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Hello,

I am new to the whole classic car world. After saving my whole teaching career for a classic, I fell in love with a '73 Mustang Convertible 351w 3 speed automatic that was mostly restored and went all in to get the beauty, back in January. I am also blessed with a friend who is always rebuilding a car, so he has been helping me out since my last car I worked on was in college ('84 Plymouth Duster).  

 

My question:

I need a new starter. I see some remanufactured from places like O'Reilly's and such places for less that $70. I also see some like Powermaster and other on websites for around $290. Some say it doesn't matter and don't over pay, other say to get the better one. After talking to some people I hear mixed feeling about going either way, so I thought I would come here with people that actually own a Mustang for your all's opinion. 

 

Any help and input would be appreciated. 

 

IMG-1379.jpg

John 

Winter Garden, Florida

1973 Mustang Convertible 

"Do or do not; there is no try."

-Master Yoda

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Be sure of what motor you have. They never were offered with a 351w in 71-73. They were offered with 302w and 351c. Nice looking ride.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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Welcome to the forum from Idaho. Your car will turn some heads :-)

 

As 73 pony says.......make sure its a 351 Windsor and  not a Cleveland. 

My 71 mach had a engine swap when I bought it. It had a 351 Windsor in it. Took me forever to figure that out. I kept buying parts and they wouldnt fit. Felt so damn stupid when I returned them to Orielys saying they dont fit :-) I finally figured it out by the water pump, valve cover bolts and deck height of the heads.

 

By the way the engine gauge harness wont fit right either. Mine was all hacked up to make it fit a Windsor.

 

Starter question......... Paying more usually means they are better. Especially the high torque starters.  If its a stock engine and not modified with higher compression?  you can go with the cheaper mid range unit.

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If you buy starter from auto parts store you may be disappointed, typically foreign products. If you have originally equipped starter then find a shop to rebuild it. The cost will be less and you will have better part.

 

Not long ago my alternator failed, I inspected part available at local auto parts store and discovered it was produced in china -- casting looked terrible. I found a local shop to repair my OEM part.

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1971 Mustang

Grabber Lime with black deluxe interior

302 engine with C-4 transmission and 9" rear end with 3.50 gears

 

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Welcome from west Michigan. I love your car, from one yellow convertible guy to another.

 

I've used both types of starters with much success. You don't need to spend the money on a powermaster. for most cruiser/driver applications the standard Bendix works great. Most parts stores are very good at standing behind their stuff. I tend to like NAPA it seems to be a bit better quality.

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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Welcome to the Forum from North Carolina. It has already been mentioned that 71 - 73 mustangs did not come with a 351 Windsor engine only the 351 Cleveland. There were Mustangs made in Mexico with the 351 Windsor but no convertibles built there. 

Now you will have to go find the yellow Mustang group and join there also, lol.

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When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Welcome from northern California.

 

I got a high torque starter from Summit.

Would go through at least one starter per year.

Your standard starter could not handle the

compression of my Cleveland.

 

mike

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Thanks for all the help and the welcome to the site. I was excited to find this forum.

 

When I bought the car the paperwork said it was a 351w and I took it for granted. I ran the VIN last night and it said it should have a 6 cyl. So it looks like it it did have an engine swap long ago since it doesn't look recent at all After lots of googling it looks to be a 351c that was placed in it.

 

Thanks for the heads up as I am learning. After teaching and coaching so long you get very comfortable and always seem to know what is going on- this is a rare occasion to be having to learning so much and feeling a little lost! it is humbling...but fun!

 

i am glad to have somewhere to come for advice and help. Thanks all!

 

John

Winter Garden, Florida

John 

Winter Garden, Florida

1973 Mustang Convertible 

"Do or do not; there is no try."

-Master Yoda

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Hello jep1701,

Don't be concerned with not knowing exactly what engine is in your car. Unless you are the original owner you have no idea what has happened to your vehicle. And until your vert has had a couple of drinks it's not going to tell you. The 351W almost disappeared from the land after the 351C came out in 1970. After the last of the 335 engines (351M, 400) was installed in the E and F series trucks in '82, the 351W once again was the midsize go-to engine. So with such a plentiful and cheap supply of 351W engines to choose from, you can bet plenty of them were transplanted in many different vehicles.

 There are several ways to check the difference between the two engines. I like to keep it simple since some people here have had no previous Ford experience. And...you can do this with your hands in your pockets. Count the valve cover bolts, the 351C has 8 bolts and the 351W has 6. The mounting bolts on the 351C fuel pump are vertical while the bolts on the 351W pump are horizontal.

 

And...by the way....Hello and welcome to your new Mustang home!

 

9350-c-w-2.jpg

Steve

 

No Officer...I really don't know how fast I was going, my speedometer stopped at 140!

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One more way to tell, the upper radiator hose thermostat housing sticks straight up out of the block in the Clevelands and comes out of the front of the intake manifold in Windsors. Clevelands have a "dry" intake manifold with the coolant passage crossover in the block and on Windsors the coolant crossover is through the intake manifold.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Be sure of what motor you have. They never were offered with a 351w in 71-73. They were offered with 302w and 351c. Nice looking ride.

