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Trunk and door alignment


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Needing some guidance from the body shops guys out there.  First, I know the car was wrecked somewhere in its past.   Both of the rear quarter panels have been patch and the rear window / trunk cross member is not square to the top of the window frame.  1/2" difference from one side to the other.  The rear bumper has also bent and straighten out some.  

 

The two problems I'm having are aligning right side of the trunk and the passenger door at the top by the handle.  The door fits well along the fender and rocker.  It also fits fine along the quarter until you get up by the handle and then it sticks out from the quarter.  I don't see anyway to adjust the door to get the top edge in without throwing it out somewhere else.  Any suggestions on what to do?

 

 On the trunk I can get the left side of the trunk to align half way decent but the right side sits to high.  I don't see anyway of getting this to go down.  I have to press down really hard to get it to go down.  Is there a way to twist the lid so I can get it even across the back and then adjust the height? 

 

Thanks for any help or ideas.    

 

 

 

 

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Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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On the door, the adjustment you need to do is a door twist like you mentioned for the deck lid.  I am NOT a body man, but the body man who did mine confirmed that you need to tweak the doors with a twist.  Looks like you need a good top in bottom out on yours.  Mine needs the opposite.

 

Open the door, grab on and give her a tug.  Pull the lower lip while pushing the upper area above the door handle.

 

Kcmash

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Needing some guidance from the body shops guys out there.  First, I know the car was wrecked somewhere in its past.   Both of the rear quarter panels have been patch and the rear window / trunk cross member is not square to the top of the window frame.  1/2" difference from one side to the other.  The rear bumper has also bent and straighten out some.  

 

The two problems I'm having are aligning right side of the trunk and the passenger door at the top by the handle.  The door fits well along the fender and rocker.  It also fits fine along the quarter until you get up by the handle and then it sticks out from the quarter.  I don't see anyway to adjust the door to get the top edge in without throwing it out somewhere else.  Any suggestions on what to do?

 

 On the trunk I can get the left side of the trunk to align half way decent but the right side sits to high.  I don't see anyway of getting this to go down.  I have to press down really hard to get it to go down.  Is there a way to twist the lid so I can get it even across the back and then adjust the height? 

 

Thanks for any help or ideas.    

 

 

 

 

20200428-141211-resized-1.jpg

 

 

 

20200428-141239-resized.jpg

 

 

 

20200428-181333-resized.jpg

 

 

 

20200428-181335-resized.jpg

 

20200428-141202-resized.jpg

 

 

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Howdy sir :-)

I think I would make sure that you are not bottoming out on the high side. If you are then you can twist all day long and it wont get corrected. Was it possible that it was hit on that corner? If so then thats why its high. You will need to make space sort of speaking in order for it to nestle lower on the seal. Check that by putting a piece of paper in between there and shutting the trunk. will the paper slide out? if it wont then you have no space for the trunk to go any lower. 

By the way that car looks sharp!!

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I spoke to a manager at our local Ford dealer who has been doing this his whole life of 70+ years. He saw these when they were new. I mentioned my frustration about exactly your problem with the trunk lid. He told me bluntly that they were all that way. The picture of your car could easily be a picture of mine, right down to the color almost. I had to get in the trunk and have my Wife close the lid and press down the corner to even get it that good. You have a beautiful car !! Ed

P1012392.jpg

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On the door, the adjustment you need to do is a door twist like you mentioned for the deck lid.  I am NOT a body man, but the body man who did mine confirmed that you need to tweak the doors with a twist.  Looks like you need a good top in bottom out on yours.  Mine needs the opposite.

 

Open the door, grab on and give her a tug.  Pull the lower lip while pushing the upper area above the door handle.

 

Kcmash

 Sounds simple enough.  I'll give it a try and see what happens.  Really need the top to go in and the bottom to stay about the same - half twist.  :D

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Needing some guidance from the body shops guys out there.  First, I know the car was wrecked somewhere in its past.   Both of the rear quarter panels have been patch and the rear window / trunk cross member is not square to the top of the window frame.  1/2" difference from one side to the other.  The rear bumper has also bent and straighten out some.  

 

The two problems I'm having are aligning right side of the trunk and the passenger door at the top by the handle.  The door fits well along the fender and rocker.  It also fits fine along the quarter until you get up by the handle and then it sticks out from the quarter.  I don't see anyway to adjust the door to get the top edge in without throwing it out somewhere else.  Any suggestions on what to do?

 

 On the trunk I can get the left side of the trunk to align half way decent but the right side sits to high.  I don't see anyway of getting this to go down.  I have to press down really hard to get it to go down.  Is there a way to twist the lid so I can get it even across the back and then adjust the height? 

 

Thanks for any help or ideas.    

