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Staggered shocks


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I'm looking at upgrading my rear suspension,and I'm considering going to the staggered shock set up of the Q code cars....mainly due to a planned engine upgrade(4V heads, solid lifter cam,etc).Just looking for some opinions on the effectiveness of this setup in controlling axle tramp under heavy acceleration,as I've never driven a car with that option.Seems to me that the original staggered shock plates are going to be hard to find,and I wonder if is possible to use 2 right hand side plates to achieve the same result?..or I am I better just to forget it..and use traction bars?.I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

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I believe thats what the factory did. I have it on mine and its the same piece just turned a different way.

 

I would have to talk to a friend of mine about it again however I do remember there was a left and a right shock mount. That I'm not 100% sure of but I do remember talking about it and being shown a distinct left and right plate.

 

 

On the other side of the conversion, you have to make sure you have all the missing chassis cross members to make a staggered shock mount, you would need this from a donor car.

 

Only factory optioned staggered shock chassis received the cross members needed to install staggered shocks. A lot of people do not realize this they think if a car is a Mach 1 or a fastback body style they all have the same cross members under the trunk floor this is not the case.

 

The competion suspension package included the mounts for the rear sway bar inside the gas tank mount and the rails, and also included the extra cross members welded to the chassis under the front of the trunk area.

 

Now all the cars were stamped with 3 holes for rear shock access, 2 are used for the regular shock mounts the third was used in place of one shock access hole for the staggered shock mount. So a lot of guys are suprised on a regular suspension car they pop off the rubber cap over the third hole and there is just a big drain hole there with nothing under it, because the car was never equipped with the staggered shock mount crossmember.

 

It's funny cause up till a few years ago people would cut that section of the car out on a staggered car and just chuck it out, they didn't know the importance of that area of the car for the option. They just assumed all the cars were setup for staggered rear shocks, and you just needed the lower mounts, that is not the case.

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I went and looked at mine again and my leaf spring and shock mount are the same. I painted mine a while back when I put new springs in and I was surprised they were the same. I have the competition suspension and my lower sway bar mounts are also identical. My car was unmolested when I got it so I know this how Ford put it together. My car is a 73 so Ford might have decided it was cheaper to just buy one side and flip them but that's how mine is.

Jay

73 mach1

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Sometimes the factory put things on that dont belong by mistake or because it didnt make a difference. My car has a sway bar mount on one side but not the other. It was not ordered on my car as an option but it did have the competition suspension option for automatic cars which does not include staggered shocks.

Anyways the upper shock mount on the car body will be the hard one to find, since it is welded to the trunk floor. If you dont care about originality you may be able to make a mount.

Proably easier to get some traction bars of cal-tracs

mustangnight010.jpg

1972 Mustang Convertible 351C 4V

1966 Ford Galaxie 7 litre-4speed

 

Jorge

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Well... It looks like the bottom shock plates can be flipped around,so that's gonna be the easy part..I'm not really all that concerned about the non-original thing with this one ,because its under the car well out of sight ,but if I could find a pic of what the top mount is meant to look like...I could fabricate a piece to weld in.Maybe thats the best way to go.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'll try to get a picture and post it. However, it is a complex formed, bent, and tabbed piece of sheet metal. An alternative I've used with success is adding an extra half leaf (from the axle mounting pad forward) between the top and second leaf, add an extra spring clamp to the forward part of the spring. Change the front spring eye bushing to a very hard bushing, either rubber or polyurethane. Add a good set of adjustable, or less expensive 50/50 shocks. Fabricate an adjustable pinion snubber to mount to the existing yoke cover. A fabricated plate to make contact with the snubber can be mounted to existing holes in the tunnel just above the yoke. Set the gap at about 1- 1 1/2 inches. It sounds like a lot but nothing compared to trying to fabricate the factory staggered shock sheet metal and install it. This set up was good for launching a 72 R Code at 4500 RPM on slicks. It went 12.79 @ 109 MPH (not stock).

 

Good luck,

Chuck

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Well... It looks like the bottom shock plates can be flipped around,so that's gonna be the easy part..I'm not really all that concerned about the non-original thing with this one ,because its under the car well out of sight ,but if I could find a pic of what the top mount is meant to look like...I could fabricate a piece to weld in.Maybe thats the best way to go.

 

Hope this helps

 

- Manfred

 

 

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Thanks for everyones input.That's an interesting idea you have there Chuck with the extra leaf spring and the pinion snubber setup and I can see that it would work.Manfred,those pictures are awesome,thank you for posting them.I can now see what has to be done.I think I'll show the pics to a sheetmetal fabricator guy I know to see if he can make the mounting part.Either way..something must be done.No use having all that horsepower if you can't get it to the ground . Lloyd

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  • 3 years later...