 

According to Ultimate American V-8 Engine Data Book the 351W and 302 were in teh Mustangs, Torinos, Montego and Cougars.

 

Difference - 351 Windsors use a timing chain cover and the Clevelands' blocks were extended to include the timing chain.

Thanks

 

Tim

Tucson, Az

1973 SportsRoof

351C bored .040

Crank .020  and Stock cam

Flattop pistons

Edelbrock 4bbl CARB 800 CFM ELEC CHOKE

Edelbrock Performer 2750 Intake Manifold

 

NewPrimedHood_zpsw2jaj0cu.jpg

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Be sure of what motor you have. They never were offered with a 351w in 71-73. They were offered with 302w and 351c. Nice looking ride.

 

According to Ultimate American V-8 Engine Data Book the 351W and 302 were in teh Mustangs, Torinos, Montego and Cougars.

 

Difference - 351 Windsors use a timing chain cover and the Clevelands' blocks were extended to include the timing chain.

 

No 351w in the 71-3 Mustang’s.

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"Yes dear", has kept me in the hobby a long time...

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Be sure of what motor you have. They never were offered with a 351w in 71-73. They were offered with 302w and 351c. Nice looking ride.

 

According to Ultimate American V-8 Engine Data Book the 351W and 302 were in teh Mustangs, Torinos, Montego and Cougars.

 

Difference - 351 Windsors use a timing chain cover and the Clevelands' blocks were extended to include the timing chain.

 

No 351w in the 71-3 Mustang’s.

+1

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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Well I don't know any 351W in a 1973, the book could be wrong.

 

1971 302 and 351W were available for the Ford Mustang (page 162)

1972 302 and 351W were available for the Ford Mustang (page 162)

1973 shows the same

Those were the Ford 90-degree V8s 1964-1995 (221, 255, 260, 289, 302 and 351 Windsor

 

For the Cleveland (which I believe is the 335 Series) 351 and 400 that included the Boss 351, Cobra jet 351, 351 HO and the 400 and 351m. (pages 170-171)

Of course the Boss was Mustang only, 3 versions of the 351 were available in 1973 including the CJ and both 1971 and 1972 show 3 versions of the 351 for Mustang including the HO and CJ.

 

Look at the engine and run the numbers to be sure. It wouldn't be the first time there were some oddities in reference manuals or real life - or a swap after the fact. My 1973 started out as 302 some where along the road a 1972 351C was plopped under the hood. NOT SAD ABOUT THAT!

 

Tim

Thanks

 

Tim

Tucson, Az

1973 SportsRoof

351C bored .040

Crank .020  and Stock cam

Flattop pistons

Edelbrock 4bbl CARB 800 CFM ELEC CHOKE

Edelbrock Performer 2750 Intake Manifold

 

NewPrimedHood_zpsw2jaj0cu.jpg

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Your book is wrong. There was NEVER a 351W offered in the 71-73 mustangs.

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73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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Your book is wrong. There was NEVER a 351W offered in the 71-73 mustangs.

 

No offense intended but where does that information come from?

 

1. It's not my book it's produced by Peter C. Sessler.

2. Peter Sessler is a Classic Car and Muscle Car expert with a recognizable name in the field, and has written more than 40 books over the past 22 years. He has also been Editor-in-Chief of MuscleCars magazine and has personally restored a 1968 Shelby GT 350 and two 1969 Boss 429 Mustangs as well as other muscle cars

Other books:

Mustang Red Book 1964 1/2...

2000

Ford Mustang Red Book (2015)

Ford Mustang Red Book

2015

Ford Mustang Red Book: Specifications, Options, Production Numbers, Data Codes and More (2015)

Ford Mustang Red Boo...

2015

Ultimate American V-8 Engine Data Book 1949-74 (1999)

Ultimate American V‑8 Engi...

1999

Camaro & Firebird Performance Handbook (1993)

Camaro & Firebird Perform...

1993

 

Tim

Thanks

 

Tim

Tucson, Az

1973 SportsRoof

351C bored .040

Crank .020  and Stock cam

Flattop pistons

Edelbrock 4bbl CARB 800 CFM ELEC CHOKE

Edelbrock Performer 2750 Intake Manifold

 

NewPrimedHood_zpsw2jaj0cu.jpg

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Never heard of the guy, I'm sure he's prob a smart guy. But if he is publishing that a 351W was offered in a 71-73 mustang he is wrong. They were put in the knockdown kits sent to Mexico for assembly but never offered other than those MX kits. This is directly from ford literature from the time (widely available) as well as the rest of the collective knowledge on this site.

 

Engines available were....

straight 6

351C (multiple variants of the three year period)

1971

M-Code

Q-Code late in the model year

H-Code

R-Code (IE BOSS)

1972

Q-Code

H-Code

R-Code (slightly different than the 71 Boss)

1973

Q-Code

H-Code

429 (only offered in 1971)

 

Hope this helps clear it up. And no offense taken.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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Peter should buff up on the 71-73’s then, cause he’s wrong! There were 6 cylinder, 302, 351 Cleveland and 429 engines available in the 71-73 Mustangs and that’s it.

