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Front wheel bearing allowable "wobble"


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For the front, how much should I be able to "wobble" the tires. I mean grabbing the tire at 12 and 6 o'clock and pushing/pulling alternatively. I can wobble them a "little" but I wonder if there is a spec. It is not the suspension since it is all brand new and I can see that the wobble is coming from the hub. I checked the bearings and they look brand new with no metal chips, pitting or noise when driving. I retightened them following the instructions in the manual and still have the same little wobble. I read that there is some amount that is expected but I am interesting in understanding how much is good/bad. Any ideas? Can you wobble yours?

Edited by tony-muscle
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1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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Hi Tony  
I was worried about one of my fronts - I took the cap off - removed the split pin and rotated the castle 1/4 of a turn and all seems well  :thumb:

but another 1000 miles I will replace anyway for peace of mind .

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Enjoy's searching out 71-73 history

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Or, maybe the wheel bearing are a little slack and just need to be tightened a smidge. I'd check that first.

It looked like others were typing at the same time I was and with the same idea.

Edited by Stanglover

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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12 minutes ago, MikeGriese said:

There really shouldn't be any movement.  Might be ball joints, or depending on age, the bushes on the upper and lower control arms, or maybe even loose lugs. 

All is new and I can see the movement at the hub, but not the spindle.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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4 minutes ago, Bentworker said:

What bearing instructions are you following?

 

The instructions from the shop manual. In my car, the spindles are the stock ones but the disc hub is from Wilwood.

Capture.JPG.bdc220a7f99ce6ce9cdb81ba4aba3a26.JPG

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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Getting the initial torque setting is the key to getting them adjusted correctly. Turn them several times and check the torque again.

You also have to take into consideration that these specs were for stock wheels and tires. With larger wheels and tires the 'bending moment' on the bearings will be greater and I would compensate by torquing to the upper range, both initial and final.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Measuring spindle nut torque with an inch pound wrench or going with the finger tight method?

Personally I believe it is better to run bearings a little tight vs loose.

Sometime during bearing replacement the races are not fully seated.  Driving a bit can result in the races seating and the bearings loosening up.

If it was my car I’d tighten the spindle nuts a bit (max 5 foot pounds) then go for a drive.  If you don’t have one already an infrared thermometer is a great tool for things like this.  Too little preload and the bearings can beat themselves up from play.  Too much preload and they can also self destruct from overheating.  If you have them tight enough that there is no play, and they don’t get too warm you should be good to go.  If the infrared shows your hub to be about ambient temp plus 20 degrees F or so I’d call it good. 

A lot of other wheel bearing applications that are bigger like the Dana Spicer solid axles run tons of preload wirh no ill affect.

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7 minutes ago, Don C said:

Getting the initial torque setting is the key to getting them adjusted correctly. Turn them several times and check the torque again.

You also have to take into consideration that these specs were for stock wheels and tires. With larger wheels and tires the 'bending moment' on the bearings will be greater and I would compensate by torquing to the upper range, both initial and final.

Good points. I will try that. I was reading that for bearing life it is better to err on the side of tighter. It doesn't mean that some end play is terrible. It just means that the bearings will wear faster.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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I would start by using races/bearings of good hard metal quality. Timken for instance. Affordable and reliable.
Well lubricated there should be no noticeable wear when torqued first time to specs for thousands of miles. Even for wider tires.
Tho, during first 100 miles it would make sense to check if there is no play.

Also make sure you use new hardware for the retainer. They are cheap. Also and I've seen it on my 71, make sure you have the dust cover on that is ment to keep the grease.

Personally if a "wobble" would be present after more than 500 miles since install, I would consider change them again asap as they have likely created some lows into the race that will fail sooner than you want, even if re-torquing fixes for now.

Edited by Fabrice

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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I've heard some Timken boxed products are not US made now. I'd confirm with Timken where the bearings are made. An alternative Is Koyo bearings made in Japan. American businesses have out sourced WAY too many things and government policies helped that along. Chuck

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25 minutes ago, c9zx said:

I've heard some Timken boxed products are not US made now

Timken is also manufacturing over here, same good reputation as far as I know, but somehow they did not have the ref to deliver and I had to order as usual in the states to have the right parts. I don't think outsourcing perse means lesser quality. Moog is similar. As long as they do not cut into specs. I don't really care about where that comes from and there should be no diff in quality. Surely wish. as they play global, that they would ensure you can at least order US specs from here.
Off topic but in regard to your comment, If there is one US company that grows fast up in my book atm it's Sonnax. Bought few parts for my trans and a yoke from them and was really impressed with the quality of the stuff they delivered. Something really refreshing.

