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Re-visiting 3 point seat belt conversions.


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1 hour ago, Stanglover said:

Continuing from the discussion in "What did you do to your car today" page 275-276, I will take some more pictures, but for today, it's raining so I'll not be backing the car out of the garage. I don't have enough room in there to get the shots I want.

However, In answer to a question from Tony-muscle, I see why your sash with the cover, causes a 90 deg twist in your shoulder belt. Mine does not have that cover, so the "twist" is taken up within the sash, allowing the shoulder belt to be as it should, no twist. Apart from the sash looking a bit ugly due to the stitching facing outward, seen through the window, it gives a better result in the end. I'm happy with that part at least. As stated, the part I'm not so happy with is the buckle belt (tunnel) portion. However, without the sleeve, the buckle is not hard to locate and snap the tang into. Again it could be 2-3" longer, but these belts were made as a compromise anyway, not specifically for the 71-73 Mustang. More to follow.

I got my sash from seatbelt planet.

https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/c-1389192-seat-belts-shop-by-seat-belt-type-3-point-retractable-lap-shoulder.html

However, the original belt with the center buckle I don't know where it came from.

 

As you said, we are adapting universal sets so some compromises have to be made.

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1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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2 hours ago, tony-muscle said:

I got my sash from seatbelt planet.

https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/c-1389192-seat-belts-shop-by-seat-belt-type-3-point-retractable-lap-shoulder.html

However, the original belt with the center buckle I don't know where it came from.

 

As you said, we are adapting universal sets so some compromises have to be made.

 Tony, just adding to this, I now know Wesco Performance is just a distributor for Seatbelt Solutions, so now I understand why my order was sent to me c/o Wesco and why I paid taxes on the wholesale cost (I assume) Bonus on that score!

Looking at Seatbelt Planet's website, they offer some useful and interesting accessories at good prices. Their belts are more expensive the S/S, but may be better quality, hard to say. What would be really nice is if they offered the tang (that goes into the buckle) as a free slipping piece rather than what they offer which stops the belt fully retracting.  Does that make sense?

IMG_1719.JPG

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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48 minutes ago, Stanglover said:

 Tony, just adding to this, I now know Wesco Performance is just a distributor for Seatbelt Solutions, so now I understand why my order was sent to me c/o Wesco and why I paid taxes on the wholesale cost (I assume) Bonus on that score!

Looking at Seatbelt Planet's website, they offer some useful and interesting accessories at good prices. Their belts are more expensive the S/S, but may be better quality, hard to say. What would be really nice is if they offered the tang (that goes into the buckle) as a free slipping piece rather than what they offer which stops the belt fully retracting.  Does that make sense?

 

I talked to them and they custom made my belts with a tang similar to yours. I will take pictures of my setup and post them once I am back home tonight. The only part I don't like about my setup is that the belt seems short. It fits my small belly well, but it may not fit around someone with a big body.:classic_dry:

Edited by tony-muscle

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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2 hours ago, tony-muscle said:

I talked to them and they custom made my belts with a tang similar to yours. I will take pictures of my setup and post them once I am back home tonight. The only part I don't like about my setup is that the belt seems short. It fits my small belly well, but it may not fit around someone with a big body.:classic_dry:

Ah I see. A custom job eh! My belts are 131" long, more the enough for me..... and my ah'hmm, passenger.

I was thinking of ordering a couple of the soft plastic sleeves and the 6" long end caps. I think a soft sleeve on the buckle belt would be a good compromise. They are cheap so worth a shot. The friggin mail will be twice as much!

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Today I had the wife take a pic of how the belt goes over my shoulder. I think it is easy to see that when the belt was hung from the top of the window, would sit across my neck. Now at least it sit off the neck and that was the goal. The twist is there, but now I see it as it is, I may be able to rotate the belt in the tang. I'm not too worried if I can't, it's not too offensive.

First pic is the modified original cap (a bit out of focus). I needed to trim the tab off it to fit and stay put. Second pic is yours truly. Whos is that old man!!

