2 cents worth.

Thanks for your comments and input, the debate continues...……..

Full disclosure, I didn't watch all of them in their entirety, so I may have missed something. The cobbled up mess of an engine he had in the videos speaks volumes about his skill and knowledge, at least to me it does. I'm not trying to bad mouth Ed carbs, some are happy with them. I'm just not one of those people. Chuck

 You and I are on the same page. I just edited my previous comment to reflect much the same while you were adding a new post.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Since I started messing with cars in the early/mid 70s I have used Motorcraft, Holley, Edelbrock and Summit carbs.

I was fed up with Holley's being temperamental and alternately leaking or drying out so I switched to Edelbrock which is basically an improved Carter. The E'brocks were good and very tunable, but a bit of a pain to use on a Ford.

The last few years I have been running Summit carbs - a cross of the best Motorcraft and Holley features and I love 'em.

Bob

 

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Since I started messing with cars in the early/mid 70s I have used Motorcraft, Holley, Edelbrock and Summit carbs.

I was fed up with Holley's being temperamental and alternately leaking or drying out so I switched to Edelbrock which is basically an improved Carter.  The E'brocks were good and very tunable, but a bit of a pain to use on a Ford.

The last few years I have been running Summit carbs - a cross of the best Motorcraft and Holley features and I love 'em.

Bob, an interesting comment and point of view. 

Thanks.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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One more comical video, my friend sent me last night, 

 

 

This one is for the Edelbrock Rochester style 1904.

The main problem I have with these video's is, in a practical sense, not everybody, in fact most, will not have access to an AFR meter as it requires sensor(s) mounted in a specific location in the exhaust pipe(s) Most of us have to rely on vacuum and timing to get it as close as possible.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Well guys, that's an interesting contrast between Eric and Chuck's thoughts on the Edelbrock carbs. 1sostatic is his usual hilarious self! 

I have to admit, I still have not had time study them, but I will for sure, then I can add my 2 cents worth.

Thanks for your comments and input, the debate continues...……..

 

EDIT: Ok I just looked at all the video's.

Now, I know very little about carbs in general other than the basic to intermediate stuff. I've learned a lot over the last few years, thanks to the members here.

So, here's my take away, His set-up does not look very professional, more like something anyone could cobble up in the garage. He shows and uses a GLASS filter, a no-no as far as I'm concerned, (ok, it a test rig, so maybe here) He state that the secondary's open without a load on the motor. I thought a load was needed for the secondary's to kick in, but perhaps I'm wrong in this case. As far as 3 lbs fuel pressure on any carb no matter what brand, well we all know we don't want too much, but could that be too little?

Lastly, I'm still not convinced. There are some very good points to the Edelbrock carbs, but I think I'll stick with more traditional types I'm familiar with.

 

Glass filter on a test rig - I don't have a problem with that.  On a real car however, yeah I've learned that's not the best way to go.  Agree.   ::thumb::

 

Cobbled together test rig - Yeah, WTF is up with that?!  It looked SO ghetto, but it apparently gave him the information he was looking for.  I couldn't really get my head around what exactly he was testing for, so I just watched and listened for nuggets of inspiration.

 

The fuel pressure declaration told me something I wasn't expecting.  I'd heard something somewhere that 5-6 psi was the sweet spot, so I installed an adjustable pressure control valve on mine and set it to the max 5.5 setting since I had an electric fuel pump putting out 12-14 psi (Holley Black).  It never wavers.  He said anything more than 3 psi is overkill, and pretty much demonstrated that the carburetors themselves (Edelbrocks, at least) are internally regulated to 3 psi (or even less, maybe) - he did this by bumping up the line fuel pressure and nothing changed on the carburetor settings or readings he was getting.  OK - mind blown... but, makes sense since the needle valve assembly can only let through so much volume so fast, after all.  

 

Now the part that gets me is the thought that the secondaries open when there's a load on the engine.  I have to disagree on that idea... the carburetor has no way of detecting a load on the engine.  The secondaries open because the moving parts inside reach a point where the linkage for the secondaries is engaged - period.  Think of the carburetor as if it were a toilet - mostly because of the bowl and float mechanism, but the accelerator pump also works similarly to the 'flush' function.  There are obviously other differences both in form and function, but I believe the basic concepts share common functions.  

 

Toilets also can't sense if there's a clog down stream and therefore 'flush harder' to push through it.  No... they overfill and flood the floor until the tank fills up, engages the float, and shuts off the water.  The engine obviously doesn't load up and clog like a main drain pipe can, but rather bogs down under load.  Carburetors are very similar in that they have no sensors telling them there's a load on the engine - it doesn't care what's going on underneath it.  It just dumps more fuel in at whatever rate it's told to depending on the positions the mechanisms attached to the accelerator cable happen to be.  I suppose a rudimentary form of a 'sensor' could be vacuum, since the engine is basically a giant air pump - when the vacuum starts to drop, I suppose more sophisticated carburetors probably utilize vacuum in some form or fashion, rather than simply regulate it.  Fuel Injection is smart enough to accept and utilize information from various vehicle sensors, but not carburetors.

 

I hope that makes sense - sometimes I tend to over-simplify things in my own head for correlation purposes.  I am also no expert, by any means.  But the toilet analogy works well when explaining carburetors in another way: every time you open the secondaries, you can say you just flushed another nickel down the drain (depending on fuel prices, of course).  ;) :D

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Eric

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Toilets also can't sense if there's a clog down stream and therefore 'flush harder' to push through it.  No... they overfill and flood the floor until the tank fills up, engages the float, and shuts off the water.  The engine obviously doesn't load up and clog like a main drain pipe can, but rather bogs down under load.  Carburetors are very similar in that they have no sensors telling them there's a load on the engine - it doesn't care what's going on underneath it.  It just dumps more fuel in at whatever rate it's told to depending on the positions the mechanisms attached to the accelerator cable happen to be.  I suppose a rudimentary form of a 'sensor' could be vacuum, since the engine is basically a giant air pump - when the vacuum starts to drop, I suppose more sophisticated carburetors probably utilize vacuum in some form or fashion, rather than simply regulate it.  Fuel Injection is smart enough to accept and utilize information from various vehicle sensors, but not carburetors.

 

I hope that makes sense - sometimes I tend to over-simplify things in my own head for correlation purposes.  I am also no expert, by any means.  But the toilet analogy works well when explaining carburetors in another way: every time you open the secondaries, you can say you just flushed another nickel down the drain (depending on fuel prices, of course).  ;) :D

 

 

I like the toilet analogy ....then....

 

:P :D :P

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