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Revisiting installing a Hayden 2710 fan clutch and Derale 17118 fan.


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I think that looks good. I agree, no more spacer needed. You technically have a spacer, which is that piece between the pulley and fan clutch.

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20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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I agree Geoff - I recently added the 2710 clutch and Derale fan to mine. When I did it, I did a bit of research about spacers, and realized the setup I had (pre-clutch) had too long a spacer and the fan was sunk well within the shroud. I've read that the ideal is roughly 2/3 in the shroud to maximize the air draw through the radiator and minimize turbulence inside the shroud.

Now, using the 2710 clutch and the Derale fan, i have about 2/3 to 3/4 of the fan in the shroud, and the trailing edge of the fan out.

The roads haven't been suitable to have the car out, but I did start it and let it run a while. It is noticeably quieter at idle while the fan is disengaged - roar of the air coming off the fan is less intrusive. We'll see how she behaves on the road when it warms up, but I',m not anticipating any issues.

Black 1971 Mach 1

351C/FMX/TrickFlow Heads/Lunati Retro Roller Conversion

Classic Auto AC, Manual Front Discs, Upgraded Springs/Shocks/Close-Ratio Steering

 

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1 hour ago, c9zx said:

Interesting read there. If anything, the fan is slightly too far in, but the flat tip of the blades are within the straight part of the shroud opening. I can't bring the fan any further forward, so it is what it is. The only issue might be clearance. The article suggests a min of 1", the 17118 fan yields a clearance of only about 1/2", but I think that will be good as there is very little engine torque movement. A 17" fan would give about that clearance, however most seem to favour the 18" fan, which is what I have of course.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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1 hour ago, 71coop said:

I agree Geoff - I recently added the 2710 clutch and Derale fan to mine. When I did it, I did a bit of research about spacers, and realized the setup I had (pre-clutch) had too long a spacer and the fan was sunk well within the shroud. I've read that the ideal is roughly 2/3 in the shroud to maximize the air draw through the radiator and minimize turbulence inside the shroud.

Now, using the 2710 clutch and the Derale fan, i have about 2/3 to 3/4 of the fan in the shroud, and the trailing edge of the fan out.

The roads haven't been suitable to have the car out, but I did start it and let it run a while. It is noticeably quieter at idle while the fan is disengaged - roar of the air coming off the fan is less intrusive. We'll see how she behaves on the road when it warms up, but I',m not anticipating any issues.

It would seem you have pretty much the same as what I have. If everything is stock, shroud, engine placement, water pump and pulley, then this is what it is. I have not yet fired it up, like I said too damn cold right now to do that, so it will sit till spring.

Thanks for you input, it's much appreciated and that goes to all who have replied and helped me (and hopefully others) out.

 

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Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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17 hours ago, jpaz said:

My fan needed a 1/2” spacer to get it in to the shroud some. Now it’s in the 2/3- 3/4 range like it should be. 

 John looking back at  your pics, there is something different. Your shroud appears to be shallower and your clutch appears to be much closer to the rad than on mine. Also you have a double pulley on the pump. So, a different set-up and there perhaps lies the difference and the need for the spacer.

Way back when I worked at Canadian Fram, (about 1980) we were working on truck fans and fan shrouds, big muvvers! These prototypes were made in steel, but I do remember we worked on various designs with various amounts of fan "inset" for the want of a better description, to get the most effective cooling. 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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20 hours ago, Stanglover said:

It would seem you have pretty much the same as what I have. If everything is stock, shroud, engine placement, water pump and pulley, then this is what it is. I have not yet fired it up, like I said too damn cold right now to do that, so it will sit till spring.

Thanks for you input, it's much appreciated and that goes to all who have replied and helped me (and hopefully others) out.

 

Your engine/fan setup looks almost identical to mine. My rad is aftermarket, but placement of everything is the same.

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Black 1971 Mach 1

351C/FMX/TrickFlow Heads/Lunati Retro Roller Conversion

Classic Auto AC, Manual Front Discs, Upgraded Springs/Shocks/Close-Ratio Steering

 

IMG-2977.jpg

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12 hours ago, jpaz said:

I have an a/c car, maybe that’s why the difference. 