 

 

 

 

20200428-141211-resized-1.jpg

 

 

 

20200428-141239-resized.jpg

 

 

 

20200428-181333-resized.jpg

 

 

 

20200428-181335-resized.jpg

 

20200428-141202-resized.jpg

 

 

20200428-181358-resized.jpg

Howdy sir :-)

I think I would make sure that you are not bottoming out on the high side. If you are then you can twist all day long and it won't get corrected. Was it possible that it was hit on that corner? If so then thats why its high. You will need to make space sort of speaking in order for it to nestle lower on the seal. Check that by putting a piece of paper in between there and shutting the trunk. will the paper slide out? if it won't then you have no space for the trunk to go any lower. 

By the way that car looks sharp!!

  I can press it down but it takes a lot of force.  I am pushing the gasket down extremely tight.  Didn't know if there is a way to bend the inner lip along the gasket to allow that corner to close better. One other issue is the stripes. If I can't get a good body line across the back how do I adjust for the stripes? One problem leads to another as usual.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Needing some guidance from the body shops guys out there.  First, I know the car was wrecked somewhere in its past.   Both of the rear quarter panels have been patch and the rear window / trunk cross member is not square to the top of the window frame.  1/2" difference from one side to the other.  The rear bumper has also bent and straighten out some.  

 

The two problems I'm having are aligning right side of the trunk and the passenger door at the top by the handle.  The door fits well along the fender and rocker.  It also fits fine along the quarter until you get up by the handle and then it sticks out from the quarter.  I don't see anyway to adjust the door to get the top edge in without throwing it out somewhere else.  Any suggestions on what to do?

 

 On the trunk I can get the left side of the trunk to align half way decent but the right side sits to high.  I don't see anyway of getting this to go down.  I have to press down really hard to get it to go down.  Is there a way to twist the lid so I can get it even across the back and then adjust the height? 

 

Thanks for any help or ideas.    

 

 

 

 

20200428-141211-resized-1.jpg

 

 

 

20200428-141239-resized.jpg

 

 

 

20200428-181333-resized.jpg

 

 

 

20200428-181335-resized.jpg

 

20200428-141202-resized.jpg

 

 

20200428-181358-resized.jpg

Howdy sir :-)

I think I would make sure that you are not bottoming out on the high side. If you are then you can twist all day long and it won't get corrected. Was it possible that it was hit on that corner? If so then thats why its high. You will need to make space sort of speaking in order for it to nestle lower on the seal. Check that by putting a piece of paper in between there and shutting the trunk. will the paper slide out? if it won't then you have no space for the trunk to go any lower. 

By the way that car looks sharp!!

  I can press it down but it takes a lot of force.  I am pushing the gasket down extremely tight.  Didn't know if there is a way to bend the inner lip along the gasket to allow that corner to close better.  One other issue is the stripes.  If I can't get a good body line across the back how do I adjust for the stripes?  One problem leads to another as usual.

I was afraid of that. There isnt any space there to adjust it and get the body line that you desire. Never say never :-)  but in this case it will take a Tremendous amount of Finagaling to make it happen. Sorry

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I have mentioned in the past about being at the assembly plants during model change. They beat and bang and twist and bend the cars to make the fits better. Even today they do not just bolt them on. My son is the head quality guy on one assembly line at the BMW plant in S.C.. They hire really big and strong guys to work in the area where the lit gates go on so they can twist them to fit.

I have attached a picture of the door install station in 1965 later years similar. They bent and twisted the door to fit the quarters. The front edge of the doors where the hinges mount will flex and bend so you can get better fit but will never be perfect. Your body guy should have did the fit before paint. You have to put sand bag on door to equal the weight of the glass and other items in there. 

The door seals and trunk seal also has to take a set.

The trunk at the factory they have blocks covered in carpet or foam and they will put the block under the low side of the trunk and push down on the high side to twist to fit.

I have training booklets from Ford for older models on how to improve the fits if the customer complains. Some of the older models actually had crush zones in the panels to let them bend easier. They show lots of twisting and bending using pry bars and blocks.

THey actually make a tool for bending the door that hooks on the latch post on the door jam and goes into the end of the door at the latch. You lift or push down to move the door by bending it. Here is a link to the place I buy most of my supplies. I pulled up the door alignment tools. https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/search?keyword=door+alignment+tools&x=14&y=6

 

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When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Yeah, No argument that car doors and trunks, hoods are bent and twisted to adjust the hinges that are offset from one another. I have watched and done it many times. In this case with the trunk in question it has been logically checked and there is NO space for the bent side to go. Sure you can twist it and make both sides equally off. But it doesnt solve the issue of making it right.

So........ bend it to what and where is the question here?

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I have mentioned in the past about being at the assembly plants during model change. They beat and bang and twist and bend the cars to make the fits better. Even today they do not just bolt them on. My son is the head quality guy on one assembly line at the BMW plant in S.C.. They hire really big and strong guys to work in the area where the lit gates go on so they can twist them to fit.

