Jump to content

Thoughts on this 429? I'm considering it.


Recommended Posts

A quick look at 5 pictures and the write up and then I walked.... They can’t even get the 5th digit of the VIN correct.... The paint and exterior finishes are incorrect. Enough for me to say not for that coin....

"Yes dear", has kept me in the hobby a long time...

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, 7173Vert said:

A quick look at 5 pictures and the write up and then I walked.... They can’t even get the 5th digit of the VIN correct.... The paint and exterior finishes are incorrect. Enough for me to say not for that coin....

I am no expert on 429's, but I wouldn't pay 72K US for that car either. With all the wrong stuff I saw in a quick look through, what else is wrong? Unfortunately some sucker will haggle the guy down to 65K and think he got a deal.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I must be missing the gold bars somewhere.  I looked really hard but couldn't find them.  You also have to remember it's a 1 of 1!!!! :lollerz:

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

Link to post
Share on other sites

First thing I noticed was the rocker moldings, why are they there? Given the badges, I can see the owner adding them, but that's a big red flag for me. Makes me want to check stamping date codes and shock tower stamps for VIN verification. Honestly, for that money, you should be doing that anyway. 

Looks like some "undercoat detailing" was done to hide the less than pretty welds and repairs on the floors. Bummer they changed out the Vermillion interior. Lots of things pop out as not quite right and make me think "rebody". 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yeah I was considering offering 60-65 for this white car, maybe not now.  Please point out all that’s wrong with it.

 

in the mean time...there is an alternative.  
 

the seller says this car was restored in the 90’s and changed to red, originally light pewter.  They added factory AC during the restoration, not original.  They claim the power windows are correct.  Like the above car, it is a presumed original J Code, 4speed Mach1.  This car has 3.50 gears vs 3.25’s which I think I’d prefer.  
 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/ford/mustang/2410816.html

Edited by USAFPILOT
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 7173Vert said:

A quick look at 5 pictures and the write up and then I walked.... They can’t even get the 5th digit of the VIN correct.... The paint and exterior finishes are incorrect. Enough for me to say not for that coin....

Totally agree. If these things are wrong, they will only be the start of a longer list. I would keep looking.

Bookend 71 b1, scj convertible.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, USAFPILOT said:

Yeah I was considering offering 60-65 for this white car, maybe not now.  Please point out all that’s wrong with it.

 

in the mean time...there is an alternative.  
 

the seller says this car was restored in the 90’s and changed to red, originally light pewter.  They added factory AC during the restoration, not original.  They claim the power windows are correct.  Like the above car, it is a presumed original J Code, 4speed Mach1.  This car has 3.50 gears vs 3.25’s which I think I’d prefer.  
 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/ford/mustang/2410816.html

 

I'd be more inclined to look at car #2. Looks like a cleaner restoration. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

. ****ORIGINAL *** ONLY ORIGINAL ONCE**NEW OR REBUILT PARTS- RESTORATION**

The opening line tells you to RUN AWAY  ... original ... only original once and then they say  here is the list of new parts

 

  • Like 1

Ohio Mustang Supply

440-949-2556

 

oms_sig_banner.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's like the 1967 James Bond film- "You Only Live Twice".  This car was original twice.  lol  Where did they get that $120K that is crossed out below the $72.9K.  Crazy.  As others have stated this car has a lot of things incorrect and should be way less.  It's only saving grace would be if the drive-line is numbers-matching to the chassis.  I recall seeing additional 429 emblems on the Torino Cobra, but these are a joke.  My numbers-matching 429 CJ-R 4 speed car also has factory power windows.  I guess it's also a one of one.  ;)  I also like how the engine specs decal is where the rev limiter is supposed to go.

The Hemmings car on the other hand is gorgeous, assuming things check out.  Perhaps in this market they would come down a little, but the price is not out of line for this car.  Says power windows and locks, and I'm not sure i ever saw power locks available (might be wrong).  Has the rev limiter in the correct spot, not sure if it's functional or not.  AC, now that's what my car really needs for summer driving.  Rochester carb, nice, I'll bet most were tossed (mine was).

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, donkost said:

  My numbers-matching 429 CJ-R 4 speed car also has factory power windows.  I guess it's also a one of one.  ;)  I also like how the engine specs decal is where the rev limiter is supposed to go.

The Hemmings car on the other hand is gorgeous, assuming things check out.  Perhaps in this market they would come down a little, but the price is not out of line for this car.  Says power windows and locks, and I'm not sure i ever saw power locks available (might be wrong).  Has the rev limiter in the correct spot, not sure if it's functional or not.  AC, now that's what my car really needs for summer driving.  Rochester carb, nice, I'll bet most were tossed (mine was).

