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PS Steering Pump Whines After Hi-ratio Upgrade


airfido
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I have several cars with PS but my Mach 1 1973 has a smaller dia. pulley than the others do. So the pump will go faster. Did the different ratios have different diameters? The only reason I noticed it I was going to put a kit in the pump but could not get the pulley off broke one puller and got a better one and even heated the pulley but never did get it off. So I went to get another pump and noticed the pulley dia. difference.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Higher revving engines got a larger diameter pulley on PS pump, alternator etc. to slow rotation speed of accessories to something that promoted a longer service life. a 1969-1970 Boss 302 is one example. Chuck

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OK, thanks for the tutorial. Here is the video:

Note: This is an “H” code car, the engine was replaced with a 351-4V prior to our purchase, and judging by the location of the shifter on the left side of the transmission, may have come from a ‘69 Fairlane or other wide-body car. I do not know if the power steering pump/pulley came with the engine, or is the original pump to the car. Pulley diameter is 5.5” at the outside. Again, though, this whining began when the gearbox/suspension was replaced. It ran fine prior to that.

Next step is to test the whine with the tires off the ground, but springs depressed (tires unloaded) I know that turning the wheel with the vehicle stationary usually creates a load that may result in a whine, but the whine continues as the car accelerates away from stopped.

Edited by airfido
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Wow! didn't realize you were talking that kind of whine. That sounds awful. Are you sure there's nothing rubbing on the belt or pulley? Sounds dumb, but it's got to be something simple (I hope for your sake) if it ran fine earlier before the upgrades. Have you tried removing the pump to make sure and check the alignment. There is an aluminum spacer behind the long bolt, it's about 5/8" if I remember, do you have the right spacer?

I'm grabbing at straws I know, but unless your pump is completely F'd and needs replacing, it's got to be something just "off a bit"

Man, that's got to be frustrating!!

By the way, love the color!

Edited by Stanglover

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I agree with Stanglover, sounds like something rubbing and being ground away. To me, if that is coming from the pump, I would suspect a piece of metal was in a hose or the box and got pushed into the pump.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Update: It’s getting worse. Makes a lot of noise when driving, and seems to be losing steering power. It’s quite loud now. When jacked up, the steering worked easily by hand (not running) with no binding.
 

Plan: I am going to replace the pump, and try to purge the system in the process. Any suggestions on how to flush it out? I will be looking for debris and contaminants. 
 

JB

 

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I think you're right to replace the pump, but either swap the pulley or make sure it's the same diameter. After thinking more about it, I remembered earlier this year, my son's BMW PS pump was making one hell of a racket, very similar to the noise yours is making. We installed a new pump and flushed the system. BMW have a procedure to flush and vent it. VERY expensive PS fluid, 2 quarts cost more then the pump! Anyway, I stripped the old pump down to see if I could salvage it, but the bearing was totally shot and to replace it would be more than was paid for the new pump.

Bottom line, I think the bearing(s) is/are totally shot. To vent and flush your PS box, you can turn the pulley by hand or perhaps use some sort of pump to force the fluid through the box and into a jar. 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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It is messy but you can fabricate an inverted flare adapter to connect compressed air to your steering box pressure line (with pump disconnected).  Place the steering box return line in a bucket with some rags over it and apply compressed air, then turn the car several times lock to lock.  That should get rid of 95% of the old fluid in the system.  Be mindful to do this with a cold engine, because the mist / spray from the return line is flammable.  It will make a mess in the catch bucket.

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49 minutes ago, Bentworker said:

It is messy but you can fabricate an inverted flare adapter to connect compressed air to your steering box pressure line (with pump disconnected).  Place the steering box return line in a bucket with some rags over it and apply compressed air, then turn the car several times lock to lock.  That should get rid of 95% of the old fluid in the system.  Be mindful to do this with a cold engine, because the mist / spray from the return line is flammable.  It will make a mess in the catch bucket.

 That'll work! Could be messy as you say. Reading through the Cardone method Don posted, I think I like that better though.

Edited by Stanglover

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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No matter how you do it there's plenty of opportunities for making a mess. I was trying to come up with something like the reservoir used in a pressure brake bleeder, but decided I could really make a mess with that, with 120 psi air pressure behind it. 

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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9 minutes ago, Don C said:

No matter how you do it there's plenty of opportunities for making a mess. I was trying to come up with something like the reservoir used in a pressure brake bleeder, but decided I could really make a mess with that, with 120 psi air pressure behind it. 