I ran a similar set up to Chucks on a HG Monaro. I used poly bushes in the front spring eyes and pads but I also had tramp rods set up with about a half inch of preload on them as well. It worked pretty good

He has all the vices I admire and none of the virtues I despise

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Guest Kit Sullivan

It is not as easy to just say "some cars had competition susension, and some did not".

 

There were variations on what Ford called "Competition Suspension", and it all depended on what drivetrain was installed.

 

A 302 or 352-2v with CS came with revised springs, shocks and brakes but no rear bar or staggered shocks.

4V cars added the rear bar and staggered shocks to the CS package.

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  • 6 months later...

Sometimes the factory put things on that dont belong by mistake or because it didnt make a difference. My car has a sway bar mount on one side but not the other. It was not ordered on my car as an option but it did have the competition suspension option for automatic cars which does not include staggered shocks.

Anyways the upper shock mount on the car body will be the hard one to find, since it is welded to the trunk floor. If you dont care about originality you may be able to make a mount.

Proably easier to get some traction bars of cal-tracs

 

 

That's a great picture beautiful car beautiful background.

Going fast is fun but life is short so slow down and enjoy the ride :D Frank

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I went and looked at mine again and my leaf spring and shock mount are the same. I painted mine a while back when I put new springs in and I was surprised they were the same. I have the competition suspension and my lower sway bar mounts are also identical. My car was unmolested when I got it so I know this how Ford put it together. My car is a 73 so Ford might have decided it was cheaper to just buy one side and flip them but that's how mine is.

 

I just looked at mine and they are the same too, just rotated to fit the shock setup. These are original to my car.

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

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Another option but cost may be a consideration. Plus a shout out to one of our vendors.

 

BKDunha

72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)

67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)

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Thanks for everyones input.That's an interesting idea you have there Chuck with the extra leaf spring and the pinion snubber setup and I can see that it would work.Manfred,those pictures are awesome,thank you for posting them.I can now see what has to be done.I think I'll show the pics to a sheetmetal fabricator guy I know to see if he can make the mounting part.Either way..something must be done.No use having all that horsepower if you can't get it to the ground . Lloyd

 

We use to do the 1/2 leaf spring back in the 60's and made nylon bushings to make them solid. Also made better clamps to make sure the springs stayed together in the front as the axle is trying to wrap them up.

My Mach 1 came with comp sus. and I never had any issue with wheel hop and I ran G-60's back then. I would put the brackets on I see them on ebay and should be easy to find on the many rust buckets out there.

I will have to look at my Q vert with auto someone said they did not have staggered shocks. Just got the car and waiting for winter to pass before getting into it.

David

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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I went and looked at mine again and my leaf spring and shock mount are the same. I painted mine a while back when I put new springs in and I was surprised they were the same. I have the competition suspension and my lower sway bar mounts are also identical. My car was unmolested when I got it so I know this how Ford put it together. My car is a 73 so Ford might have decided it was cheaper to just buy one side and flip them but that's how mine is.

 

I had to go look at my car out in the garage, took a couple pictures and you can see that there is a slight difference, also you can see the crossmember You can see in the pictures the capital LS for left side and the capital R for right side. You can also see the marking MUSS for Mustang so they could tell them apart for the Cougar parts that were made on the same line at the same assembly plant.(which were slightly different than the Mustang.)

I know people that have used two right hand when they took off the traction bars. With traction bars you don't use the shock plates.image(256).jpeg.3d745bc8dbfa4d67b591c9982a51d44c.jpegimage(255).jpeg.ef29f7efbda15b70cac9a36020a04216.jpegimage(254).jpeg.6e92d4d228c396d6d2fe9f7806dbf0f0.jpegimage(253).jpeg.941441651cc08742c9391b8489bd034b.jpegimage(252).jpeg.d05bf3fd8fa6363c2f5712cf842f9259.jpegimage(251).jpeg.8b4467181cf0df6adcad00ac2e57b845.jpegimage(250).jpeg.d4a5cd84235eebc5f3be6857cfe129de.jpegimage(249).jpeg.b3ca032569bc160910182d95ed69feae.jpeg

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I went and looked at mine again and my leaf spring and shock mount are the same. I painted mine a while back when I put new springs in and I was surprised they were the same. I have the competition suspension and my lower sway bar mounts are also identical. My car was unmolested when I got it so I know this how Ford put it together. My car is a 73 so Ford might have decided it was cheaper to just buy one side and flip them but that's how mine is.

 

I had to go look at my car out in the garage, took a couple pictures and you can see that there is a slight difference, also you can see the crossmember You can see in the pictures the capital LS for left side and the capital R for right side. You can also see the marking MUSS for Mustang so they could tell them apart for the Cougar parts that were made on the same line at the same assembly plant.(which were slightly different than the Mustang.)

