Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hello Mustang Family , I need some advice or assistance. 

 

I have a 73 Mustang with 351C 2V motor , the motor has just gone through a complete rebuild with new balancer and inside bits. I used a ebay ready to run distributor and set the static timing , we started the car in December and it was running perfectly fine, first turn start and no issues. The car went off to a V8 "specialist" they removed the distributor to change what I dont know but since then the car has had 2 issues. 1. It burnt the center pin on the distributor cap , I have never seen this before and cannot understand why . Before they pulled the Distro they sent a vid of the car and it was running beautifully. 2. Since the new cap is on she will not fire clean and backfires through the intake. I am suspecting timing but setting her on TDC or 10Deg BTDC does the same. Really not sure what could be the issue  , perhaps the pickup in the distro has gone and its not doing something it should. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

What kind of ignition? Points, electronic? I wonder if something got damage with the ignition? Did you ask or did they tell you why they removed the distributor?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

Link to post
Share on other sites

HI Tony , this is the electronic ready to run distributor set up , no points or condenser. I have added the link below from the ebay purchase. 

The story was they were not seeing any oil pressure (bullshit as the light went off) , so they dropped the sump to confirm the oil pickup was connected, then removed the Dizzy to drive the pump to build up pressure. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-351C-400-429-460-BLACK-Female-Small-HEI-Distributor-45K-Coil-PLUG-WIRES/190989360791?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

 

I am going to head out there again on Thursday and redo the timing manually (stick in plug hole to confirm TDC) as this is how I assembled it the first time 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good idea to double check timing and TDC.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why did you send it to the "specialist" to begin with?

+1 on checking TDC and timing. Also make sure the firing order is correct, (counterclockwise rotor rotation) when they pulled the distributor they probably pulled some wires off the cap. Also make sure #1 is TDC on the compression stroke. 

Arcing can burn off the center electrode, either from the rotor not making contact or the button being loose or installed wrong.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I built the car complete and had a gearbox leak , this was my first "american muscle car" build , I usually do Jap cars and Euro cars so wanted someone to cast an eye over it . When we started the motor in December she was running great , the only issue was the leak from the gearbox front seal. Since I dont have a lift and was not in the mood to pull the box again (did it 3 times) i sent it to them to assist with that and some other small bits. 

They changed my cap from a female to male , changed the boots on my new plug leads to accommodate and now I have the backfire. Its such a pain in the ass 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Firing order...

The specialist likely installed the spark plug wires in the wrong sequence, either clockwise, or wrong firing order, or both.

The distributor rotor rotates counterclockwise and the firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. The passenger side cylinder numbering is 1-2-3-4 and the driver side numbering is 5-6-7-8 on left-hand drive vehicles.

Edited by Don C

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a stupid question , what is the possibility the distro is damaged because they connected the wires to the coil incorrectly  ? Would this also cause the cap to burn out and the distro to be damaged? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

No question is stupid, it's only stupid to not ask.

Connecting the module to the wrong terminals shouldn't damage the module if it is designed properly, it should have built in protection. It shouldn't function at all, if connected wrong, so couldn't damage the cap.

Is the spring contact on the rotor also burned/pitted?

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I'm far from being the best guy to answer this question, but I see a few red flags and that starts with a "whatever it is" distributor. I can only make suggestions based on my own experiences trying to get my 71 4V to run right. Again I emphasize this is on my 71 M code. First off if it were me, I'd buy a DuraSpark set up from someone like Performance Distributors. Not cheap but  a damn good set up..... and it's FORD! Failing that, you could get a Motorcraft reman from Cardone or other remanufacturer. Cardone have a quite good remake of the Motorcraft/Autolite, but it's made in China and has metric screws. I have one as a back up and is curved for 20 deg on the crank (10L slot, .410 wide) with an initial of 14 deg for a total of 34 mechanical all in between 2800 and 3000 rpm. This is what the Motorcraft in the car is set at as well. The sparks come from a Pertronix Ignitor II (red one) with matching coil, 8mm spiral wound wire set and Autolite 25 plugs, but in your engine Autolite 24's might be better suited. Gap (for the Pertronix) is set at .045". The curve is crucial. Most remans  and maybe repops are made to the original specs with a 30 deg crank 15L slot,  plus only 6 deg initial for a total of 36  deg. mechanical. Vacuum was about 6 -10 degrees I believe. I only run 4 deg vacuum approx.

