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need a motorcraft/autolite distributor. I have a "parts store" one and the pertronix will not work in it, wrong size cam

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Cardone Select has one. It's a Chinese knock off, but looks exact other than metric threads. Also, I'm not sure how good the gear quality is. Finding a good original Cleveland Autolite may be tough these days. Cardone may have one as a remanufactured or they may do a R&R service.

I have one of the Chinese things I keep as a back up, that I have already modified the T slot to match the 10L slot needed if you want to run 14-16 degrees of initial timing. The 10L give the equivalent of 20 degrees on the cam timing for a total of 34-36 total mechanical timing. After that, you'll need to play with the springs (type and tension) to get the correct curve especially if your motor is higher compression. That's been my experience anyway. If you can't do that, a distributor with a 15L or 13L slot will work, but to keep the total mechanical timing to less than 36 degrees, your initial timing will be less, like 6-10 degrees respectively.

Pic #253 is my distributor in which I use a Pertronix II and matching coil. Pic# 257 is the Cardone Select version with a welded and re-cut T slot to 10L.

Hope this helps. 

 

DSC00253_LI (4).jpg

DSC00257_L2.jpg

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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  • 2 weeks later...
11 hours ago, Stanglover said:

I hope it works for you. Let us know if there is any help you need.

It was nasty, pulled it apart this morning, gave it a bath. Plan on posting a few photos. Also pertronix stuff, very little price difference between their three versions. Is there any downside as to what I choose? Looking at "igniter III" as it looks to replace the plate.

 

Electronic Ignition Conversion | PerTronix 71281 Ignitor III Adaptive Dwell Control Multiple Spark with Digital Rev Limiter Ford 8 cyl (pertronixbrands.com)

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12 hours ago, Ryunker said:

It was nasty, pulled it apart this morning, gave it a bath. Plan on posting a few photos. Also pertronix stuff, very little price difference between their three versions. Is there any downside as to what I choose? Looking at "igniter III" as it looks to replace the plate.

 

Electronic Ignition Conversion | PerTronix 71281 Ignitor III Adaptive Dwell Control Multiple Spark with Digital Rev Limiter Ford 8 cyl (pertronixbrands.com)

From my personal experience, do NOT buy the Ford version of the Ignitor III UNLESS there has been a major design change. A short back story. In 2012, I had my engine rebuilt. The builder installed an Ignitor III. I could never get the timing to be consistent. The car was put on a dyno and with a digital timing light, the timing could be seen drifting. Later, I had a friend put it on a distributor machine. We could easily see the problem. On the Ford version, with the plates, there is/was a crappy plastic "bushing" that the plates revolve around. This bushing was allowing the plates to not only move laterally, but up and down as well. The meant that the "air gap" that is supposed to be .030", was anywhere between about .010" to .050". After contacting Pertronix with this data, the distributor was returned and they replaced it with a Pertronix Ignitor II and a matching coil (VERY important!!). I'm NOT saying it is a bad unit electronically, but a poor mechanical piece of engineering. Now, to be honest, I have NOT looked at them in the last few years, so hopefully, they have re-engineered the plate bushing to a bearing. If this had a similar bearing as the DuraSpark distributor, it would be a good unit.

MY advice, buy a Pertronix Ignitor II along with the matching coil. 

EDIT: Why not look at buying a DuraSpark. They can be bought set up and curved to your engine specs, but I forget the name, maybe Performance Distributors. Be aware of Chinese knock offs.

Edited by Stanglover

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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+1 on what Geoff said.  We had several Petronix 3 go bad on my parents 66.  Put in the original ignitor 1 and had 0 issues since.   Also the duraspark systems work great too, I installed them in several cars over the years. 

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, jpaz said:

I also have the pertronix 1 and use a stock coil with zero issues for the last 7 years.

Good point John. A Pertronix Ignitor I can be run on reduce (resisted) voltage and stock coil. The PII (and PIII) NEEDS a full 12V and higher output coil. These can be run off a Pertronix relay without the need to cut out or bypass the old pink resistor wire.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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1 hour ago, Stanglover said:

Good point John. A Pertronix Ignitor I can be run on reduce (resisted) voltage and stock coil. The PII (and PIII) NEEDS a full 12V and higher output coil. These can be run off a Pertronix relay without the need to cut out or bypass the old pink resistor wire.

Yes, a Pertronix ignitor 1 runs with the resisted voltage but it runs better with full 12V. If you want to keep your standard coil and resistant wire you just need to install a relay for the switched 12V feed.
Attention! Keep in mind that you can blow a Pertronix Ignitor 1 very fast when ignition is on but engine is not running.

