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An interesting and informative video from Eaton Detroit Springs


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Each week, I get the latest 1 minute video along with some others from Eaton Detroit Springs. Recently, there was discussion about cutting and lowering front coil springs. There has also been many que

I can confirm the February release date for the revised 990 rear sway bar. I spoke with Addco on Nov. 27th. Despite their website talking about "all 990s currently in stock", they admitted they actual

I just learned more than I ever wanted to know about springs. Really that was pretty interesting. Mike

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I'm glad people are getting something good from the video. Personally, after my experience with cheapo springs, I now see the value in buying quality. I too will be buying a set of (hopefully) Eaton Boss 153lb leaf springs for mine, once the border finally opens and I can go and pick up a set.

I might suggest for anybody interested, sign up for the weekly 1 minute video and other interesting stuff from Eaton Detroit Springs.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I spoke to these guys and they were very helpful a few months ago. I'm going with their standard spring with the 1 inch height option.  I want my vert to be level. I did some measurements based on the Ford's spec's and I'm about 3/4 lower in the back. 

Edited by cv_72mustang
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For the Ontario members looking for Eaton Detroit Springs springs. Today I called Eaton D S to enquire if there was an Ontario distributor being as the border is closed for at least another month if not longer. I need new springs soon as those crappy Grab-a-Trak are now reversing on themselves. Shipping would be a killer, BUT luckily Eaton do have a distributor in Windsor Ontario. So, if you're in the market for the best replacement springs, leaf or coil, you can contact Glen at JH Restorations; www.jhrstorations.ca or email jhrestoglen@gmail.com The price he quoted me in Can dollars is about the same as if I went over the border to get them myself from either Eaton or NPD. (they're quite close to one another in Canton Mi.) I will need to drive to Windsor to pick them up when they arrive, but that's only a 45 min trip each way, so biggy. By the way, I ordered  ML1823 Boss 351 leaf springs at 152 lbs spring rate as suggested being as I have the 7/8" anti-sway bar. The GTA's are supposed to be 175 lbs spring rate, so we'll see I guess if there is much difference. The ML 1823's will be made to order. Stock ML1481's  (138 lbs) are usually in stock.

For others outside Ontario, I suggest you call 1-313-963-3839 as there might be a distributor in your area.

https://jhrestorations.ca/

 

Edited by Stanglover

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I have no idea how many, if any, signed up for Eaton Detroit Springs weekly 1 minute video email. I must admit, some are a bit corny, but others contain valuable information when we are installing or do other spring and suspension work. Here is this weeks 1 minute video on correctly finishing a spring install. 

 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I watch them all. They are short and instructive.

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20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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Well, today I picked up my new Eaton Boss leaf springs. Now I must wait a couple more days to install them, but hopefully before the weekend as the weather is supposed to be nice and I'd like to get the car out for a test drive. Sorry to say, I'm a victim of my own inability to slow down and now getting muscle spasms in my lower back after staining the new pool deck. Very painful at times, makes me walk like an old man!! Hopefully the wife will decide to go shopping or something so I can do the job without getting nattered at. I'll update once the springs are in. It will be interesting to see how the ass end sits compared to it's current level. If it's too low, Eaton make 1" longer shackles for that reason, but that will be next spring before I will get those in. 

Stay tuned folks.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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get the wife a gift card?:whistling:

Wisdom, knowledge and intelligence are three very different things.

1971 convertible, H-code, Ram Air

1971 Mach I, M-code, Ram Air

1988 Bronco II

2014 F150 Supercrew

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So, today I was able to convince the wife that my back no longer hurts...... much. I decided to finally get those Eaton Boss 351 springs in. Before I started I measured the center wheel arch heights with 14" rims and BFG 245-60-R14 tires. Right side was 25 5/8", Left side was 25 3/8", so a 1/4" lower. As these old springs had been in and out when I did the axle rebuild, it took longer to jack the car up safely than do the job, or at least that's what it seemed like. As per Eaton video, I did one side at a time and only partially tightening the new Eaton U Bolts until under full weight. It all went in very easily, just took my time so as not to f up my back again or I would never hear the end of it if I did!