Overall I'm happy with the install, but I notice I need to pull the tang slowly so as not to lock the mechanism. Something to get used too I guess. Now I just need to get the car out on the road, but I need one more heavy rainfall to finish getting all the salt off the roads, so maybe next week.

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Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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On 3/26/2021 at 1:59 PM, Stanglover said:

 Tony, just adding to this, I now know Wesco Performance is just a distributor for Seatbelt Solutions, so now I understand why my order was sent to me c/o Wesco and why I paid taxes on the wholesale cost (I assume) Bonus on that score!

Looking at Seatbelt Planet's website, they offer some useful and interesting accessories at good prices. Their belts are more expensive the S/S, but may be better quality, hard to say. What would be really nice is if they offered the tang (that goes into the buckle) as a free slipping piece rather than what they offer which stops the belt fully retracting.  Does that make sense?

IMG_1719.JPG

Thats honestly the one thing I wish I would have asked about when I ordered mine. I would rather have had the part with the buckle be able to slide so it could retract easily as opposed to this one. Hindsight I guess.

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8 minutes ago, MKSpeedlab said:

Thats honestly the one thing I wish I would have asked about when I ordered mine. I would rather have had the part with the buckle be able to slide so it could retract easily as opposed to this one. Hindsight I guess.

Yes indeed, I take it you are referring to what I'm calling the "tang", the part that latches into the buckle.  I have not seen that option on ready made belts, but it may be available on custom. It certainly would be a plus for sure. I believe all the new ones in cars have a sliding "tang".

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is a great thread on seatbelts. I'm in Australia and need to replace my belts to meet local laws. However, I can get mine rebuilt using the original buckles etc. Does anyone have any pictures of the original 72 belt set up and how the shoulder strap hooks up when not in use?

Here is a picture of the ends in the middle of the car. I expect the one with the square button is the original as the back seat ones are the same. I think the drivers side one ( the one with the round button) has been replaced at some point in the last 48 years...)

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, bdennis said:

This is a great thread on seatbelts. I'm in Australia and need to replace my belts to meet local laws. However, I can get mine rebuilt using the original buckles etc. Does anyone have any pictures of the original 72 belt set up and how the shoulder strap hooks up when not in use?

Here is a picture of the ends in the middle of the car. I expect the one with the square button is the original as the back seat ones are the same. I think the drivers side one ( the one with the round button) has been replaced at some point in the last 48 years...)

1599765381_20210409_173209(Large).thumb.jpg.70f7349ece7bd09ae8d9679acad1c70a.jpg

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Hi, The seat belts in the 71-72 and probably the 73 are, to the best of my knowledge, the same. I'll look through my stack of pics, but I don't think I ever took any specifically of the original belts and how they hook up. What I can do is take some pics of the old belts I took out. In your pic, the one on the left would be the original, but there would be a chrome star burst sticker in the round indent. Mine are all missing too! 

As for ordering replacements and in hind sight, I think I would order from SeatbeltPlanet.com as I believe they can custom make to order. They may be able to re-web your belts to bring them up to standard, worth an email to find out. Seatbeltsolutions.com is good also. I actually ordered through WescoPerformance.com, but they turned out to be a distributor for Seatbeltsolutions. Be aware of the application for your car. For me, being a shorter guy, I found the drop sash feature really works to stop the belt cutting into my neck. 

The pic below shows the correct 71 tunnel buckle belt at the bottom.  The belt on top is an incorrect lift latch style that I was sold a couple of years ago and returned. These rigid plastic sleeves do not fit our cars very well.

More later if you need help. Send a PM if wish.

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Edited by Stanglover

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I'm adding a few more pics on this subject. I have ordered from Seatbelt Planet, a couple of semi-ridged plastic sleeve that I may be able to use to cover the buckle belt and the drop sash. I also ordered a couple of their 6" long buckle belt bolt covers. These were cheap, the mail was 3 times the cost! I'll see what works and what I like......... maybe and repost pics later. In the meantime, here are the pics of how it is now. I cut the old tab off the cover so it will clip onto the new part. For now, I cut the hard sleeve as a cover for the bolt. 