I have attached a picture of the door install station in 1965 later years similar. They bent and twisted the door to fit the quarters. The front edge of the doors where the hinges mount will flex and bend so you can get better fit but will never be perfect. Your body guy should have did the fit before paint. You have to put sand bag on door to equal the weight of the glass and other items in there. 

The door seals and trunk seal also has to take a set.

The trunk at the factory they have blocks covered in carpet or foam and they will put the block under the low side of the trunk and push down on the high side to twist to fit.

I have training booklets from Ford for older models on how to improve the fits if the customer complains. Some of the older models actually had crush zones in the panels to let them bend easier. They show lots of twisting and bending using pry bars and blocks.

THey actually make a tool for bending the door that hooks on the latch post on the door jam and goes into the end of the door at the latch. You lift or push down to move the door by bending it. Here is a link to the place I buy most of my supplies. I pulled up the door alignment tools. https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/search?keyword=door+alignment+tools&x=14&y=6

 

0b2dfddca0ea182f42d4fccb603af42c.jpg

 Thanks for the good info and the link to the door tools.  My driver side hinge pins should be replaced.  I forgot to do it when I had them off and now am going to have to do sooner or later.  They are not all that bad but have a little movement when you shut the door.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Howdy sir :-)

I think I would make sure that you are not bottoming out on the high side. If you are then you can twist all day long and it won't get corrected. Was it possible that it was hit on that corner? If so then thats why its high. You will need to make space sort of speaking in order for it to nestle lower on the seal. Check that by putting a piece of paper in between there and shutting the trunk. will the paper slide out? if it won't then you have no space for the trunk to go any lower. 

By the way that car looks sharp!!

  I can press it down but it takes a lot of force.  I am pushing the gasket down extremely tight.  Didn't know if there is a way to bend the inner lip along the gasket to allow that corner to close better.  One other issue is the stripes.  If I can't get a good body line across the back how do I adjust for the stripes?  One problem leads to another as usual.

I was afraid of that. There isnt any space there to adjust it and get the body line that you desire. Never say never :-)  but in this case it will take a Tremendous amount of Finagaling to make it happen. Sorry

Sorry , I didnt answer your question.

Yes, you could bend that seal lip. However you would have to bend 1/2 of the whole seal lip to make it seal equally. A dead blow hammer accurately hitting the lip down will make space. I would leave this approach to the body shop in case they muck up the paint or break a weld.

Kilgon , Please P.M for additional questions.

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Here is what I would try relative to the trunk...

 

Remove the trunk latch and then slowly try to close your trunk lid and see if it will go down further. On one of my cars I had to elongate the holes in the trunk latch to let it slide a bit more and then was able to get trunk lid to fit better.

 

It also looks like you might have to or be able to slide the right hand side quarter panel end cap up a little to meet the trunk.

 

Let us know if this helps...

Jeff

1972 Q Code Convertible

 

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Here is what I would try relative to the trunk...

 

Remove the trunk latch and then slowly try to close your trunk lid and see if it will go down further. On one of my cars I had to elongate the holes in the trunk latch to let it slide a bit more and then was able to get trunk lid to fit better.

 

It also looks like you might have to or be able to slide the right hand side quarter panel end cap up a little to meet the trunk.

 

Let us know if this helps...

  I had to go just the opposite with the trunk catch after I put the seal on.  Had to elongate the holes to raise it to get the trunk to latch.  Going to look over one more time to make sure I'm not missing anything and then I'm going to try to bend the seal flange a little so that that corner will sit a little lower and get the rest from the quarter panel extension to get a decent line so the stripes look good.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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After another thorough going over I figured that the problem with the trunk was the gasket channel on the driver side.  As Machattack suggested I took a piece of paper and put in the trunk and slowly lower it.  It was hitting first on the driver side.  Looking along the bottom edge you could see that it was sticking up higher on that side.  The problem was how to bend it down without smashing the lip that holds the gaskets.  You can call me nuts but that is what I used.  Was able to place some nut in the channel and then used my flat jaw welding pliers to bend the channel flange without flatting the lip.  Worked out well.  Once I got the lid to fit okay on the passenger side I used a shim on the driver side to bring that side back up. The bottom corner driver side could use a small bend in but it will have to stay as is. Body shop will take care of the paint when I go back for my final touch up. Will tackle door next. Also, anyone know how to keep the "smile" out of the rear spoiler. I have taken it off several times and heated it up and got it to bend in the other direction but a couple of days later it always goes back. Any ideas other than buy a new one.

