Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I recently visited a guy who deals in Vintage parts of all sorts. I bought some stuff that I had been looking for. As I was walking out to my car, the guy asked me if the Mach 1 across the street was mine, and if so, he wanted to show me something before I left. He told me that he had been at Edelbrock's, buying some stuff at a "garage sale" Edelbrock had before they moved. This is what he had to show me. It's a prototype casting, cast by Edelbrock, way back when the Clevelands were just new, and it's a 4v manifold cast for 2v heads. I bought it on the spot. I have no idea how it flows, compared to the 4-2v manifold that Edelbrock eventually made and still offers today. Interesting, is that there is no model number cast into it. There is no "Edelbrock" logo cast into it, and the carb mounting pad has only the Holley square bore bolt pattern drilled into it.

The vintage equipment guy said he bought the only two at Edelbrock's "garage sale", and that the other manifold was sold, and I have the second, and last. I'm gearing up to put another engine in my Mach eventually, and this will be going on it, just because. I thought some of you might get a kick out of this rarity.

IMG_3476.JPG

IMG_3474.JPG

IMG_3475.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Might consider steel stamping edelbrock prototype in the casting somewhere. Otherwise it will be a mystery unsolved down the road. 

Nice find indeed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought about some kind of identifying placed on the underside.  Actually, there were a few moments after I bought this that I thought....what if this is really some crappy , made abroad, knock-off of an Edelbrock design....but the casting appears to be much nicer than those poo-poo manifolds being sold for a discount, and the machining is better that most, it even lacks the "waffle' pattern you see on lots of new manifolds on the plenum floor under the carb pad. I spent some time with the seller, talking about it, and going through his parts inventory, and I think he told me the truth. He sure had garages full of lots of old and rare parts, so I came away knowing he was dedicated to finding stuff.

For my intended build, I think this will really fit the bill, as I tend to build in a Factory-like asthetic, and the plain-ness of it's appearance is more like you'd expect to see from Ford, as well as providing the Aussie 2v headed engine with a corresponding intake.

I'm tellin' ya, the stuff this guy had, from Goodyear Blue Streak drag slicks, to Potvin front-drive blowers, to magnesium blocks, to racks of intakes, cylinder heads, darned near any engine part ever cast in aluminum, Mickey Thompson stuff, et cetera, et cetera. I went to his house to buy a cherry set of Hilborn injectors for a 392 Chrysler hemi, which I did, but left with  a bit more.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I notice it has the heat stove opening for the choke as well as the exhaust cross-over passage, but not the channel in the carb base that was there on  4V 351C's. If it were mine, I'd weld plugs into the passages and make a "cap" to go over the heat stove port, just to make it look authentic. Damn nice find there. 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The cap to cover the choke stove mounting opening was included with the manifold, I just didn't put it  in the photo.

Link to post
Share on other sites

THAT is a cool find!!

I was in the service in the late 70's and one of my squad mates had a NASTY '72 Fastback. It started out a 351C 2V, and he saved up about a month's pay for a 4BBL Shelby intake made to fit the 2V heads. I helped him bolt it on. Never saw another one like it. In the year we were stationed together, I think he spent every dime on parts for that car!    

Edited by OldbutNew
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2020 at 10:48 AM, Spike Morelli said:

The cap to cover the choke stove mounting opening was included with the manifold, I just didn't put it  in the photo.

That's great and a great find. I'd still weld in plugs on those cross-over's, totally not needed now and would keep all that heat from the carb., but it's your intake......

Edited by Stanglover

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks to be a 351C Performer intake prototype to me. Chuck

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Stanglover said:

That's great and a great find. I'd still weld in plugs on those cross-over's, totally not needed now and would keep all that heat from the carb., but it's your intake......

Not a bad idea. Sealing the exhaust crossover ports would keep the intake cooler. I could do it being that I live on the west coast and don't really need carb heat in this climate.  I may plug the crossover ports in the heads. I am the engine assembler at the shop, and I have the opportunity to do Clevelands for customers, and I often use the factory style steel tray "turkey pan" intake gasket, which helps a lot to keep the hot oil from splashing up against the underside of the intake manifold. The Cleveland design already isolates the manifold from hot coolant, as it is a "dry" design. Unless there's a reason to go with aftermarket composite or Printoseal type gaskets for modified ports, or sealing issues, or tray interference with roller tappets, the stock tray style gets the nod. The factory pan is not that unorthodox, as Oldsmobile, AMC, Ford 335/385 Series, BB Chrysler etc, use this style intake gasket.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Spike Morelli said:

Not a bad idea. Sealing the exhaust crossover ports would keep the intake cooler. I could do it being that I live on the west coast and don't really need carb heat in this climate.  I may plug the crossover ports in the heads. I am the engine assembler at the shop, and I have the opportunity to do Clevelands for customers, and I often use the factory style steel tray "turkey pan" intake gasket, which helps a lot to keep the hot oil from splashing up against the underside of the intake manifold. The Cleveland design already isolates the manifold from hot coolant, as it is a "dry" design. Unless there's a reason to go with aftermarket composite or Printoseal type gaskets for modified ports, or sealing issues, or tray interference with roller tappets, the stock tray style gets the nod. The factory pan is not that unorthodox, as Oldsmobile, AMC, Ford 335/385 Series, BB Chrysler etc, use this style intake gasket.