Power windows on a J code, I remember back in 2008, when I started to seriously look for replacement for the 72 Q code Mach 1 I sold, I saw a listing for a 71 J code Mach 1, don't remember who it was now, but the the feature point was "1 of 1 with power windows" . Wonder where they got that nugget? It was way above my price point anyway, so I never called about it.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Noticed that the Red Hemmings car has a "Fasten Seat Belt" light on passengers dash and this wasn't available until late 1972...

Contact me direct at ib4stangs@yahoo.com for photos or with your zip code for a shipping quote...thanx, Pat

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Stanglover said:

Power windows on a J code, I remember back in 2008, when I started to seriously look for replacement for the 72 Q code Mach 1 I sold, I saw a listing for a 71 J code Mach 1, don't remember who it was now, but the the feature point was "1 of 1 with power windows" . Wonder where they got that nugget? It was way above my price point anyway, so I never called about it.

Kevin Marti, who else....

Kevin can make the lowliest of stripper cars a "1 of 1" when you pay his "Ego Tax" and opt for the Elite Report. 

  

3 minutes ago, ib4stangs said:

Noticed that the Red Hemmings car has a "Fasten Seat Belt" light on passengers dash and this wasn't available until late 1972...

I saw that, chalked it up to the added A/C system and they probably used the trim out of the donor car. 

 

  • Like 1

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/15/2020 at 8:56 AM, Hemikiller said:

Lots of things pop out as not quite right and make me think "rebody". 

Agreed.

Ray C

1971 Boss 351  

1972 Q code 4 speed convertible 

1971 Mustang Sportsroof  351-2V FMX 

1971 Hardtop (parts car)

1973 Mach 1 (parts car)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just like in the movie "Used Cars" with Kurt Russell,  the white shoe wearing, fast talkin' salesmen have always been around. Now with the internet at the world's disposal, cars with "Borrowed Pictures" and only original once cars with a yard-long list of changes, vetting of these gems are more important than ever!
With the rocker panel moldings, lower accent body-color molding, plus the Hockey stick stripes and additional 429 emblems, things were starting to get a little busy on this one. The 429 designation only appears five times!! The fender emblems appear to be from Shelbys accessory "Dress me up like A Ho" dept. The one on the deck lid (Boot for our European brothers) is robbed from the '79/ medium-duty truck 600, 700, 800 series. Ford didn't even use 351 for the ram air decal on the '71 Boss since it was already proclaimed on the fender. As mentioned by donkost, there were lower fender engine emblems on the Torino but only on the '70 and was any model that had a 351 or 429. (And....only one on each fender, total)

When you advertise a car for $120,000 or 72,900, it should be a turn-key concourse level car that needs nothing. Too many small things that are not right and prob plenty of larger discrepancies waiting to be discovered. The interior color change on any 429 or Boss car should be left up to the end-user and not the "White Shoe" car sales dept! 
As Hemikiller stated, a rebody comes to mind also. A very thorough inspection of engine/transmission and fender VINS is more than warranted.

The red Hemmings Mach1 appears to be a more realistically priced car and doesn't appear to be as "Massaged" as the white Mach1.
The locks feature donkost mentioned would be the 5th button on the driver's master window control switch. The '71-72s used a switch sourced from the '69 full-size Ford that had a lock feature that disabled all the window switches. This was a useful feature on 4door vehicles where you didn't want the kiddies falling out of your car while on the way to Wally World!
The right side seat belt light could be a result of a complete dashboard swap from a part donor '72 or as Hemikiller suggested a trim piece that was acquired from a '72 during the AC conversion. The light was production installed starting 12/1/71 for all '72 Mustangs and continued through the end of  1973 production. 

Steve

 

No Officer...I really don't know how fast I was going, my speedometer stopped at 140!

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, secluff said:

The locks feature donkost mentioned would be the 5th button on the driver's master window control switch. The '71-72s used a switch sourced from the '69 full-size Ford that had a lock feature that disabled all the window switches. This was a useful feature on 4door vehicles where you didn't want the kiddies falling out of your car while on the way to Wally World!

