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71 Mach1(Trans Am) 2" nose drop


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6 hours ago, Mister 4x4 said:

I just ran through the entire thread, and I have to say, Excellent Work - Truly Inspiring!  I love the vision and direction you're going - very cool, indeed!

My one question: why did you feel the need to mini-tub when you're planning on stuffing 'just' 295/50R15s on 15x10s w/5" back spacing out back?  I have the same wheel size setup as what you spec'd without any modifications whatsoever, although I have 5 1/4" back spacing on those 15x10s.

Just my curiosity asking the question.

Hello again.I mini tubed the car for multiple reasons. Yes a 10'' wheel with a 295 does fit the stock wells and looks good, but..............My car is going to sit very low,and by low I mean oil pan maybe 2-3''s off the ground.Now in the rear I wanted the tires just about even with the flare on the body,which is fine for a stockish car. But with a very low rear suspension height once you start working the suspension tires with large flexible side walls start hitting things.Mustang wheel houses are very narrow in the front.So if you take a low riding car with a big tire and jack up, just on one side of the rear axle, the top of the tire will get jammed into the inner wheel house. I also did it because all of the factory team race cars had it done. I don't want to look at the car and go I should have.If I just tub it,it's done and no clearance issues to deal with.I am trying to keep in line with how KK might have built it.I am also going to have to hammer larger flares into all 4 corners and cut out the top of the outer rear wheel house and make that flat. Here is a pic of Allan Moffet's car.This is pretty much the stance that I am building into my car.

Allan-Moffat-Mustang.jpg

Edited by 71Rustang
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Hello,it only took 4 weeks  to install the radiator,but at least it's done. I made the mounts using the KK blue prints for 69/70,and modified it for a 71.The radiator is a high as I could get it. The

I am building a 71 Mach 1 into a Trans Am car.I'm building the car as if it have been built by Kar Kraft had Ford not canceled the program.I am however taking some creative liberties in doing so. The

A few of my related archived pics. I have more but would need to look harder to locate.  :)  That #25 car is the Tope car when owned and raced by Bill Maier, owner of a very well-known 'repopper' Shel

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I've been following this thread sit it started since I am more interested in roadrace stuff than dragrace.  I have to say that is a heck of a lot of impressive work. I have two questions.

First...What are you doing with the steering box? I remember reading years ago about someone running a Trans Am car using the Australian Falcon RHD steering boxes for header clearance and cutting a hole for the mirror image box to fit in the car. But that was on a 69/70, so is it even practical (or needed) in a 71-73?

Second...are you seeing an increase in weld quality from the start to the finish? Seems to me with that much welding there would have to be....

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6 hours ago, detritusmaximus said:

I've been following this thread sit it started since I am more interested in roadrace stuff than dragrace.  I have to say that is a heck of a lot of impressive work. I have two questions.

First...What are you doing with the steering box? I remember reading years ago about someone running a Trans Am car using the Australian Falcon RHD steering boxes for header clearance and cutting a hole for the mirror image box to fit in the car. But that was on a 69/70, so is it even practical (or needed) in a 71-73?

Second...are you seeing an increase in weld quality from the start to the finish? Seems to me with that much welding there would have to be....

Hi,glad you like the car.Your first query.The Mustang with the Australian steering box was Smokey Yunick's 69 Boss 302. I don't really know the reasoning behind him doing that other than the fact of,Smokey Yunick. The standard manual steering box (16:1)was fitted to the cars built by Kar Kraft.My car has the variable ratio box that comes with the competition suspension.But since none of that matters anyway ,I was still going to reuse it. The 800 series boxes are good steering boxes.I am either going to rebuild as is,or send it out to have it reconditioned with a 12:1 conversion.I'm not going to bother getting a manual box.................and yes some Tran Am cars did have power steering.       

 Your second question about welding.I've been welding on cars for almost 20 years.So no,I don't see any improvements since I started on this project.I just build and weld one modification and move on to the next.See what nobody ever really tells you about building a car is there about 1000 different scenarios where the car will dictate to you what techniques  you use.Some stuff will just come out shit like welding galvanized panels ,like the entire bottom of these cars ,and doing it overhead.So now you have gravity to deal with.There are so many different factors like: welding thin to thin,thick to thin,is it over head,hidden grease and oil in between joints and seams, can I even see what I am doing,how do I even get the welder nozzle in there and it goes on forever.The best advice I can give just be comfortable and relaxed before you strike an arc,the rest is just inch by inch.

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Here's a quick one.You don't even have to be building a TA car to do this either.I have installed a 1/8'' square plate from the inner rocker to the outer leaf spring mount.Nothing jaw dropping but effective.