So once installed and the U bolts torqued to spec, I took the old girl (car that is) out for a quick run around the block. I was very impressed with the ride considering this is a Mach 1 with a 7/8" anti-sway bar and Gas-A-Just shocks. It was firm, but softer than the Grab-A-Track's I took out. A good comparison is a bit hard to give with those GAT's screwed up, but all in all, I'm very happy with the ride. Once I get a few miles on them and all re-torqued, I'll run it hard on my fav curved road and see how it handles. As for the ride height, left  and right side was 26 1/4", so up about 7/8" and it looks way better. I expect it might settle somewhat, but I think for now it's all good.

Any questions?

Edit; So, today I got the car out for a decent drive so I can re-torque every thing. Here's a pic of how it sits now with the Boss 351 springs, which by the way, I really like.

New springs.JPG

Edited by Stanglover
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Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Two things; Although not in a hurry, next spring will be fine, but as others have mentioned, gas shocks are not the best choice on our cars. Eaton also suggest oil damped shocks. So the question is; what do you guys like on a Mach 1? I'm not looking to spend a fortune, so no exotic stuff. I'm thinking Monroe or similar.

Second, here is this weeks 1 minute video from Eaton. 

 

 

Edited by Stanglover

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I got my springs done a few weeks ago. I ended up getting the Dayton "Performance handling" springs, and I have to say I really like how the car feels now. Even with the Gas shocks in it(But my last project car was a STI with crap coil overs) I am thrilled with how the rear end of the car is feeling. I think if anything I may just upgrade the OE sway bar, and then head to the front end. 

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1 hour ago, MKSpeedlab said:

I got my springs done a few weeks ago. I ended up getting the Dayton "Performance handling" springs, and I have to say I really like how the car feels now. Even with the Gas shocks in it(But my last project car was a STI with crap coil overs) I am thrilled with how the rear end of the car is feeling. I think if anything I may just upgrade the OE sway bar, and then head to the front end. 

 Ah, so you were able to get the Dayton's you were talking about. Glad they're working well for you. I was not sure about the quality, so that's why I chose Eaton. Besides, as you have read, I could get them almost locally and at about the same cost as if I went to Detroit and picked them up, so a win, win for me.

Adding a 7/8" rear anti-sway bar will make a huge difference, but again. what to buy. IF Addco have finally put the correct a/sway bar the jpaz had them make, into production, then that is what I'd get. I do NOT like the so-called correct one they currently sell for the 71-73's. It is about 1 1/2" too wide (3/4" per side) and the mount area is on a curve. I am going to look into changing mine later along with shocks. Below is a couple of pics to show what I mean. Not the best angle, but I think you can see the offset and the mount bracket right at the curve.

Rear sway bar.JPG

IMG_1530.JPG

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I would just suggest that you not build your car for 1% or your use. If you run track days and autocross weekly then go all out. If not you will hate the harsh ride for the 99% of the time in the car. 

 

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Adding a stiffer sway bar is not necessarily better. First of all, unfortunately, we look at sway bars by their diameter but that's not the only important aspect. Also important is the material, which defines how stiff it is, and the distance from the center of the cross-bar to the attachment point in your springs, which defines the leverage.

After figuring out the above then you have to think that the stiffer the sway bar is, the more lateral force the rear axle will be seeing, which could lead to more oversteer. The way it works is that the more the sway bar limits the roll of an axis, the more that axis "gets" the total lateral force of the car compared to the other axle. Therefore, it is critical to balance the roll between the front and rear to keep all under control.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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1 hour ago, Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs said:

I would just suggest that you not build your car for 1% or your use. If you run track days and autocross weekly then go all out. If not you will hate the harsh ride for the 99% of the time in the car. 

 

Took the car out this afternoon to enjoy a 75 deg. sunny day. The ride is not harsh at all, actually just the way I like it. If this were a coup or vert, maybe I'd do it differently. To me, a Mach1 is a sport car, so I want it to handle like a sport car. It is actually softer now with the Boss springs than it was with the GAT's.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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37 minutes ago, tony-muscle said:

Adding a stiffer sway bar is not necessarily better. First of all, unfortunately, we look at sway bars by their diameter but that's not the only important aspect. Also important is the material, which defines how stiff it is, and the distance from the center of the cross-bar to the attachment point in your springs, which defines the leverage.

After figuring out the above then you have to think that the stiffer the sway bar is, the more lateral force the rear axle will be seeing, which could lead to more oversteer. The way it works is that the more the sway bar limits the roll of an axis, the more that axis "gets" the total lateral force of the car compared to the other axle. Therefore, it is critical to balance the roll between the front and rear to keep all under control.