Yes I just went out to the garage and mine has that 5th button "Lock".  I always assumed it was to lock out the other window controls, since that feature is even on our modern-day Navigator, and likely many other vehicles.  The Hemmings red car ad states "Power Windows & Locks", so perhaps there was some confusion there.  I don't believe that 5th button is for power door locks, or is it?  I pressed it with the car off and the door locks didn't move.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/15/2020 at 10:48 AM, USAFPILOT said:

the seller says this car was restored in the 90’s and changed to red, originally light pewter.  They added factory AC during the restoration, not original.  They claim the power windows are correct.  Like the above car, it is a presumed original J Code, 4speed Mach1.  This car has 3.50 gears vs 3.25’s which I think I’d prefer.  
 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/ford/mustang/2410816.html

Do you mean the Hemmings car was changed to red from light pewter?  The door tag shows color code 3, which is bright red.  So maybe it was that different color and they restored it back to the original bright red?  Also, the axle code on the door tag is A, which is a 3.50 conventional axle.  Could have been changed at some point to a Traction-Lok axle of course.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just some clarity needed in their description. The 5th button is for locking out all window switches to be non-functional until the driver turns them back on. There was not a production installed power door lock option for the 71-73 Mustang or Cougar. The first year such an option became available on the Mustang was 1979.

Depending on the vendor you choose, the door certification labels can be made to indicate whatever you want them to show. The label shown in the Hemmings add is incorrect for an early 71 Mustang. The word "Manufactured" should be spelled out at the top of the label, not abbreviated "MFD". At the bottom, there should be "Not For Title or Registration" and "Made in USA". All missing from the label on the Hemmings car. The certification label shown in the photo is from my Money Pit #2 which is a 9/70 built 71 Mach 1, is original and shows what the label should look like.
At this point obtaining a Marti report would be a good idea for anyone contemplating a purchase of any of these vehicles. The basic report @ $18.00 would give you enough info to at least show how it left the assembly plant. Sure would help to make a better-informed decision while listening to all the "Chin Music" from these sellers!

 

 

cert lable-1.jpg

Steve

 

No Officer...I really don't know how fast I was going, my speedometer stopped at 140!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the Marti report and photos of the restoration the current owner has in my computer at home.  It says it should be light pewter.  Personally I like the red ones, so color doesn’t bother me.  I just want to know it is the real deal.  He claims it’s the original drive train, and the original car.  
 

that’s an interesting tidbit about the fasten seat belt light.  I know my Moms 71 convertible has a belts light on the drivers side.  Belts and something else, two little red lights that fall off all the time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

with the 3:50 conventional rear end, will only one tire spin  when it loses traction?  It’s not a traction lock rear end is it?

Edited by USAFPILOT
Link to post
Share on other sites

it was not a traction lock differential, from the factory.  And yes,  it'll quickly burn the rubber off the right rear tire, unless a previous owner added some form of locking differential.

Edited by Don C

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The deluxe seat belt option (standard on the verts) included the seat belt warning lamp on the left lower side of the dash board. To avoid redundancy, the left side lamp was eliminated when the federally mandated light/buzzer went into production on the Mustang line 12/1/71. The other lamp you referenced is a park brake warning lamp which was part of the convenience group option. It included trunk, glove compartment, map, under hood lamps, head light on warning buzzer, automatic seat back release, under instrument panel courtesy lamps (standard on vert), park brake warning lamp, and glove box lock. Even in 2020 dollars, this option at $51.00 was an absolute bargain!   

As posted by Don C, the red Hemmings Mach 1 was not equipped with a locking differential. The Marti report would of shown Axle, Traction Lok if so equipped. Strange that the car was a retail/special order but the customer did not order traction lok considering  the torque the  429 was rated at. Until I added a locking differential to my 71 M code Mach 1, I could ruin the right rear tire in one night!

Also need to correct my earlier post on the certification label. I did not pay attention to the 12/70 build date. During November '70 production the label was changed to remove the Made in USA and "Not For Title or Registration" and Manufactured changed to "MFG". This was done to avoid the need for different labels for Canadian built vehicles across the entire product line. 

Steve

 

No Officer...I really don't know how fast I was going, my speedometer stopped at 140!

Link to post
Share on other sites

That white car is pitiful as being called a restoration. They did not even take the car apart to pain. Screws in door latches painted. Nothing under hood detailed correct. Wrong door speaker grills. There is more wrong on the car than right.It would cost over $60,000 additional to make it much closer and even then it would only be worth about $70,000 at best. Remember one of our members bought a 429 off ebay for $27,500 that was way more rare model. 
To restore any of our cars to concourse will cost way more than they will ever sell for. Correct parts and labor just make it impossible today. 

 

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

About Us

7173Mustangs.com is a community forum designed especially for fans and owners of the 1971, 1972 and 1973 Ford Mustang! We are not affiliated with Ford Motor Company in any way.

7173logo_small.png

Site Info

Founded:
July 2010

By:
Webfinity Design

From:
Latrobe, PA

×
×
  • Create New...