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Old metal vs new metal..


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So in looking for answers to my pillar repair and thinking about the other repairs I am going to be  tackling I started wondering about scrap metal and what to source the stuff from. 

 So my question is.. is there really much difference on the quality and worthiness between vintage body steel and late model ?  Is it worth the time and effort to find earlier cars to cut panels from for patching vs more readily available stuff?

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The only reason I would use vintage metal is if it were the patch panel for the piece I need to repair, or had the right curve to it, to save the time spent shaping the patch. When I've made my own patch panels I've used new sheet metal that's the correct thickness. Easier to start with a clean flat piece than something that has paint, rust, and wrong curvature.  Plus, the sheet metal on new cars will be thinner.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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+1 with what Don said.  But if it were me, I would just get a hold of Don at OMS and get that section from a donor car and patch it in. It will save you a ton of fab time and will fit properly. 

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Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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I am a retired automotive product, process and tooling engineer. The metals used in the newer vehicles is very different from the old. Ford used a lot of what is called Bake Hard steel. After the parts are formed and the car goes through paint and the bake oven the steel picks up almost a spring steel property. This was to help prevent door dings. The japanese cars do not use it and you see way more door dings in them. Also pretty much all exterior metal is low spangle zinc coated so not good to weld.
One issue with repo parts is that they use very low carbon steel so if you lean on the car you can bend the quarter and it not pop back out. The original steel was probably a 1006 cold rolled raw steel. When formed it picks up a little strength because of work hardening. If a whole panel needs replacing a good restoration shop cuts out the date stamp like on a fender and welds it into the repo panel so it look more original.
Without an english wheel and some experience difficult to make your own patch panels.
Lots of panels on new cars just cannot have a dent or hit hammered out and fixed just will not work.
A good friend of mine that has a tool & die shop built temporary dies to form quarter panels out of the Bake Hard steel for Petty racing. They could rub fenders a little harder and not bend in or bounced back.

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When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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3 hours ago, Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs said:

I am a retired automotive product, process and tooling engineer. The metals used in the newer vehicles is very different from the old. Ford used a lot of what is called Bake Hard steel. After the parts are formed and the car goes through paint and the bake oven the steel picks up almost a spring steel property. This was to help prevent door dings. The japanese cars do not use it and you see way more door dings in them. Also pretty much all exterior metal is low spangle zinc coated so not good to weld.
One issue with repo parts is that they use very low carbon steel so if you lean on the car you can bend the quarter and it not pop back out. The original steel was probably a 1006 cold rolled raw steel. When formed it picks up a little strength because of work hardening. If a whole panel needs replacing a good restoration shop cuts out the date stamp like on a fender and welds it into the repo panel so it look more original.
Without an english wheel and some experience difficult to make your own patch panels.
Lots of panels on new cars just cannot have a dent or hit hammered out and fixed just will not work.
A good friend of mine that has a tool & die shop built temporary dies to form quarter panels out of the Bake Hard steel for Petty racing. They could rub fenders a little harder and not bend in or bounced back.

Dang that a really good explanation. Thank you for the knowledge drop 

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Thank you David.

 This what I was thinking was the case. It just seemed logical that older cars metal was much tougher than modern stuff.. and I was thinking that maybe  better to use for repairs if available. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not really. The old cars like Model T and Model A used pretty much what we would call junk steel today. Might be thicker but the alloy sucks. I might have mentioned that the repo parts use a very low carbon content steel and will bend if you lean on the car which is bad. When you for a part you actually work harden the metal which helps keep dents out. The new Bake Hard steels are like a spring steel and resist the door dings but very difficult to hammer and dolly anything at all. Probably the better choice is 1008 / 1010 CRS for making small patch panels. Should be easy to find.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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