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John - 72 Q Code

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Welcome from Germany.

 

Congratulations for your new old ride and that you have found this forum with all its knowledge.

 

I've followed the discussion about 351W or 351C in your car. Whether it's the one (351C most likely) or the other (351W as a result of an engine swap), please don't purchase any new starter crap. Get your old starter repaired. Usually it's just a pair of coals and a bearing.

 

Cheers Frank

1972 Mach 1, 351C-2V, wimbledon white, blue all vinyl luxury

born in Dearborn, grown in the district of San José, spent a lifetime in California, moved to Germany in 2010

Mustang_Mach1_wallpaper_300_150.jpg proud member of clublogozusammen.JPG.59fb4a10d15cfff9ec756235059135b8.JPG

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Your book is wrong. There was NEVER a 351W offered in the 71-73 mustangs.

 

No offense intended but where does that information come from?

 

1.  It's not my book it's produced by  Peter C. Sessler.

 

Tim

 

 

Peter is wrong and many other published books are wrong. I'm certain there's also a "500lb weight gain for 71" statement somewhere in that book, which is also wrong.

 

The 351W was first offered in the Mustang & Cougar starting in 1969 in both 2V and 4V versions. In 1970, it was only offered in the Mustang & Cougar in a 2V version, but only for first part of the production year. All 1970 in the Mustang & Cougar 351-4V engines were Clevelands. I don't know the exact date, but the 2V engine in the Mustang & Cougar was then switched to the 351C when production capacity caught up with demand. 351W were used primarily in the full size lines in the early 70s.

 

As far as the 71-73 Mustang & Cougars, no 351W was ever used or offered. A simple way to verify that is the 65-72 Ford MPC listing of the water outlet, which we know is very different between a 351W and 351C.

 

Model column "F" is Mustang.

 

modelcolumn.jpg

 

You can see that in 1970, the 351W is clearly labelled, highlighted in yellow, as is the 351C, bracketed in red. The 351W and 302 share the same water outlet, the 351C is completely different. For '71-up, only the 302 uses that water outlet. All the 351s - in the Mustang - use the 351C outlet, so they are all 351C engines. 

 

wateroutlet.jpg

 

 

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Sorry but the books are correct.  This will be the third error I've discovered with "original' data  that as provided by Ford at the time these cars were produced.  Research has updated a lot of what was originally published.

 

Just this past week it was proven that production number for the 1971-1973 Mustangs were printed incorrectly leading to a large discrepancy in how many of each body code was produced.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.   It's hard to image that this forums has more knowledge then the "experts" but that is not impossible.

Thanks

 

Tim

Tucson, Az

1973 SportsRoof

351C bored .040

Crank .020  and Stock cam

Flattop pistons

Edelbrock 4bbl CARB 800 CFM ELEC CHOKE

Edelbrock Performer 2750 Intake Manifold

 

NewPrimedHood_zpsw2jaj0cu.jpg

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I'll throw my hat in the ring, no U.S. built 71-73 Mustangs came with a 351 Windsor engine.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Early in the thread I talked about my 71 mach 1 that I purchased and it had a 351 windsor in it. It took me at least a week to figure out this aint right. The seller told me it was the original engine to the car when I bought it. The seller lied to me. I found the original owner of the car from the title he didnt transfer over. I hand wrote a letter to him asking for more parts if he had any? He actually wrote back to my amazement and told me he didnt have any and the original 351 c engine was given to the guy I bought the car from. That Sneaky @#$%^& . So I called him out on it. Told him the 351c engine was serial numbered to the car. Told him he had 48 hours to get that motor to me or I would report it as stolen. I'll be damned if the engine didnt show up in my drive in the middle of the night by a courier service.

So....... I did a lot of studying on this subject a year ago. I vote No 351w was put in a 71 mach in the USA from the factory.

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It is crazy how wrong some of the experts get their information. I just happened to have a copy of the Ford car shop manual for 1972 laying here by the computer. Volume II if for all engines used in the cars. According to the Ford repair manual in 1972 there were 19 variations of engines used in the whole Ford Car line Trucks not included. NO FORD CAR MADE IN THE USA HAD A 351 W. The listing of the engines used can be found in section 20-00-03. The only 351 C.I. engines listed are the H code and Q code both Cleveland builds.

Some way I ended up with 8 351 C Mustangs of the 72 & 73 model years. 

There are errors in the Ford service manuals for 1973 Which refers to HO & CJ 351 C Which were never installed in 73. Manuals were written and then production change made. 

Again in 1973 the number of engines for CARS ONLY is 12 variations so down from 1972 and again NO 351 W LISTED FOR ANY FORD CARS FOR 1973. This was taken from a chart in the Volume 3 Electrical manual section 30-01-03.

I do not have any 1971 so I have no manuals for them. 

I have never had any reference materials that ever showed the 351 W in a 1971 - 1973 Mustang would like to know where he got his info obviously incorrect.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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