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Modern Driveline quote


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OK,

Truth be known, I have been looking for a 5 speed manual for quite sometime, Decide to email Modern Driveline and ask for a quote.

I tell them what I have (71 stang, 408 C , zero balance flywheel @ 164 tooth count and using OEM aluminum bell with 11'' long clutch which is already dialed in

to near perfect runout.

I assumed they would offer me a 10 spline transmission pn # MD- 501-18086, Nope they want to sell me a 26 spline ( pn 501-17765 along with a quicktime bell @ $777.00 , a clutch cable kit for $249.00, shift lever for$ 136.00 and all the other goodies for a total of $4,855 when their transmission sells for only $2,799.00.

On top of that, I would still have to switch to a 26 spline clutch disc and still get a shortened driveshaft.

So my options are, go with the 10 spline transmission and a bellhousing adapter and non stock release arm and or hydraulic release bearing set up and still a custom driveshaft ?

How about a input shaft that requires no special bellhousing, no adapter plate and be able to use the OEM  driveshaft ?

Is it just me, or is Tremec going about this all wrong ?

Boilermaster  

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I would reply to them and tell them that you want to use your existing bellhousing and 10 spline clutch and want to know what they have that will work. I would also mention that you want to know what the lengths of each one is. At least it's easy and not expensive to have a driveline shortened by a competent shop.

Sounds like someone is working on a commission or for a bonus.

Edited by Don C

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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They probably quoted you that kit, since that's what most people would order.  FWIW, the 26 spline is stronger than the 10 spline Ford type. If you're not racing all the time or using sticky tires, then you should be fine.

Dimensions are under the specs tab on Modern's site. 

https://www.moderndriveline.com/shop/transmissions/5-speed-transmissions/tkx/ford-tkx/tremec-ford-tkx500-3-27-1st-gear-with-68-od-10-spline-input/

The length minus the input is the same as the toploader at 24 1/4". The input is longer than a toploader, I did a quick measurement on one of mine and it came out to 6.5". That might be the reason for the QT bell quote, but it seems stupid for them to use a longer input. Wondering if it can be shortened to use the factory bell. 

 

 

 

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Hemikiller,

I would be elated if I only had to get just a 26 spline clutch disc.

I did email MD and asked if the input shaft could be shortened of if I would have to purchase an extra and shorten it myself.

I will have to research and see if all the mounting bolt patterns for the 26 spline units are the same as toploader.

Also just a guess, but with no quicktime bell or adapter plate, would the  TKX transmission crossmember be rendered useless ?

Not that it would be difficult to build one.

Would be very nice to buy this transmission for $ 2795 without not a lot of extra parts and have it look like it belongs in the car.

Will do my research and see what I can come up with, BTY, if you have the toploader bolt pattern specs handy you could post them.

Boilermaster

 

 

 

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OK,

So only the 10 spline transmission offers the Ford (wide pattern) which I am guessing is 8-1/2'' x 6-1/4'' with 4-13/16'' opening

All the 26 spline transmissions are (TKO) bolt pattern.

Both 501-18085 (26 spline) and 501-18086 (10 spline) offer a shortened input shaft (guessing that is special order ? and would have to wait for it to be manufactured.

The bellhousing adapter does (fix) the input shaft length issue, but pretty sure it adds driveshaft length issue.

Would have to see what wait time would be for shortened input vs perhaps buying or shortening my driveshaft, then there's the crossmember issue.

501-18085 (26 spline) is on backorder while 501-18086 has limited stock, so it looks like it is hurry up and wait or hurry up and spend.

Boilermaster

P.S. I do have somewhat sticky tires 275/50r15 Nitto drag radials, I don't drag race a lot, but I like spirited driving.

Boilermaster

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This just in.

I kind of remember when I was searching for my aluminum bellhousing (C5az 6392 d) that I went thru about 3 or 4 bells that had the same small block pattern (engine) and trans pattern that were about 1/2'' too deep and are for 1983-84 ford trucks David Kee makes mention of this on his web sight.

Ebay also tries to sucker mustang people into buying these for our cars, I know these are for 164 tooth flywheel and 11'' clutch, just don't know which ones would be for hydraulic or mechanical linkage, got the bell I am using now for like 20 or 30 bucks, might have to visit this place again in the near future.

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I would call them and get their tech guy on the phone to discuss what you need. I have found them very helpful over the phone.