IMG_1719 (2)_LI.jpg

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Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Thanks for the info Geoff. Its odd that 3 of the buckles are the square type and only 1 is the round starburst type. U had my money on the square ones being original. Any pics of your original belts would be great.

My car is a July 72 car.

I will use a local Seatbelt restorer here in Melbourne Australia to remake mine with local belt webbing that is Australian standard approved once I get an understanding as to how they should be. 

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6 minutes ago, bdennis said:

Thanks for the info Geoff. Its odd that 3 of the buckles are the square type and only 1 is the round starburst type. U had my money on the square ones being original. Any pics of your original belts would be great.

My car is a July 72 car.

I will use a local Seatbelt restorer here in Melbourne Australia to remake mine with local belt webbing that is Australian standard approved once I get an understanding as to how they should be. 

I'll take some pics and post soon. That way you can see what you want and/or can do. The starbust chrome stickers can be bought from NPD I think. (National Parts Depot)

I just received the sleeves I ordered from Seatbelt Planet, so I'll play with that also and post pics.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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It is time for me to order up some belts.

Does this seem reasonable?  I got out a cloth tape and it looks like 110” is more than enough if I go with the 8” extended shoulder loops.

 

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20 minutes ago, Bentworker said:

It is time for me to order up some belts.

Does this seem reasonable?  I got out a cloth tape and it looks like 110” is more than enough if I go with the 8” extended shoulder loops.

 

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Bentworker, I just fitted the 6" anchor sleeves to mine and they work great with the 11" buckle belts I got. If the sleeves were 8" long, they would be perfect. If you can order buckle belts the same length as original, it would be better imo, but without the ridged sleeve that doesn't fit the contour of the tunnel. See pics in bdennis post reply below.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Posted (edited)

@bdennis 

Here are a few more pic that may help. As you can see, the old system is really a lap belt with a shoulder belt that clips in to the buckle tang.  Also, while not as clear as I'd like, the rear belts showing the star burst insert. This is what the front ones would look like. Pic 1746 is the hook that the shoulder belt would hang on to when not in use. There was also a steel spring loop that was clipped into the headliner, but it's been removed on my car. Maybe someone else can post a pic of that.

Other pics are; the new 6" anchor bolt cover sleeve and I tried the semi-ridged sleeve on the drop sash, but I did not like it at all, better to have this flexible as it puts a twist on the belt and makes it harder to reach the tang to pull the belt over the shoulder....... especially with f'd up shoulders!! 

PS. I forgot to mention, you'll need a T 50 torx socket for the anchor bolts.

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Edited by Stanglover
Added info.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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1 hour ago, bdennis said:

Geoff,

Thanks for the pics, They are really helpful. I will take some more of mine and share.

Only too happy to help out. That's what this Forum is all about, helping and sharing.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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There are two completely different types of belts. You have to pay more to get the better ones. Here is screen shot of sticker showing the cost of the deluxe belts. You got the hard sleeves with them.  Deluxe belts were $15.49 image.thumb.png.2391fbf87cfa9c3f8e86a94a829d28da.png

 

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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7 hours ago, Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs said:

There are two completely different types of belts. You have to pay more to get the better ones. Here is screen shot of sticker showing the cost of the deluxe belts. You got the hard sleeves with them.  Deluxe belts were $15.49 image.thumb.png.2391fbf87cfa9c3f8e86a94a829d28da.png

 

Thanks for that information David. On my current car, I'm surprised it even came with wheels, it's so low optioned. I took a look at the pics of my former 72's, both had deluxe interiors, but I don't see any difference in the seat belts, so I was not aware of the deluxe option.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Guys,

Im still on a quest to figure out why the drivers seat belt in my 7/72 Mach 1 is different to all the others.

I have taken a heap more pictures and found a video that explains the differences. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reUlxy7Vr48)

Basically all belts other than the shoulder belts still have date tags on them.