Edited by Fabrice

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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Out sourcing without qualified, diligent, and effective on-site QC as well as in US QC seems to be the problem. The problems I see most often are poor metallurgy, poor heat treating, and poor machining tolerances. I could site many personally experienced car parts failures that have cost me thousands of dollars. Out sourced parts can be good quality. For example Callies Compstar cranks are made in China with aggressive QC there and here. There is also a strategic downside to not having diverse and large manufacturing capability at home. The new car and truck shortage here was caused by a computer chip shortage, the chips are made in China. I agree, Sonnax makes great transmission parts. You do great work, keep it up. Chuck

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We went from wobble to offshore manufacturing. I don't think my issue is related to metallurgy. We will see! Thank you for all your responses.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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9 hours ago, tony-muscle said:

We will see!

I'm sure it will be ok. The good news is that may you need to replace, it's relatively cheap and an easy fix to do.
For now, forget about it and enjoy what's left of the good driving season with your good looking new shoes! :D

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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I would not want to see any wobble in a bearing or hub. 

Since I had a "good" quality bearing fail on me on the way to Power Tour 2019 I've decided front wheel bearings are an annual maintenance item. A thorough inspection and repack at the minimum. Wheel bearings are still inexpensive enough to replace regularly. One other thing... NEVER put a new bearing on a used race, that's asking for trouble. 

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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That's very true, they SHOULD. The hubs and spindles are in good condition. I'm using the one piece rotor/hub combination. I've had other issues over recent years with poor quality bearings on a couple of brand new work trailers. If I were just driving around town on occasional weekends I wouldn't worry as much but breaking down 10 hours from home, in the rain, on I-40, with a very minimal shoulder taught me a boy scout lesson... LOL! 

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, droptop73 said:

That's very true, they SHOULD. The hubs and spindles are in good condition. I'm using the one piece rotor/hub combination. I've had other issues over recent years with poor quality bearings on a couple of brand new work trailers. If I were just driving around town on occasional weekends I wouldn't worry as much but breaking down 10 hours from home, in the rain, on I-40, with a very minimal shoulder taught me a boy scout lesson... LOL! 

Good point. I will go ahead and buy spare bearings just in case. They are cheap and small to carry an extra set around.

Edited by tony-muscle

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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On the wobble. Check to see that your nut is not bottoming out on the threads on the spindle. You might try putting an extra washer on the outside just to make sure it is not bottomed out and giving you a wrong torque reading. Maybe spindle threads not long enough.
You might try swapping sides with the hub and see if it wobbles on both spindles.
One mistake some owner's make when installing any bearing it to hit it with a hammer. Yes in an emergency you can use a piece of pipe to hit only the inner race on a ball bearing. You should always use a hydraulic press to install bearings and especially the races in the hub.

I had two uncles that worked for Timken bearing in Canton Ohio. I got to do a full tour of the facility from making the steel to finished products out the door. They made bearings you could sit inside, for the steel rolling mills, down to tiny small ones. The tolerances are held to millionths of an inch. Pretty much all gauges were air gauges to be able to check close enough. Tapered bearings like in the front hubs are much easier to make than ball bearings. If the outer race is a little bigger it just lets the bearing cage drop in a little deeper. As long as the angles on the races and bearings are right it all works out.
If Covid had not hit I was headed to China to follow tooling being built for Timken bearing. Just by chance met the buyer and nobody at Timken wanted to go to China. Why I do not know safer there than here. I need to make contact with him now I could use some mad money.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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I use the same bearing tightening procedure and finger-tighten the nut to the point it takes out any noticeable slack or movement in the rotor. Spin the rotor while torqueing, back off, then turn the nut in while rocking the top of the rotor in and out. Once there is no noticeable play, I'll put the cage and cotter in place. Never had any bearing failures with this procedure. 

FWIW, I always replace the races in rotor assemblies, do not trust them. Will only use USA or Japanese made bearings, whatever the brand. 

 

 

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