 Spike, my thoughts back when I got my car (from California) which had the carb changed from the 4300 (which I got with the car) to the Holley 670, was to try to eliminate the fuel boil-off and hard hot starting it was experiencing. You likely read other posts describing this issue and my solution, which has worked very well. I had tried insulator gaskets, but those did not give the results needed. I tried plugging the two holes at the carb base, but still not enough. The only viable option was to block off the cross-overs completely, but with the heat involved, a thin steel plate wasn't going to cut it, hence the 1/16"SS plates that were installed as well as a thin SS plate mounted into the paper gasket that was held in place by gasket sealer, (Permatex 2) over the head openings. You are in a much better position where you can tig weld in aluminum block off plates. Where I live, summer driving is all we get, so warming of the carb is totally not needed.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stanglover,

                  I hear ya. Obviously, there is no heat channel in this manifold, like the factory manifolds have under the carb base gasket, so direct heat is minimized. Here, in the shop, when we have a set of heads requiring the exhaust crossover blocked for competition porting, we will either weld the crossover port close behind the exhaust bowls, or we sometimes use a copper block-off plate at the intake manifold surface, and pour molten aluminum,  melted down from a forged piston, to completely fill the cavity all the way through into the exhaust bowl, where it's shaped to the bowl shape. Another method for street driving, is to use the steel "restrictor" plates that come in many small block Chevrolet gasket sets. these plates have a small 1/8th inch hole in them. Placed in both sides of the intake they allow some heat to help atomize the intake charge, without excessive heat being used.

In reality, my project will not be a competition engine, I don't use it as such. Being that this car gets driven everyday, cold morning starting and running is important to me. I may, or may not, block the crossover completely....we'll see as the engine project progresses.

You mentioned that your car had fuel boil-off, and had difficult hot starting.  Years ago when I first bought this car, and started towing with it, I experienced hard hot starting after just pulling a long hill with the boat behind. I was pulling the hill like a Banshee, so you know the exhausts were red hot, when my wife needed a potty stop. We pulled off in a truck stop, and the car wouldn't start, not even with a jump from the dragboat's battery. I just had to wait a while to let the starter cool.   The fix, one that remains on the car to this day, is a heat blanket wrapped around the starter. I think I got it from Summitt, and it was pretty inexpensive. I've never had any hot start issues ever again, not even carb boil-over, my car even has A/C, but doesn't overheat . 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Spike Morelli said:

Stanglover,

                  I hear ya. Obviously, there is no heat channel in this manifold, like the factory manifolds have under the carb base gasket, so direct heat is minimized. Here, in the shop, when we have a set of heads requiring the exhaust crossover blocked for competition porting, we will either weld the crossover port close behind the exhaust bowls, or we sometimes use a copper block-off plate at the intake manifold surface, and pour molten aluminum,  melted down from a forged piston, to completely fill the cavity all the way through into the exhaust bowl, where it's shaped to the bowl shape. Another method for street driving, is to use the steel "restrictor" plates that come in many small block Chevrolet gasket sets. these plates have a small 1/8th inch hole in them. Placed in both sides of the intake they allow some heat to help atomize the intake charge, without excessive heat being used.

In reality, my project will not be a competition engine, I don't use it as such. Being that this car gets driven everyday, cold morning starting and running is important to me. I may, or may not, block the crossover completely....we'll see as the engine project progresses.

You mentioned that your car had fuel boil-off, and had difficult hot starting.  Years ago when I first bought this car, and started towing with it, I experienced hard hot starting after just pulling a long hill with the boat behind. I was pulling the hill like a Banshee, so you know the exhausts were red hot, when my wife needed a potty stop. We pulled off in a truck stop, and the car wouldn't start, not even with a jump from the dragboat's battery. I just had to wait a while to let the starter cool.   The fix, one that remains on the car to this day, is a heat blanket wrapped around the starter. I think I got it from Summitt, and it was pretty inexpensive. I've never had any hot start issues ever again, not even carb boil-over, my car even has A/C, but doesn't overheat . 

Spike, that's an interesting read and good information for myself and others.

Going back to my comment about fuel boil off,  percolation, vaporizing or what ever term one wants to use, I know that blocking off the cross-over dropped the intake temp by many degrees under the carb and I have had zero problems since in that regard. I do use a 1" fiber spacer under the carb. to a) aid with keeping the carb cooler, and b) the bores on the 670 are larger than the intake opening, so I taper bored the 4 holes to suit.  This not only gives "supposedly" more torque, but allows the butterfly's to clear. The starter was never an issue on my car, but it's interesting to note that the heat wrap on the starter solved that problem for you. I guess if one is using headers then excessive exhaust heat down there, would be an issue. 

As you mention that you use your car daily and on cooler days, then I would probably agree that a limited amount of heat under the carb, would be a benefit. With your knowledge and skill, you're way ahead of game.  You'll have to let us know how it all turns out and what you decide to do with it.

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the Autolite prototypes was for sale at a swap meet years ago I was selling at. They had it in a case with all the parts to change CFM, jets, metering blocks and such. It was the inline 4-V and inline 2 -4-V. Always looked like a good idea but I guess not. 
I will have to look at a performer I have on the shelf to see how yours compares. I was buying some other parts and he asked if I wanted for $35.00 was on his car two weeks and was crashed and totaled. 
Your guy sounds like Tiger Tom Pistone in Charlotte. He gathered up lots of NASCAR experimental stuff and has warehouse full. 
Did he have any ram air V Pontiac 303 heads or intakes?
Great score hope you can put on dyno and compare numbers to other intakes. 

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

Link to post
Share on other sites

The guy I bought from lives in Long Beach, California. I ran into him and got his card at a Mopar car show and swap meet, where he was selling some stuff. I can certainly ask him about Ram Air V 303 heads and put him in touch with you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That would be great I have a friend that is a Pontiac nut. He had the fastest Pontiac GTO in the world when he stopped running it. We built a Pontiac 303 for Buck Baker at the engine shop I worked at in the 60's. The GM engineers brought the RAM V heads in and the boss laughed at them. Ports the size of a tennis ball for 303 CI. We did not use. Now they are like hens teeth to collectors.

 

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...