Anyway, hope this helps a bit, good luck and please let us know what you find out when you get it running great.

Geoff.

PS, if you decide to change distributors and want to go back to a more stock style, I have pictures of what I did for mine. Just ask.

Edited by Stanglover

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the rotor isn't also burned it is likely the carbon button either broke apart or fell out.

Do you still have the stock points distributor? If so I would put it back in until you get the car running right, work on one issue at a time, don't compound them.

I agree with Stanglover, if you want an electronic distributor convert to a Duraspark.  Buying a no-name from an unknown vendor is a crap shoot, at best.

  • Like 1

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know who your specialist are but my questions is why did they change the cap over.  Old saying if it isn't broke don't fix it applies big time here.  As Don and Stanglover have mentioned sounds like something in the timing / firing order or could be the dizzy.   You can't go wrong going with a Duraspark. I would also maybe ohms out the plugs wires since they put on new ends.  There are several different way to check but to keep it simple measure a couple of the wires length in inches.  Take the ohm reading and divide by the length you measured  in inches and this will give you ohms per inch.   Ex - 14 inch wire with reading of 4000 = 285 ohms per inch.  You can then use the per inch reading and multiply by the length of the wires and see if it close to the reading you are getting.   Check all of the wires just to make sure they all are good and you don't have a bad one.     

Edited by Kilgon

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for the replies, I have a GMstyle HEI laying about as well which i purchased before going the route of ready to run but it was too big for my airfilter to fit over. 

 

I am going to take some time and see whats going on . all replies will be checked and replied to .

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shaheenk, as I stated before, I'm not the best qualified to answer this, but I honestly don't know why people insist on trying to use GM style anything on our Fords. For starters, it's likely a Chinese knock-off. Do they work, maybe. Are they good, not likely. Do they look ugly, absolutely. That's just MY opinion, but to each his own I guess. In a situation like you're in, after all other tests check out, yes you could try it as it may prove the other dizzy is a problem. However as Don C mentioned, if you have the original Ford dist. with points, try that first. If need be, throw a new set of points and condenser in and set it up correctly. You likely would need to back off the initial timing to below 10 deg (6-8), but it should run way better. It's a matter of elimination to find the real problem. Take your time and yes, it's frustrating as hell and that I AM qualified to answer.

Good luck moving forward.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

hey Stanglover , support is what I needed and you guys have provided it. I dont have the original Disto that would be first prize. Being out in South Africa also means anything costs double what it would in the US once shipping is plugged in. 

I have taken the day off work to go fiddle with it , I am no pro, but I understand the basics. 

 

Pretty sure I will find the issue.

 

Thanks

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, shaheenk said:

hey Stanglover , support is what I needed and you guys have provided it. I dont have the original Disto that would be first prize. Being out in South Africa also means anything costs double what it would in the US once shipping is plugged in. 

I have taken the day off work to go fiddle with it , I am no pro, but I understand the basics. 

 

Pretty sure I will find the issue.

 

Thanks

 

 Yes, it must be much harder for people living outside the US and Canada, (it's expensive enough here sometimes with very high dollar exchange rates) to get the stuff needed. We have several members in the UK going through the same issues. So, you do what you have to do and in the end, you'll prevail. Just a thought, perhaps one of us has working usable Motorcraft dist. for sale or better yet, donate. That way you may get a less expensive option. Try a WTB ad in the classified section or on F/B. If I had another spare fully working curved distributor, I'd donate it, but alas I don't unfortunately.

There is one item nobody has mentioned on aftermarket distributors and that is the cam gear. It is critical they mesh correctly within very small tolerances. Not only that, but personally,  I don't trust the material they're made from, not even the Cardone Select Chinese remake I have despite Cardone claiming the material is to original spec. and that's why it's in my "if I have to use it" box.

Anyway I really hope you get it running soon, let us know eh!

PS, I just thought of something that happened to me this year. It was running rough and after going through all the possibilities I could think of, it turned out to be a hair line crack in an almost new brass terminal cap, Another new cap fixed the issue. Even a new cap could be cracked. Worth a double check.