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Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Well you get the idea by now. GM also did it, they probably all did, both at the factory and the dealership. My dad had a new Pontiac Bonneville in '85 and complained about the passenger door not lining up correctly. They twisted it right in front of him at the dealer body shop and that was that. Quality in the 1970's was sometimes atrocious and there were multiple strikes, workers not happy. Some of these cars with low mileage will have the side stripes not lining up at each side of the door. They were built to be used / abused for a few years and then scrapped or traded for new models. That was the sales model of the car industry at that time. My parents who were very conservative and penny-pinchers had a new car every other year in the 1960's through 1980's. And they complained about each one until they went Japanese in the late 1980's. And that's what they're driving to this day (Honda / Nissan).

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After another thorough going over I figured that the problem with the trunk was the gasket channel on the driver side.  As Machattack suggested I took a piece of paper and put in the trunk and slowly lower it.  It was hitting first on the driver side.  Looking along the bottom edge you could see that it was sticking up higher on that side.  The problem was how to bend it down without smashing the lip that holds the gaskets.  You can call me nuts but that is what I used.  Was able to place some nut in the channel and then used my flat jaw welding pliers to bend the channel flange without flatting the lip.  Worked out well.  Once I got the lid to fit okay on the passenger side I used a shim on the driver side to bring that side back up. The bottom corner driver side could use a small bend in but it will have to stay as is. Body shop will take care of the paint when I go back for my final touch up.  Will tackle door next.  Also, anyone know how to keep the "smile" out of the rear spoiler.  I have taken it off several times and heated it up and got it to bend in the other direction but a couple of days later it always goes back.  Any ideas other than buy a new one.

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20200501-130217-resized.jpg

 

20200501-144113-resized.jpg

 

20200501-150104-resized.jpg

Nice job sir!!!  and You didnt have to pay anybody  :bravo:

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Is the spoiler a new after market or from 1970's ?  Thinking about its materials or compositions and what plan of attack.

 It was added somewhere along the way.  It is molded fiberglass.  If I use my heat gun and get it up to about 150 degrees I can get it to bend.  Have left it in a jig with clamps for several days.  It will retain the new shape for a few days but then return back to a smiley.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Huh, generally fiberglass will hold its shape well. heat from sun on the black and the way they are mounted tends to let it sag I suppose.

This will sound drastic but it will fix it for life.

Up in the country where you live are a great deal of machine shops. Some one local "hopefully" will have a line bore machine. The line bore machine can bore a very accurate hole length ways through the spoiler. you then can insert a 1/2" rod full length and epoxy it permanently in place. Repair the one end where you inserted the rod. I have not seen the center of of a spoiler. Hopefully its not foam filled? If so this approach probably wont work.

Another way would be to use a router or mill and route a channel on the bottom side then epoxy and mend the channel with fiberglass. Nobody would be the wiser on either repair.

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Is the spoiler a new after market or from 1970's ?  Thinking about its materials or compositions and what plan of attack.

 It was added somewhere along the way.  It is molded fiberglass.  If I use my heat gun and get it up to about 150 degrees I can get it to bend.  Have left it in a jig with clamps for several days.  It will retain the new shape for a few days but then return back to a smiley.

The Ford spoilers tended to warp

Did you happen to notice part numbers on the bottom of the pedestals when you had it off?

Ford spoilers were two halves joined together and are hollow

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It does look like you are gaining some. I could not see the air vent holes in the gasket on your trunk. Original gaskets and the better replacements have air vent holes so that the trunk shuts easier. Most people slammed them shut so Ford put holes in the tube to let air out. You can heat up a round nail of something and melt them. Here is pic you can see them in an original gasket.DSC-0953.jpg

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Huh, generally fiberglass will hold its shape well. heat from sun on the black and the way they are mounted tends to let it sag I suppose.

This will sound drastic but it will fix it for life.

Up in the country where you live are a great deal of machine shops. Some one local "hopefully" will have a line bore machine. The line bore machine can bore a very accurate hole length ways through the spoiler. you then can insert a 1/2" rod full length and epoxy it permanently in place. Repair the one end where you inserted the rod. I  have not seen the center of of a spoiler. Hopefully its not foam filled?  If so this approach probably won't work.

Another way would be to use a router or mill and route a channel on the bottom side then epoxy and mend the channel with fiberglass. Nobody would be the wiser on either repair.

 Great minds think alike.  I was thinking of routing a channel and inserting a small piece of T stock into it.  Will save for a later project.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Is the spoiler a new after market or from 1970's ?  Thinking about its materials or compositions and what plan of attack.

 It was added somewhere along the way.  It is molded fiberglass.  If I use my heat gun and get it up to about 150 degrees I can get it to bend.  Have left it in a jig with clamps for several days.  It will retain the new shape for a few days but then return back to a smiley.

The Ford spoilers tended to warp

Did you happen to notice part numbers on the bottom of the pedestals when you had it off?

Ford spoilers were two halves joined together and are hollow

 Don't recall seeing any numbers but wasn't really looking for them.  Will check next time I have off.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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