I was thinking you had A/C so yes, that could be different I guess.

What I have now looks to be about right for fan/shroud engagement. I'll have to wait to see how efficient it is WHEN it warms up. 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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1 hour ago, Stanglover said:

I was thinking you had A/C so yes, that could be different I guess.

What I have now looks to be about right for fan/shroud engagement. I'll have to wait to see how efficient it is WHEN it warms up. 

 

1 hour ago, Stanglover said:

I was thinking you had A/C so yes, that could be different I guess.

What I have now looks to be about right for fan/shroud engagement. I'll have to wait to see how efficient it is WHEN it warms up. 

My shroud is brand new from NPD and is the stock replacement. I did measure everything and I made sure to be as close to the right recommendations as possible. I think the pics make it look closer to the radiator than it is.

 It was working good to keep the temp in line with the thermostat. I did have to change the thermostat to a 192*. The engine builder installed a 180* saying that it would be better, but it was running to cold. I only had a chance to drive it a couple times after I went to the 192*, seemed fine.

John - 72 Q Code

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1 hour ago, jpaz said:

 

My shroud is brand new from NPD and is the stock replacement. I did measure everything and I made sure to be as close to the right recommendations as possible. I think the pics make it look closer to the radiator than it is.

 It was working good to keep the temp in line with the thermostat. I did have to change the thermostat to a 192*. The engine builder installed a 180* saying that it would be better, but it was running to cold. I only had a chance to drive it a couple times after I went to the 192*, seemed fine.

John, the important thing is the fit on your car with the components you have. 

On mine as I said, the clutch is about 3" off the rad, but as the straight top part of the blades are directly within the straight part of the shroud, all should be good. I to went back to a 192 Stant thermostat and found the motor ran much better. I do think now that a 180* is a totally wrong approach and that too is what my rebuilder put in. I guess they're not "Cleveland guys".

I'll update later, but as you know, right now ain't the time!

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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1 hour ago, Stanglover said:

John, the important thing is the fit on your car with the components you have. 

On mine as I said, the clutch is about 3" off the rad, but as the straight top part of the blades are directly within the straight part of the shroud, all should be good. I to went back to a 192 Stant thermostat and found the motor ran much better. I do think now that a 180* is a totally wrong approach and that too is what my rebuilder put in. I guess they're not "Cleveland guys".

I'll update later, but as you know, right now ain't the time!

My builder said that the Cleveland was originally put into service with a 180* in 1970. After that they went to the 192* for emission reasons. That’s why he said to run a 180. I’ll have to see what happens in the hotter weather.

 

John - 72 Q Code

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26 minutes ago, jpaz said:

My builder said that the Cleveland was originally put into service with a 180* in 1970. After that they went to the 192* for emission reasons. That’s why he said to run a 180. I’ll have to see what happens in the hotter weather.

 

That's interesting, I wonder where he got his information from? Ford didn't even list a 180º thermostat. My parts book covers 1965 to 1972. Here's a clip out of it, "F" model is Mustangs.

 

Thermostat.JPG

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Seeing those pictures of the viscus drive clutch fan brought back memories. I use to do free lance designs as my second job to get mad money. I designed the heads that cut all the grooves inside the clutch fan halves for Borg Warner. The machine they used cut all of the slots in one shot. It was a machine built during WWII to machine artillery projectiles and built super rigid. You had a series of pockets in the tool head that carbide inserted tools clamped in. If you take one of the clutches apart you will see a series of round grooves that interlock. The silicone fluid inside creates the drive force with it between the grooves. Super simple design for sure.
Later on some really smart engineer convinced them it was time to update and go to CNC. It took the cycle time from a few seconds with the WWII equipment to minutes, he lost his job.
I did some work on gauges for their turbos also. That was really close work did on Moore Jig grinder had to hold .00005" tolerance. Had to be measured in temp. controlled room. That was the gauge tolerance not the part tolerance. They used lots of air gauges and you made set rings to calibrate the air gauge with.
Sorry for off the topic but those fans have little inside to fail but for a leak of the drive fluid or bearing failure.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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1 hour ago, Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs said:

Seeing those pictures of the viscus drive clutch fan brought back memories. I use to do free lance designs as my second job to get mad money. I designed the heads that cut all the grooves inside the clutch fan halves for Borg Warner. The machine they used cut all of the slots in one shot. It was a machine built during WWII to machine artillery projectiles and built super rigid. You had a series of pockets in the tool head that carbide inserted tools clamped in. If you take one of the clutches apart you will see a series of round grooves that interlock. The silicone fluid inside creates the drive force with it between the grooves. Super simple design for sure.
Later on some really smart engineer convinced them it was time to update and go to CNC. It took the cycle time from a few seconds with the WWII equipment to minutes, he lost his job.
I did some work on gauges for their turbos also. That was really close work did on Moore Jig grinder had to hold .00005" tolerance. Had to be measured in temp. controlled room. That was the gauge tolerance not the part tolerance. They used lots of air gauges and you made set rings to calibrate the air gauge with.
Sorry for off the topic but those fans have little inside to fail but for a leak of the drive fluid or bearing failure.

Interesting insight David and no hijacking here (my post). Good to know I don't have to worry too much about a failure. Spring will tell me if I spent my money wisely I guess.

As for some of those old WW II machines, where I worked, we had many WWII machines still in use daily. They would be lucky to get 10-15 years out of the new CNC's.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I used a heavy duty fan clutch and had trouble with the belt slipping over 4k rpm. I had a clutch and plastic fan off a 89 ranger with a 2.3L and it bolted up and kept the car cool and doesn't pull enough power to squeal the belt. Even with underdrive pulley and no fan shroud the car stays cool. I think a heavy duty clutch is not necessary because a light duty keeps it cool. (i am running a large radiator though).

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17 minutes ago, jspears said:

I used a heavy duty fan clutch and had trouble with the belt slipping over 4k rpm. I had a clutch and plastic fan off a 89 ranger with a 2.3L and it bolted up and kept the car cool and doesn't pull enough power to squeal the belt. Even with underdrive pulley and no fan shroud the car stays cool. I think a heavy duty clutch is not necessary because a light duty keeps it cool. (i am running a large radiator though).

That's an interesting point. I'll certainly be aware of pulley slip once I restart the car in Spring.

I've not heard from others about pulley slip and any other issues with this set-up. It would be interesting to know if others have had similar issues. Thanks for bringing that up.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I used to have pulley slip in my first Fox body Mustang. I was running a flex fan and that thing moved a TON of air. Belt dressing used to be a regular thing with that car to keep the belt from squeeling. 

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If you get a viscus drive clutch fan no issue. The fan is driven by resistance of liquid silicone inside the clutch fan. Not like a flex fan that is solid. Flex fans will slip belt i doubt a clutch fan will.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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  • 3 months later...

I wanted to give an update on the low profile Hayden 2765 clutch.  Saturday was hot, like triple digit hot.  Coolant stayed right around thermostat temperature which was good.  
 

However I learned something about the clutch.  The Hayden standard clutches (the 2765 is a standard series clutch) transfer some power to the fan when stone cold, then as soon as they warm up the power transfer is practically nothing until the clutch reaches 170 degrees.  
 

Hayden makes different “duties” of clutches that transfer varying anoint of power in the zone between stone cold and 170.   I decided I wanted more air movement and am going to give a 2947 a try which is “heavy duty” low profile.  It will  mean more horsepower loss, but I got plenty to lose.

On Saturday afternoon I had some vapor lock issues with the heat.  I changed my fuel pump to carburetor line mounting system and insulated the fuel line.  No issues at all on Sunday with new setup.  Note to self- it was a dumb idea to make really cool aluminum clamps and bolt the fuel line to the aluminum cylinder heads.  Was basically a fuel heating system.
 

 

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