The back seat buckles have Code S 225 and a date code of M2572 The retractor lap belts in the back have the same code.

The front passenger side has a code of R551 and a date code of 2672

The front drivers side has a code of R511 and a date code of 2071. Both the buckle and the lap belt match in terms of code and date.

The driver side is a star burst and the rest of the wreath square button.

Looking at the front retractor, the passenger side has the larger one with the round hole and cap/ plug. It also has the fasten seat belt wire connected to the real. The driver side is smaller and does not have the wire attached. Per the video this seems to be a 1970/71 version. The lap buckle it self on the drivers side is a different size to the passenger side and will not plug in. Again, I think the driver side lap section has been changed at some point.

Also of note the 2 shoulder straps are exactly the same and I believe have not been changed. These both appear to have been brown / ginger where as the rest of the lap belts, and buckles in both types are black.

I suspect that the rear seat has hardly been sat in as the belts and labels are in great condition.

I would be interested to be able to decode the dates on the belts as in the 2572, 2672 and the 2071 dates. Obviously they are either 72 or 71. But would be interested to know if the 2572 and 2672 are pre July when the car was built.

Also of interest the 2 rubber bushes that are on the shoulder straps are still intact and while they look brittle, they still work and hold the strap in place in the buckle.

Does anyone have a late 72 car with the wreath buckles and tags still in place?

Given these lap belts are probably fairly hard to find and I need to replace the belts in the car to be Australian compliant. I'm a bit loathed to pull the belts apart and use the hardware to get them re made with Australian compliant materials. 

Unless I get them to reuse the tags that are on them.. I would also like to find a correct lap belt and buckle with the wreath on them and the square button to replace the odd one in the car..

Thoughts??

Regards

Brendan  

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Hi Brendan,

To me, your belts are a mystery. The belts I have are not the originals to my car, date code totally wrong, but I do know from talking to a PO that they did come out of another 71 Mach 1 he had. All including the back seat belts are the same 7-71. From that I have little doubt my belts are correct in style. What I do see is different manufacturers, so that may account for the difference in date code style or even the buckles. On mine, it is clearly 7-71, July 71 that is and the manufacturer is Hamill MFG.Co.  Neither of the retractors have tags on them. 

Looking at the pictures I have of the 2 '72's I've owned, I don't have any that show the belts in any detail, so that's no help. I'm wondering if some other 72 owners could step up and assist.  They could be simply month/day/year.

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Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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If you had standard interior with ginger I believe you got black std. belts. Also your steering column would be black. If you got Mach 1 sports interior you got ginger belts and ginger column. Then you could to got the deluxe belts another jump up.

 

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Geoff, thanks for the info. All a mystery.

 

David,

My Mach1 has the standard trim package. So it has the black steering column, black crash pad and glove box. Ginger vertical plastic either side of the radio. A ginger std 2 spoke wheel and the std ginger door trims with ginger carpet.

Its interesting that the passenger and drivers shoulder belts are faded brown but the rest are black.

There is no uplift on the belts to deluxe per the Marti report.

All interesting stuff.

I appreciate the help.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I wanted to give an update on my seatbelt planet order.  
 

Don’t order the universal 3 point 301 style belts like I did.  The retractor and the fixed end of the belt cannot be nested on top of one another (they need to on a Mustang).  They make a different set called the DF13 that is designed for the fixed end of the belt and the retractor end of the belt to nest on top of each other and be secured by one bolt.  Also noteworthy is that 110” was too short, not allowing you to lean forward to the wheel.
 

The 8” shoulder extension was pretty cool.  It lowered shoulder belt to a much more comfortable location.

I have reached out to seatbelt planet to see if they would make me up a DF13 set, but with the 8” shoulder extension.  Also to see if they have a slip tongue instead of the grip tongue which runs into the shoulder loop and keeps the retractor from retracting all the way.

I’ll update when I get to trying seatbelt planet version 2.0

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