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On 12/14/2020 at 11:15 PM, 71Rustang said:

Hi,glad you like the car.Your first query.The Mustang with the Australian steering box was Smokey Yunick's 69 Boss 302. I don't really know the reasoning behind him doing that other than the fact of,Smokey Yunick. The standard manual steering box (16:1)was fitted to the cars built by Kar Kraft.My car has the variable ratio box that comes with the competition suspension.But since none of that matters anyway ,I was still going to reuse it. The 800 series boxes are good steering boxes.I am either going to rebuild as is,or send it out to have it reconditioned with a 12:1 conversion.I'm not going to bother getting a manual box.................and yes some Tran Am cars did have power steering.       

 Your second question about welding.I've been welding on cars for almost 20 years.So no,I don't see any improvements since I started on this project.I just build and weld one modification and move on to the next.See what nobody ever really tells you about building a car is there about 1000 different scenarios where the car will dictate to you what techniques  you use.Some stuff will just come out shit like welding galvanized panels ,like the entire bottom of these cars ,and doing it overhead.So now you have gravity to deal with.There are so many different factors like: welding thin to thin,thick to thin,is it over head,hidden grease and oil in between joints and seams, can I even see what I am doing,how do I even get the welder nozzle in there and it goes on forever.The best advice I can give just be comfortable and relaxed before you strike an arc,the rest is just inch by inch.

Thanks for the reply. 

I remember reading about the steering box thing but never saw the reason/result until the other day. I found a small pic (but haven't found a decently large one) of the exhaust headers he had built for that car. It makes sense now. I didn't know if that box was a common thing or, as you say, Smokey being Smokey. 

I never did learn welding, wish I had. I do other kinds of fabrication and when I do something I haven't done for a while I find the quality at the end to be better than when I started.

As for Allan Moffat, I had the opportunity to take some pics of a 'replica' (more of a fairly stout 'tribute' street car) of his Brut 33 Falcon when it was nearly done. Not like what you are doing, but it was a beautifully done car. The Falcons are neat cars, but having driven a Falcon (a John Goss Special) and having owned a 70 Mustang fastback, I can't imagine roadracing Falcon. 

 

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Since I have the engine out of my car and plan on doing a lot of clean-up, what areas would you suggest I concentrate on as far as welding seams and adding reinforcement to tighten up the structure. Please keep in mind the car is painted. I have subframe connectors but little else. I am thinking about adding the outer shock tower bracing and welding the front structure and torque boxes. Needless to say convertibles are a good bit more flexible than the others. The interior is also out to re-wire the car. 

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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8 hours ago, droptop73 said:

Since I have the engine out of my car and plan on doing a lot of clean-up, what areas would you suggest I concentrate on as far as welding seams and adding reinforcement to tighten up the structure. Please keep in mind the car is painted. I have subframe connectors but little else. I am thinking about adding the outer shock tower bracing and welding the front structure and torque boxes. Needless to say convertibles are a good bit more flexible than the others. The interior is also out to re-wire the car. 

Hi.Well........It's all up to how crazy you would like to get.If it were me and I had a car like yours I would most certainly weld the seems of the frame rails from the torque box to the radiator support. Then the outer shock towers to the fender aprons to start.Also do the radiator support to the front fender aprons and the rear aprons to the fire wall.All of this will insure making the front box of the car way more rigid and a much better foundation to mount the suspension.I did make an amendment to my lower shock tower braces. The vertical outer flange where the top frame flange is spot welded to the side frame flange,I just cut the entire thing off flush with the top of the frame and then blended the corners for a nice transition.I then rewelded the 45 degree brace to the open edge at the corner where the top and side of the frame meet.After some research I did find that the is how the race cars were done, so you don't have to weld at a stupid angle to attach the bottom of the flange inside the trough.If you go back and look at the pics I have of the upper frame rails I installed you can see the change.I looks a ton better and is stronger all together.So that's the minimum that I would do.The front ends of these thing do move around a ton and is where most of your work should be concentrated. Also you don't have to completely weld the bottoms of the frame rails like I did ,skip welding will be fine.I do pretty much everything 2'' weld, 2'' space, 2'' weld ect..............

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Thanks for the advice and the update on the outer tower brace. I spent some time in the shop looking at it over the weekend. I think that's where I'll start. If I want to do more at the middle and back of the car later there's way less disassembly. I might do some reinforcement at the "B" pillar though, there's a ton of flex there when closing the doors. 