Edited by Stanglover
Add PS. to post.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/25/2020 at 2:16 PM, Don C said:

Firing order...

The specialist likely installed the spark plug wires in the wrong sequence, either clockwise, or wrong firing order, or both.

The distributor rotor rotates counterclockwise and the firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. The passenger side cylinder numbering is 1-2-3-4 and the driver side numbering is 5-6-7-8 on left-hand drive vehicles.

My first thought is the firing order as well. I know SA got their version of the Australian Falcons with the Clevelands, but if the 'specialist' is more familiar with Chevy stuff then he might have used the 351 Windsor firing order. 

 

The other thing is the GM style module in your distributor. I have a GM 4.3 Safari van (1990 with TBI) that I have had to sort out 30 years of neglect after buying it last year. It uses the same style module as the V8s. I was having issues and put in a brand new replacement. Chased my tail awhile before realising the brand new module was bad. There has been lots of discussion about bad ignition components for GMs coming out of China. I would suspect that given the price of that complete set up that they are using some cheaper components. I'm not knocking China, there has been some really good stuff coming out of there, but there is still alot of cheap ready to fail stuff too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Any updates?  The original problem as described sounds like crossed wires.  Could be as simple as that.  Could be the wrong firing order, but it won’t even try to fire or pop with the early firing order.  

Link to my 72 Q code: pics added 2/16/19

https://www.supermotors.net/registry/28719/88030-2

 

Link to my now sold 72 H.O

https://www.supermotors.net/registry/5858

 

My 70 Boss racecar

https://www.supermotors.net/registry/6520

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So some  updates,.

 

Went out there today with a complete box of tools and bits. 

 

1. Plug lead number 1 had a high ohmage reading compared to the others. they were all within spec except number 1 which was reading about 5 -6 times higher, they changed this one lead and have no idea where the old one is. Found a usable lead in a box within the same spec as the ones used elsewhere. Problem 1 

2. Checked the TDC with screwdriver and the marks on the crank pulley are spot on , which means TDC on engine and TDC on damper are in line with each other

3. Checked the coil is wired correctly , but I think its poked....

4. Put the ready to run in and cranked, no more backfire but she wont fire up , you can hear it wants to but just not enough . Pulled number 1 lead , put a plug on the end , we getting spark but very weak. 

5. Took the big HEI GM style jobbie , wired it up (1Wire to battery) , redid all the plug leads and she fires up , I cant adjust the disto as it touches the intake and stuff so it runs rough , but it fires up . 

Now because I cant adjust the timing by turning the distro it afterfires through the exhaust , so I know I am very retarded on the timing . But fire up it does. 

Taking the ready to run to a repair guy out here and getting him to test it and the coil. Will also change out the leads as I am OCD like that and want them all the same . 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like you are on the home stretch of getting it to run good. I would still go back to a Duraspark dizzy if you get the opportunity to get one.  Realize your parts situation.  Nothing wrong with being OCD.  Been there. It sometimes helps you to sleep better at night instead of laying there wondering if you should have or not.  Hopefully your repair guy will get yours working and it will resolve you problems.   

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, shaheenk said:

5. Took the big HEI GM style jobbie , wired it up (1Wire to battery) , redid all the plug leads and she fires up , I cant adjust the disto as it touches the intake and stuff so it runs rough , but it fires up . 

Yes indeed it sounds like you're getting close. I'm not at all familiar with those HEI things, but can you not pull it and re-stab it a tooth or two different so you get more room to turn it? Just wondering. 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, shaheenk said:

 

5. Took the big HEI GM style jobbie , wired it up (1Wire to battery) , redid all the plug leads and she fires up , I cant adjust the disto as it touches the intake and stuff so it runs rough , but it fires up . 

Now because I cant adjust the timing by turning the distro it afterfires through the exhaust , so I know I am very retarded on the timing . But fire up it does. 

Taking the ready to run to a repair guy out here and getting him to test it and the coil. Will also change out the leads as I am OCD like that and want them all the same . 

That was the thing about my bad module,...it tested good. Swapped it with a known good one and everything was fine.

 

Edited by detritusmaximus
Link to post
Share on other sites

looked at the DuraSpark units they are also the big base type , with the long oval air cleaner I dont think it will clear. Still investigating . But we getting there . 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...