What are my options?

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Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
4,308
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Location
San Jose, CA
My Car
1971 M-code Grande
We knew there was a water leak and assumed it was a blown head gasket. On further inspection we found a crack in the block:huh: One of the pistons was stamped .040 and this is an M-code. Why would they bore a Cleveland 20 over and use dome pistons? If this were any other car Except a Mustang I would roll it out to the back yard and shoot it. We have spent too much time, money and work to let a cracked block get in the way of progress :D The Grande has a new interior, engine components and suspension system. So, what are my options? I would be looking for a short block. We have been thinking about putting a mild cam in the now broken block. Would be a good opportunity to make some changes in the engine plus clean out and paint the engine bay. We are going to turn what could be a bad experience into a positive one :idea:

Thanks for the advice.

mike

 
1. Crate motor

2. Crate motor

3. Crate motor

You can look around and find what you want/need cheaper than you can build one most of the time and it has a warranty.

 
Someone here may have one that is close to your location. You might also look here, Ford 335 "Cleveland" Series Engine Forum.webloc . Are the crank and rods good? If so, you could find another block, preferably one that has not been bored. Any cleveland block will do (doesn't need to be 4 bolt). Sorry about the bad news. Chuck

 
You should be able to locate a block fairly easly.Try the 351C forums and classified adds. Look at this as an opportunity to build the engine you want. There are lot's of companies that can build you what you are looking for,probably cheaper than you can do it. Just be sure and do your research! I am sure there are some blocks floating around on this forum also. The good news is that all Cleveland blocks are good blocks,( as long as they have not been abused) and the M codes are the same as the 2 bolt block.

 
Mike,

You say one of the pistons was stamped .040 and then you ask the question (rhetorical?) as to why they would bore the block .020 and then add dome pistons.

Are the other other pistons stamped .040 also? You say or infer you have acquired other engine parts for this motor. What parts have you acquired? This could impact any advice as to what you need to do. Also curious as to where the crack is on the block.

Did you ever post up the casting numbers on the block and heads? I do not recall seeing them.

What are your ULTIMATE plans for your '71 Grande?

All of this information will assist in our making suggestions as to your options.

BT

 
I'll bring up the heresy, I've heard building a 351W is cheaper than the Cleveland, presumably because parts are easier to come by? The guys on the Cleveland forum referenced above are doing wonders with 400Ms also...

 
There area lot of good blocks out there. Me personally I want to know what I have and how it is built. Not sure of your mechanical aspirations, but if you build it and problems arise you generally know where to start looking. Crate motors are good and come with a warranty, but me, I think the cost vs seeing it with my own eyes helps me sleep better. Not to mention bragging rights to the winner :p

 
Last edited by a moderator:
How much do you want to spend, there are some great deals on motors in Arizona that put out over 400Hp for less than 3.5K. And they get decent gas mileage.

 
We knew there was a water leak and assumed it was a blown head gasket. On further inspection we found a crack in the block:huh: One of the pistons was stamped .040 and this is an M-code. Why would they bore a Cleveland 20 over and use dome pistons? If this were any other car Except a Mustang I would roll it out to the back yard and shoot it. We have spent too much time, money and work to let a cracked block get in the way of progress :D The Grande has a new interior, engine components and suspension system. So, what are my options? I would be looking for a short block. We have been thinking about putting a mild cam in the now broken block. Would be a good opportunity to make some changes in the engine plus clean out and paint the engine bay. We are going to turn what could be a bad experience into a positive one :idea:

Thanks for the advice.

mike
Hey, Mike. I like your positive attitude. You've been around here long enough to weigh the pros and cons of the responses. Roy's crate engine idea would be the least stressful, yet if you can answer BT's questions honestly, you will have a great experience and a great car. You know, it's always up to you, and your checkbook. :) As a not-as-young-as-I-used-to-be-always-busy-guy, I might choose the crate. If I were a bit younger and wanted the cool "did-it-myself" badge, I'd get the Haynes overhaul manual and roll up my sleeves (which is where I'm at right now at 51 years old). :D LOL

But honestly, if I had a bigger checkbook, I'd go for option one.

Doc

 
I would have to say 'No' to the crate engine idea. Why? Cost.

Here's my cost comparison between replacing my 351C-2V with a crate engine, and simply rebuilding it myself.

Rebuild:

- $1000 for machine work (tanked, bored, balanced, blueprinted, head work, valve job, install hardened valve seats, mount pistons, etc) - saved $450 labor because I'll be assembling it myself (which is half the fun for me)

- $350 pistons & rings

- $950 complete roller cam kit (including timing, lifters, valve springs/seals, push rods, cam bearings, etc)

- $550 engine rebuild kit (oil pump, all gaskets & seals, freeze plugs, harmonic balancer)

- $200 roller rockers

- $220 Edelbrock intake

- $270 Edelbrock carb

- $250 valve covers, oil pan, dipstick, other engine chrome stuff

- $250 water pump, paint, cap & rotor, wires, spark plugs, other engine sundries

Rough total cost: $4000-ish

Crate engine:

- First of all, they don't make a crate engine kit for a 351 Cleveland.