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1973 H Code Convertible - Medium Copper Metallic - June 8, 1973, Built Ford Marketing Sales Vehicle

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That's some good information, wish Tremec would mention it on their website.  The reason I mention the 10 spline issue is a friend has a 68 with a 408 Clevor engine and had issues with twisting his 10 spline toploader inputs. He ended up with a 26 spline input from David Kee (IIRC) and had his clutch disc reworked to match. It did take a few years before it happened, but he also twisted his 28 spline 9" axles. 

 

 

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Paul at Modern Driveline knew about the truck bellhousings being deeper, he stated good luck finding one, little did he know that I had gone thru some in looking for the aluminum bell I am now using, will still have to use a 1/4'' spacer between the bell and trans.

As suspected shorter input shafts are not currently being produced.

If one is to use the standard bell for our cars the MD crossmember will not fit

Yes, I will have to get my driveshaft shortened or purchase another one.

One more point on bellhousings as I am still researching, I believe there are both hydraulic and mechanical versions of this deeper bell and guess what ?

that means either a longer release bearing or some sort of standoff at the pivot point (low and behold these pieces can be had on ebay in 2 different versions.

All in all my new quote stands @ $3,821.76 with perhaps a little more trimming to do if I am able to make one of my Hurst handles work.

Anyone looking for a used Toploader, shifter and aluminum bell ? 

Boilermaster

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On 9/13/2021 at 6:33 PM, boilermaster said:

Paul at Modern Driveline knew about the truck bellhousings being deeper, he stated good luck finding one, little did he know that I had gone thru some in looking for the aluminum bell I am now using, will still have to use a 1/4'' spacer between the bell and trans.

As suspected shorter input shafts are not currently being produced.

If one is to use the standard bell for our cars the MD crossmember will not fit

Yes, I will have to get my driveshaft shortened or purchase another one.

One more point on bellhousings as I am still researching, I believe there are both hydraulic and mechanical versions of this deeper bell and guess what ?

that means either a longer release bearing or some sort of standoff at the pivot point (low and behold these pieces can be had on ebay in 2 different versions.

All in all my new quote stands @ $3,821.76 with perhaps a little more trimming to do if I am able to make one of my Hurst handles work.

Anyone looking for a used Toploader, shifter and aluminum bell ? 

Boilermaster

I went through all the same thinking when I recently did my Tremec conversion.  Ultimately I spent the $ and bought the whole kit.  It just wasn't worth the time, aggravation and uncertainly to save the $1K.  Everything just worked, bolted in and fit.  I'd do it again in a heartbeat.  What is your time worth? (of course it is always easy to spend other people's money...)

 
"The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute discussion with the average voter."
 
-Winston Churchill
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Well according to Midlife, ( if I had your money, I would throw mine away).

You asked for it Midlife, you got it.

I count salvage yard time as HEALING TIME and I sure need a lot of that.

If Modern Driveline would just make the shorter input shaft, that would make things a lot easier, then of course they would also have to make a different crossmember for our cars, but one could then use their stock length driveshaft.

Boilermaster

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I have to agree with Idaho Chris. Going with MDL TKO 600 conversion kit on my 70 Mach saved time, money and hair on my head. They have it all worked out. I would have never known to machine the top plates on my TKO 600 to improve tunnel clearance to maintain the right drive line angle from the front of the engine to the input shaft. The stock fan shroud, motor mounts work. Putting my shaker the right height thru the hood, and the drive shaft angle well within limits. Providing enough clearance for my driverside valve cover (any backward tilt the valve cover would have made contact with the brake booster) and helped my shorty Headers clear the abnoxtously large aftermarket steering box. Saving me countless hours of research and potential frustration.

Edited by rackerm

1973 H Code Convertible - Medium Copper Metallic - June 8, 1973, Built Ford Marketing Sales Vehicle

DSC_0266xsm.jpg

satellite.png Proud Space Junk Award Winner!

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I echo the comments about the MDL kits. I also used their kit for the auto to manual TKO600 conversion. It was flawless. The only thing I bought on my own was the Quicktime bellhousing. I can't remember, but I think I found it much cheaper elsewhere.

20210826_100810-mod-s.jpg.52aeaedc03b0419348700fb9c465e338.jpg

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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On 9/13/2021 at 7:33 PM, boilermaster said:

Paul at Modern Driveline knew about the truck bellhousings being deeper, he stated good luck finding one, little did he know that I had gone thru some in looking for the aluminum bell I am now using, will still have to use a 1/4'' spacer between the bell and trans.

As suspected shorter input shafts are not currently being produced.

If one is to use the standard bell for our cars the MD crossmember will not fit

Yes, I will have to get my driveshaft shortened or purchase another one.