Frank

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1972 Mach 1, 351C-2V, wimbledon white, blue all vinyl luxury

born in Dearborn, grown in the district of San José, spent a lifetime in California, moved to Germany in 2010

Mustang_Mach1_wallpaper_300_150.jpg proud member of clublogozusammen.JPG.59fb4a10d15cfff9ec756235059135b8.JPG

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Took into consideration what Stanglover posted about the igniter three. I called petronix asked questions about all three versions along with warranty problems. Their answers and explanations were very good, did not seam scripted. I went ahead and ordered the igniter three, matching coil and a set of wires.

Also again Stanglover made a good point about the full 12v. Running it off a relay would help.

WIN_20210922_18_18_02_Pro.jpg

WIN_20210922_18_18_11_Pro.jpg

WIN_20210922_18_18_21_Pro.jpg

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So, I was looking at the wiring diagram in preparations for installing an igniter III and I see circuit 16 that feeds the coil is a resistance wire off the ignition switch. How and where does this circuit get modified and be "hidden" from plain sight.

 

Currently, I also have the electric choke tied into the same circuit.

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Your best bet is to use that wire that would go to the + side of the coil as a trigger for a relay, the output then would go to the + side of the coil.  If you have a factory tach, though, this method will not provide the appropriate signal for the tach. 

Let me check your shorts!

http://midlifeharness.com

cactus.jpg.92e5d9d8700abc0ed60c8ccb3426248e.jpg

 

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7 hours ago, midlife said:

Your best bet is to use that wire that would go to the + side of the coil as a trigger for a relay, the output then would go to the + side of the coil.  If you have a factory tach, though, this method will not provide the appropriate signal for the tach. 

I do have an "inoperative" factory tach. Suggestions?

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13 hours ago, Ryunker said:

Took into consideration what Stanglover posted about the igniter three. I called petronix asked questions about all three versions along with warranty problems. Their answers and explanations were very good, did not seam scripted. I went ahead and ordered the igniter three, matching coil and a set of wires.

Also again Stanglover made a good point about the full 12v. Running it off a relay would help.

WIN_20210922_18_18_02_Pro.jpg

WIN_20210922_18_18_11_Pro.jpg

WIN_20210922_18_18_21_Pro.jpg

Well, that distributor doesn't look too bad. All the parts can be cleaned up including the plates. My concern would be the shaft busing. Can you feel any side movement in it? The bushing can be replaced, but you'd need a press of some sort.

As you've decided to install a Pertronix Ignitor III, I wish you luck with it. Time will tell I guess. Hopefully Pertronix have improved that stupid plastic bearing they had in there originally. Personally, I wouldn't trust it, but that said, the electronic part of it was pretty good as it also has a rev limiter. On a side note, I also had a PII bad right out of the box. The problem was, it sat on a shelf for 3 years and was just out of warranty and Pertronix would not honor it. That cost me $180 Cdn.! Doing it again, I'd go DuraSpark.

As for the resistor wire, I pulled the terminal from the socket under the dash, cut the wire and replaced it with a 12g wire directly to the coil. I don't have a factory tach, so I did not have to worry about that issue. The electric choke had been wired by a PO, so I'm not sure where it is connected, but it works correctly, so I guess it's good.

All the best, 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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5 hours ago, Ryunker said:

I do have an "inoperative" factory tach. Suggestions?

There are two basic failure modes: if the car starts with the tach installed, then the gauge guts are bad.  If the car cannot start with the tach installed, then the input transformer to the tach is bad and won't pass current to the coil. 

The third possibility is that your tach has been bypassed and simply doesn't see any signals.

Let me check your shorts!

http://midlifeharness.com

cactus.jpg.92e5d9d8700abc0ed60c8ccb3426248e.jpg

 

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15 hours ago, Ryunker said:

So, I was looking at the wiring diagram in preparations for installing an igniter III and I see circuit 16 that feeds the coil is a resistance wire off the ignition switch. How and where does this circuit get modified and be "hidden" from plain sight.

 

Currently, I also have the electric choke tied into the same circuit.

With both the coil and choke connected through the resistor wire all you would be getting to both the coil and choke is around 5 to 6 volts, it's a wonder that your engine would run or the choke would get warm enough to open.

Edited by Don C
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“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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13 minutes ago, Don C said:

With both the coil and choke connected through the resistor wire all you would be getting to both the coil and choke is around 5 to 6 volts, it's a wonder that your engine would run or the choke would get warm enough to open.