- Next best thing - Ford Racing 302 "Boss" (306 CID/340hp - Summit Racing) $6500

- $220 Edelbrock intake

- $270 Edelbrock carb

- $200 distributor

- $200 water pump, cap & rotor, wires, spark plugs, other engine sundries.

Rough total cost: $7400-ish

I don't know anything about the 'BluePrint' engines... although they might be doable. But from what I saw of the value engines, the less you pay for 'not included' parts, they more you pay to get them later. The other engines are freaken expensive! (Sorry, but more than $10K for just the engine is a bit much, IMHO... but if ya got it - why not...)

That was a tough decision for me... :rolleyes: :D

I agree with FastE: Find another 351C block and press on with your build plans. Good luck!

 
If you are willing to spend that much then you need to buy from the local guy in your area I was talking about. For that amount you can get a 450HP fire breather with all of those items included.

 
Mike,

You say one of the pistons was stamped .040 and then you ask the question (rhetorical?) as to why they would bore the block .020 and then add dome pistons.

Are the other other pistons stamped .040 also? You say or infer you have acquired other engine parts for this motor. What parts have you acquired? This could impact any advice as to what you need to do. Also curious as to where the crack is on the block.

Did you ever post up the casting numbers on the block and heads? I do not recall seeing them.

What are your ULTIMATE plans for your '71 Grande?

All of this information will assist in our making suggestions as to your options.

BT
Just posted a detailed reply with pictures and it got lost in cyberspace.

A synopsis. Never got the pictures of the casting # as we were too bummed out about the crack and that fell by the wayside. Only one of the pistons was stamped. Have not seen the crack but it is in the lower half of one cylinder. We thought about installing a sleeve, but only for a moment :s The rest of the engine is in prestine condition with excellent heads and no wear on the lifters. We installed a new water pump, oil pan and carb with the rest of the additions being mostly cosmetic. I have access to a garage with all the toys and a lift. My mechanic, from whom I bought the car, wants to buy it back some day so the car is in good hands. So it comes down to buying a short block or a block and using the existing parts. All expertise and facilities are free aside from the occassional bottle of wine, steak dinner and Sharks tickets :p So it is just the cost of the parts. I want to keep it as original as possible.

mike

 
I would have to say 'No' to the crate engine idea. Why? Cost.

Here's my cost comparison between replacing my 351C-2V with a crate engine, and simply rebuilding it myself.

Rebuild:

- $1000 for machine work (tanked, bored, balanced, blueprinted, head work, valve job, install hardened valve seats, mount pistons, etc) - saved $450 labor because I'll be assembling it myself (which is half the fun for me)

- $350 pistons & rings

- $950 complete roller cam kit (including timing, lifters, valve springs/seals, push rods, cam bearings, etc)

- $550 engine rebuild kit (oil pump, all gaskets & seals, freeze plugs, harmonic balancer)

- $200 roller rockers

- $220 Edelbrock intake

- $270 Edelbrock carb

- $250 valve covers, oil pan, dipstick, other engine chrome stuff

- $250 water pump, paint, cap & rotor, wires, spark plugs, other engine sundries

Rough total cost: $4000-ish

Crate engine:

- First of all, they don't make a crate engine kit for a 351 Cleveland.

- Next best thing - Ford Racing 302 "Boss" (306 CID/340hp - Summit Racing) $6500

- $220 Edelbrock intake

- $270 Edelbrock carb

- $200 distributor

- $200 water pump, cap & rotor, wires, spark plugs, other engine sundries.

Rough total cost: $7400-ish

I don't know anything about the 'BluePrint' engines... although they might be doable. But from what I saw of the value engines, the less you pay for 'not included' parts, they more you pay to get them later. The other engines are freaken expensive! (Sorry, but more than $10K for just the engine is a bit much, IMHO... but if ya got it - why not...)

That was a tough decision for me... :rolleyes: :D

I agree with FastE: Find another 351C block and press on with your build plans. Good luck!
Sometimes you have to get away from the big box stores and look around. found this one in about 2 minutes and if i had more time I have found a lot higher HP in the past for not much more money. Just did not save it.

http://www.precisionengine.com/rebuilt-engines/ford-crate-engines/mach1.html

 
The reason "blueprinting" adds so much to the cost of a purchased motor is because it is 100% labor. eliminating the +/- of the parts by filing the rings, bearings and such to obtain specified clearances. Most folks don't have the patience or the micrometers needed to do this. They want to get it running with "thats close enough". :rolleyes:

 
Mike if you can't find anything local I have a couple of 351 C blocks but the truck frt might be pricey.

For me 30 over is the max on a Cleveland

I scraped a fresh 40 over block & pistons out of one of the parts cars.

Good luck, let me know if I can help

Don

 
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