One more point on bellhousings as I am still researching, I believe there are both hydraulic and mechanical versions of this deeper bell and guess what ?

that means either a longer release bearing or some sort of standoff at the pivot point (low and behold these pieces can be had on ebay in 2 different versions.

All in all my new quote stands @ $3,821.76 with perhaps a little more trimming to do if I am able to make one of my Hurst handles work.

Anyone looking for a used Toploader, shifter and aluminum bell ? 

Boilermaster

Paul is great at MDL!   He has helped me a bunch with our project. 

Edited by 72Mach168Cam

Brett

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK,

Pulled the trigger on the TKX today.

I will have a 1350 type slip joint, pretty sure I will just have to make a u joint change in the front and should wind up having the front and rear u joints being the same.

Not 100% on the driveshaft length, MDL offers a 50'' driveshaft for our cars and my current is 50- 21/32'' and have 1-1/4'' clearence with the suspension fully loaded. the bellhousing spacer is 11/16'' thick, my secret weapon is  a super short Yukon gear rear yoke that measures .730'' shorter than the standard 4'' Daytona yoke, gonna be a wait and see situation.

Paul says I should start seeing packages in about a week, Paul IS a super dude and we talked quite a bit, come to find out he has a brother about 2 hrs. from me with a 7173 as well. small world.

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For what it's worth I have the TKO 600 and I'm using a Lakewood bell that I believe is for an 85 mustang. It doesn't require a spacer and I'm using a Malwood hydraulic clutch. 

www.puregemdetailing.com

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11 hours ago, boilermaster said:

OK,

Pulled the trigger on the TKX today.

I will have a 1350 type slip joint, pretty sure I will just have to make a u joint change in the front and should wind up having the front and rear u joints being the same.

Not 100% on the driveshaft length, MDL offers a 50'' driveshaft for our cars and my current is 50- 21/32'' and have 1-1/4'' clearence with the suspension fully loaded. the bellhousing spacer is 11/16'' thick, my secret weapon is  a super short Yukon gear rear yoke that measures .730'' shorter than the standard 4'' Daytona yoke, gonna be a wait and see situation.

Paul says I should start seeing packages in about a week, Paul IS a super dude and we talked quite a bit, come to find out he has a brother about 2 hrs. from me with a 7173 as well. small world.

I installed in my 70 mustang a Tremec TKO 600, quick time Bell housing, Hydraulic clutch, Kevlar clutch, trans cross member all from MDL.

I recently measured, ordered and installed a 3.5" aluminum driveshaft also from MDL.  The tremec has a 1350 u joint and I have a Yukon 9" center with a 1350 pinion yoke. The install was flawless thanks to MDLs knowledge and support. 

That said,, the installation and setup of the hydraulic clutch and throw-out bearing was a new experience. It was straight forward,. The hard part was working in a very cramped space to install the master cylinder and linkage.

Good luck with your install

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Edited by rackerm

1973 H Code Convertible - Medium Copper Metallic - June 8, 1973, Built Ford Marketing Sales Vehicle

DSC_0266xsm.jpg

satellite.png Proud Space Junk Award Winner!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok,

After some unavoidable delays the TKX is in (well partially ) re -dialed the bellhousing and only had to make a small adjustment to the parallelism of the engine block to the face of the bell opening, I did this by adding two pieces of .016'' shim stock  between the separator plate and bell at the top 2 bellhousing bolts.

When I then measured the concentricity it was only .002'' , I bet I made 3 or 4 complete 360's to verify.

I was able to remove the toploader without removing the exhaust but knew that was not going to be the case when installing the TKX , boy was I right.

That darn TKX shifter and the shifter opening, very tight to the right side and the Kwik stik shifter, finally she went in, all in one instant and I was in.

Installed the transmission bolts, then pumped the transmission jack and there is my problem, the side tower of the shifter is really tight to the totally virgin OEM shifter opening, I cannot get the TKX high enough in the rear to install the crossmember and rear mount, l now have the crossmember installed with no mount, just to let it rest in place.

It appears as I  will need to trim about 3/4 to1'' from the right side of my shifter opening or cut out the opening as a whole and move it over just enough to clear and still fit my full length console.

Will be calling Paul at MDL tomorrow, just to verify I have the correct shifter, although they only list one for our cars.

On the other hand it looks good so far for not having to buy a new driveshaft by using the super short (3.5'' Daytona) pinion yoke.

That yoke is on a newly rebuilt 3.70 center section that is ready to install, just wanted to have the trans in place first.

Sorry I have been away for a while as of late but my computer keypad has issues and I am using an alternative on screen keypad that I just learned to use, being a one finger typist is  really slow.

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