I was going to bring up the same point. I inadvertently did that years ago on my Opel. Wasn't sure if it was the same on the Mustangs or not.

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14 minutes ago, detritusmaximus said:

I was going to bring up the same point. I inadvertently did that years ago on my Opel. Wasn't sure if it was the same on the Mustangs or not.

So what is a good solution? The time to address this is before I pull my hair out. Stanglover, more specific on bypassing the resistor?

 

Where is a good place to tie in the electric choke?

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Where did Ford connect for electric chokes?

On the Opel I ran a new nonresistor wire to the coil and connected my choke wire to that. But it was easy to connect to the fuse box where the resistor wire was originally and ran the wire thru the firewall. Easy, but a different type of car.

The relay sounds good. Similar to what we do on the Opel GT to eliminate all the headlight power going thru the dash/fuse box (makes for bad electrical fires...). We run new power off the battery/auxiliary fuse box under the hood with fuses and a relay. The relay is controlled by your original wiring. A few extra items under the hood and no surgery, no changes in the dash.

But, with using the resistor wire, will it activate the 12v relay? 

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51 minutes ago, Ryunker said:

So what is a good solution? The time to address this is before I pull my hair out. Stanglover, more specific on bypassing the resistor?

 

Where is a good place to tie in the electric choke?

Hi Ryunker,

Pdf diagram will show the 71 stock choke hookup.

Jpg diagram will show the resistor wire you may not have noticed.

I just installed my resistor wire bypass and tach conversion, but didn't use the wire yet until I buy a 12V coil.

happy trails

ken

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Ryunker.pdf

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Ford connected the choke to the stator connector on the alternator. This provides power only when the engine is running, so leaving the key on will not cause the choke to open. However, this only provides around 8 volts and aftermarket carburetors require 12 volts. This may slow down the aftermarket choke opening slightly.

The Pertronix relay is designed to operate on the reduced voltage from the resistor wire to the coil, so it would connect there.

If you have an aftermarket carburetor I would add another Pertronix relay for the choke, triggered by the stator and powering the choke with battery voltage, easier than running a wire from the fuse block and through the firewall. Or, if you're not concerned with the choke opening when the key is on, power it from the relay for the Pertronix module. As noted previously, leaving the Pertronix module powered with the engine not running is likely to damage it.

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“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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The Opels originally had hot water chokes, nothing electric, so no oem hookup option for us. Smart people replace the oem Solex with an aftermarket Weber 32/36. That can be set up with hot water, electric or manual chokes. Most go electric to get rid of extra plumbing.

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3 hours ago, Don C said:

Ford connected the choke to the stator connector on the alternator. This provides power only when the engine is running, so leaving the key on will not cause the choke to open. However, this only provides around 8 volts and aftermarket carburetors require 12 volts. This may slow down the aftermarket choke opening slightly.

The Pertronix relay is designed to operate on the reduced voltage from the resistor wire to the coil, so it would connect there.

If you have an aftermarket carburetor I would add another Pertronix relay for the choke, triggered by the stator and powering the choke with battery voltage, easier than running a wire from the fuse block and through the firewall. Or, if you're not concerned with the choke opening when the key is on, power it from the relay for the Pertronix module. As noted previously, leaving the Pertronix module powered with the engine not running is likely to damage it.

This "pertronix relay" comes with something, or I need to source it seperate?

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42 minutes ago, Ryunker said:

This "pertronix relay" comes with something, or I need to source it seperate?

It's a separate purchase as far as I know, that's why I didn't get one!! 

You asked how I disconnected the pink resistor wire. I found the wire in the junction of the steering column harness and fuse block If I remember, been a while. I did not at that time, have those handy tools to unclip the pin connectors, so I used a very small flat blade screwdriver to unclip the pin. Then I just cut the resistor wire and terminated it, opened the crimp to remove the old bits of wire and soldered in the 12 gauge wire. There are not too many places to fish the wire through the firewall, so I think I just pushed it through beside another wire. It's a case of figure it out as you go I'm afraid. As for the choke wire, I'm not sure where the PO hooked it up, but I do know it's on a 12V keyed circuit. It works fine, so not a concern. I did however wrap all the new wire to the coil and choke etc. with loom wrap tape, just to make it look perdy.

Somewhere, I have a diagram of the Pertronix relay, but where I don't know right now. I'm sure it is probably on their website. You may also find it here in a search. 

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Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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