 I was thinking along the lines of adapting one of those fluid transfer hand pumps, but I really didn't give it too much thought as to how or if it would work. Definitely could be more control on the size of the mess.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Because the pump provides over 600psi I was trying to come up with something that had enough pressure to force any garbage out. With a little care, like making sure the outlet hose is secure in a bucket with a splash shield so it doesn't fall out on the floor spewing fluid all over or spray out of the bucket, and making sure the reservoir doesn't run dry and fill everything full of foam, the Cardone method works.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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I run a Saginaw pump on my car with a 351C- using a pulley kit from March.  The kit you posted looks good- but I’d be surprised if the brackets provided fit the 351C. 

The original pumps are good, the only advantage to the Saginaw style is that flow rate and pressure changes are easier.  You just unscrew the fitting that the pressure hose connects to, and that gives you access to the regulator.  This really isn’t a feature most users would use unless they ditch their vacuum brake booster and install a hydro boost, or for whatever reason want to tune the max pressure up or down.  You might also save a pound or two with the Saginaw pump.

One last comment- it is possible to damage a pump when removing / installing pulleys- take the time to read the manual.

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I also run a Saginaw pump. I was able to adapt it without buying anything. I "adapted" the OEM adapter and added a support on the back. Here is my post:

Disregard the whole explanation about the pulley. As I explained later in the post, I ended up with a standard pulley. I still have an issue with lack of assist at idle so I think the valve is getting stuck. It is in my list for this winter.

Edited by tony-muscle

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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UPDATE: OK, we replaced the pump with a NEW (not rebuilt) stock model https://www.macsautoparts.com/1971-1973-mustang-power-steering-pump-with-reservoir-6-cylinder-or-v8-44-851508-1.html (not the Saginaw) and even though it looked great, we replaced the pressure hose too.
Post inspection of the hose revealed unrestricted airflow. Fluid inspection revealed about a tablespoon of a very fine milky silvery substance that sank to the bottom. Not granular between the fingers.

RESULT: There is currently NO NOISE FROM THE SYSTEM. The car drives like a dream. 

THOUGHTS: I am cautiously optimistic that the pump was the problem. We will see if this holds up over time. One nagging issue is that this bad pump was just rebuilt by powersteering.com. So, I ask myself, a couple of questions:

1. Could the pump have been worn beyond repair when I sent it in?

2. What would be worn that wouLd not have been replaced in a rebuild?

3. If the pump was beyond repair, shouldn’t the shop have caught that?

4. Was it just a bad rebuild?

That rebuilt pump was noisy from the start, but got even worse over time.

SHOP NOTE: Rent the pulley tool from your local shop. The pulley came off, and went on the new pump “like butta”.

Thanks for everyone’s input. You guys are awesome.

JB

 

 

D3C2206A-04F2-421A-832A-52D0CBB37F53.jpeg

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SOOOOO glad you finally got a good result. Congrats.

It does make one wonder how good some of these rebuild companies are. I had a bad experience with a PS box rebuilder and now I do my own. If I "F" up it's on me.

 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I have dealt with powersteering.com in the past for a power steering box rebuild and they seemed to do nice work. These days I would guess companies would want good reputations in order to keep business coming in, over getting bad ones.

Personally I would trust a company that specifically does power steering related work as opposed to third party sales since you dont know where they get rebuilt cores or who rebuilds them. Macs advertises as "new" but are they really new? Hard to believe. I thought everything for a car 50 years old was repro now a days.

Hopefully it will continue to function as well as it does now.

I see that you did have conversations with powersteering.com when issues started. They didnt say to send the powersteering pump back to them? I would guess that if they found issues, they probably wouldnt have rebuilt it to begin with.

From their website:

NOTE:  If a unit is non-rebuildable due to damage or extreme rust, the customer is notified of their options:

  • Return the unit to the customer

  • Supply the customer with a rebuildable core unit for an additional charge.

  • Other possibilities

 

 

Edited by SteveO_71
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If you just installed the rebuilt pump without flushing the hoses and box its hard telling what kind of junk may have been in there. I know it was a rebuilt box, but that doesn't mean it was clean. The silvery substance you saw is an indication of very finely ground metal, either from something worn out or a piece of debris stuck in the rotor/cam assembly. It may have been caused by a poor rebuild, not catching worn bearings or not having a clean work area. I would contact the rebuilder and tell them about the noise and finding the indication that something was wearing inside of the pump.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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1 hour ago, airfido said:

Good News: Powersteering.com is standing behind their work, and have offered a refund. They are going to examine the pump to see what the problem is.

JB

That's what I like to hear from ANY company: willing to stand behind their work.

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