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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Hello.Finally got some mock up tires and got them mounted. Goodyear Blue Streaks, fronts are 600x15 and 800x15 rear which in metric is a 265 50 15 and a 295 50  15. Now I am mocking them up in body to figure out how wide the rear is going to be. A 60'' wide rear puts the bulge of the tire even with the factory lip and the other width I like is 59''. The 1/2''makes a huge difference I found and I do like it both ways. How close to the body height wise doesn't matter. The top of the tires are going to be right up against the top of the lip at ride height. I'm going to flare the quarters anyway......

tires.jpg

60 wide.jpg

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59 wide2.jpg

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I used a LARES 810 steering gear. Lares says it is a 10:1 box. It is 2.5 turns lock to lock. My old box was 3 turns lock to lock. This gearbox is not variable rate so it turns immediately off center. My car has 6.5 degrees of caster and a stock power steering pump. Steering effort is much higher than stock but enjoyable to drive and the car is much more nimble. Probably the best thing about this is the lack of extra steering wheel turn in a slalom.

 

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Hi,y'all. It's been a little while.I finally have come to the decision that I will be using the stock rear end width of 61". The rear is going to be a Coleman 9 inch floater.I have also removed all evidence of the e-brake system. I do have a question for y'all. Is it possible to convert a manual steering box to a quicker ratio? I'm looking at getting one so I can move the car around in the future. Less mess. Than a power box. And I got to wondering,can I make the 24:1 box more racy go fast,say 16:1 or lower?

 

 

 

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Anybody need any slightly bent emergency brake brackets. The only bracket that is left on the car is for the pinion bumper.I am debating about take that one off also.

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Bear in mind, a lower ratio manual steering box will require a lot more effort to turn the steering wheel, especially at low speeds, and can tire a person out quickly. A trick that racers used to use is a longer pitman arm.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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9 hours ago, Don C said:

Bear in mind, a lower ratio manual steering box will require a lot more effort to turn the steering wheel, especially at low speeds, and can tire a person out quickly. A trick that racers used to use is a longer pitman arm.

As far as I know, there aren't any longer pitman arms available,not saying that something, some where from another Ford wouldn't work. But I think I may have found some info about using a Vette sector shaft and worm assembly. I'm also sending emails to rebuilders to see if it is possible. 

..

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Hi,a quick update. I ordered the rear end today. A 61" wide full floating Coleman 9 inch. So in the next coming weeks and months there will be the building of traction bar links,pinion angle setting,Watts link engineering and general car building mayhem to come.

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Hello.I don't know if anybody here has ever seen this.I found this on the good old interweb.It's about taking Vette steering box parts and with a couple modifications you can put them into the Ford manual box for a 16:1 ratio.Which is the ratio that where in the 69/70 TA boxes.I did check out the part numbers and they are legit,actually you can by kits with all the parts in them to rebuild a Vette box.I also believe that KK would have figured this out and used it.This is the new steering box plan.

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Edited by 71Rustang
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That rim and tire combo is perfection. 

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Hi.............another quick update.I have been talking with Borgeson steering.I took apart the manual box I have and sent them pictures of the parts.To which the person confirmed that the internals are indeed Saginaw parts.The box is a Ford copy of a Saginaw 525 box.They will sell me a new worm rack assembly to convert the box to 16:1 with no modifications needed. But they are currently out of stock on them,but are right now in process of producing more and will be available in 8 to 10 weeks.

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Hello,while I'm waiting on parts,new rear axle housing, bearings to rebuild the center section and install the locker,I finally finished the ends of the rockers. I had thought about running the wheel flares to the bottom of the rockers. A while ago I decided to build the flares just as KK would have. Just large enough to cover the top of the tire. And tall enough to have the tire go up in body without hitting anything. So I finished the rocker ends back to factory.

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Hello again,I hate waiting for parts.So while I am I decided to make some 1'' lower blocks like the cars ran.I used 6061,they are 5''x1.75''x1''. I also made them pretty much by hand since I do not have any access to a mill.I also install the locker in the center section.I am currently  working on the spring perches and the lower spring plates.I should have my axle housing next week..........fingers crossed

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I made a similar set of 2" blocks. I noticed the axle was not centered in the wheelwell and made them with a 1/2" shift rearward to center the axle. 

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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Hello everyone,I'm still waiting for my rear axle ,so I have been working on the radiator mounts.The first set was a fail,the nose drop is too radical of a modification to use the factory mounting holes with mounts that bolt in.So I will be making mounts that weld in.Anyway I found some neat pictures of Ed Hinchcliffs car in its current state,and the blue and white Mustang is the car is how it originally looked in the late 70s,enjoy........

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Edited by 71Rustang
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Hi,I finally have my rear end housing and parts.So I will get started on that as soon as I finish my radiator brackets which are not winning the war anymore.But winter is mentally and physically.I absolutely hate everything about Pennsylvania.

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Edited by 71Rustang
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