Tony, I get what you're saying. A 3/4" bar might be better, but  ADDCO don't offer that option. Unfortunately the one they currently offer for our cars is wrong. On mine, I have the 1 1/8" up front which does seem to balance the car out ok. Like most, I'm not an engineer,  so we guess, for the want of a better word, at what will work. As for material the bars are made of, well we have to trust the manufacturer did his homework. they don't stipulate the grade of steel they use. I don't overdrive my car, but it will handle curves without scaring the sh*t out on me. However, I appreciate your input. Thanks.

 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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17 hours ago, Stanglover said:

Tony, I get what you're saying. A 3/4" bar might be better, but  ADDCO don't offer that option. Unfortunately the one they currently offer for our cars is wrong. On mine, I have the 1 1/8" up front which does seem to balance the car out ok. Like most, I'm not an engineer,  so we guess, for the want of a better word, at what will work. As for material the bars are made of, well we have to trust the manufacturer did his homework. they don't stipulate the grade of steel they use. I don't overdrive my car, but it will handle curves without scaring the sh*t out on me. However, I appreciate your input. Thanks.

 

Geoff, I posted this not so much related to your setup but more as a general information. I recently started reading more and more about suspension setups and just recently understood this issue. A few weeks ago I would have thought that stiffer was better, but now I understand the physics behind why that's not necessarily true. I don't think that the difference between 3/4 and 7/8 would be enough to worry about it. There are many other subtle issues such as chassis stiffness, stiffness of bushings and attachment points. Technically speaking you could reduce the effectiveness of the sway bar by using rubber bushings instead of polyurethane, which would be equivalent to reducing the diameter. Also, the less stiff a chassis is (as not having cross-braces and/or subframe connectors), the less effective a sway bar is, and the more difficult would be to balance the car front/rear.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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7 minutes ago, tony-muscle said:

Geoff, I posted this not so much related to your setup but more as a general information. I recently started reading more and more about suspension setups and just recently understood this issue. A few weeks ago I would have thought that stiffer was better, but now I understand the physics behind why that's not necessarily true. I don't think that the difference between 3/4 and 7/8 would be enough to worry about it. There are many other subtle issues such as chassis stiffness, stiffness of bushings and attachment points. Technically speaking you could reduce the effectiveness of the sway bar by using rubber bushings instead of polyurethane, which would be equivalent to reducing the diameter. Also, the less stiff a chassis is (as not having cross-braces and/or subframe connectors), the less effective a sway bar is, and the more difficult would be to balance the car front/rear.

 Tony, I see what you're talking about now. Yes good information and little things like bushings can and do make a huge difference. That is explained in one of the Eaton video's. For me, it was about reducing some of the body roll without spending a fortune and basically rebuilding the entire chassis as one would need to do for a race car of some sort. Unfortunately, there really is not too much offered and even less information as to the best approach to improve handling for a street car. All the so called performance parts manufacturers really want to do, is sell product, so they'll say just about anything, right or wrong to make that sale. As we know, the Addco rear bar is far from correct,  so what was it made for and why did they think it was okay for the 71-73 Mustangs?

As for the 1/2" factory bar, it may as well have not been there as far as I'm concerned, the car rolled like a pig in mud going around corners.

By the way, my last nights reply may have been slightly influenced by the last bottle of beer! Didn't mean it to be offensive.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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5 minutes ago, Stanglover said:

 

By the way, my last nights reply may have been slightly influenced by the last bottle of beer! Didn't mean it to be offensive.

Not at all. Never took it offensive, I was more making sure that you didn't think I was criticizing your choice of sway bar. All good my friend!

There is so much to learn in regards to suspension and cars in general. Plus, we can have all these theories, but at the end of the day what matters is what works for each of us.

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20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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I forgot to mention that after a nice little drive yesterday, I re-torqued the U bolt nuts after about 50-60 miles of letting the axle and springs "settle in". I was surprised how much more I had to crank on the nuts to get 45 ft/lbs or actually, I go a little over as I think my wrench is on the low side. 

Topped up the gas tank so job done, almost time to put her to bed for winter.

 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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2 minutes ago, tony-muscle said:

Not at all. Never took it offensive, I was more making sure that you didn't think I was criticizing your choice of sway bar. All good my friend!

There is so much to learn in regards to suspension and cars in general. Plus, we can have all these theories, but at the end of the day what matters is what works for each of us.

Well said Tony and yeah glad you were not offended. That is the last thing I want to do to anybody.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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