I know people that have used two right hand when they took off the traction bars. With traction bars you don't use the shock plates.

As a follow up from my post, I know this information (about L & R) is correct.Because I worked for FORD at a huge stamping plant.I was hire for the production Lines.After a few years I took a test for an apprenticeship.

Four years (8,000 hours)I graduate as a TOOL&DIE maker.We made some of our DIES and some for other FORD plants.We stamped floor pans & rail and welded sub assembly to ship to assembly plants.We also stamped roofs, doors,quarter panels and truck parts.So L or R is on some parts for assembly workers to identify easily (so they get put on the correct side) I hope this post helps if you have any questions.I might have an answer.I work for FORD for 38 years Larry

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Hello mustang68,

 

Nice! Good to have forum members who were actually there during the manufacturing process. Question, what did Ford do with the dies once the production run was over? We all know of the original tooling Label that some parts are made from. Are they purchased from Ford or their vendors who supplied parts?

 

Thank You!

 

mustang7173

Thanks,

mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

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Hello mustang68,

 

Nice! Good to have forum members who were actually there during the manufacturing process. Question, what did Ford do with the dies once the production run was over? We all know of the original tooling Label that some parts are made from. Are they purchased from Ford or their vendors who supplied parts?

 

Thank You!

 

mustang7173

I was a supplier to Ford for many years and at one time made parts for I think 15 different vehicles. The tooling is the property of Ford and when they go out of series production the tooling will go to a stamper that runs short runs for service. Not every part goes to a service part. At the end of a model they take a look and decide they will make say 500 of a part that goes to ecoat and then service.

The big use service parts like front end parts, due to crashes, run longer than say a roof would that is seldom replaced in a crash. When the tools go to service they are usually greased down and stored outside in the weather. They might get ran every couple years and when Ford decides that is enough they are sold for scrap. You can get a license with Ford to obtain the tooling and run parts and they get a percentage of your sales. Dennis Carpenter in Charlotte, N.C. does this some.

One of the largest if not the largest supplier of just service parts is Gerstenslager a division of Worthington in Ohio. A friend of mine worked there and they scrapped tooling like the induction hood for the Z-28 2 4-V set up. That hood is like gold now.

We also made lots of the Aluminum trim in the 60's and 70's we made ever grill for the Ford pickups. We shipped the tooling to a service parts stamper and had to scrap all our production samples. I tried to get them but was told the contract with Ford would not allow it. So NOS grills for every model pickup and van went to the crusher, 10s of thousands of dollars. That will make you cry if you love cars.

The prints for the parts was another thing that I wanted but they would not let me have and I was the engineering manager. A print for a T-bird quarter panel was about 20 feet in length and had all the views and dimensions of the part and all the engineering changes it went through listed. This was before CAD designs. I did manage to get I think the 63 galaxie and 64 galaxie grill prints. The drawings would have been great to hang on the wall in your garage. Now everything is CAD and printed drawings are consider uncontrolled documents.

Now to make you feel even worse when you go to buy parts or a car. In todays world most of the cars at Ford go for under $1,000 for a body in white. That is a body that the "Buck Tag" that we all know would be attached to. That is all the sheet metal that would go to the e-coat line to be dipped in primer. A front fender costs less that $15.00 and small parts are figured by a cost per stroke of the press. Parts like the plates for the staggered shock mounts would be maybe .10 ten cents a hit plus the cost of the material @ $.25 - $.35 a pound.

We stamped parts for lawn mowers on the same equipment as parts for Ford, BMW, Toyota.

I see the GMC ad on TV saying they make their trucks from "Rolled Steel". Well everyone makes everything that is a stamping from rolled steel. There are forgings and castings made from steel but pretty much all steel is rolled.

I know too much info but I need to write a shot paper on how the parts are tooled, produced and assembled.

David

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Hello mustang68,

 

Nice! Good to have forum members who were actually there during the manufacturing process. Question, what did Ford do with the dies once the production run was over? We all know of the original tooling Label that some parts are made from. Are they purchased from Ford or their vendors who supplied parts?

 

 

THANK YOU FOR NICE COMPLIMENTS.The plant I worked at put cosmoline on our DIES.(after a new model would come out) for storage outside.

We would some times bring them back in to stamp out service parts.That was a lot of work to clean all the DIES and getting a GOOD PANEL,three or four DIES to make a outer door skin. Production would have to "RUN AHEAD" to free up the presses to run service parts. Because of the size of DIES and the tonnage needed, we limited to certain presses that could be used. Outer door skins and quarter panels were needed for service parts, not floor pans or rails.

When I started working at the plant at the age of 18 there were over 5,000 employees, now there are around 700.. :( Larry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

l

 

mustang7173

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Sometimes the factory put things on that dont belong by mistake or because it didnt make a difference. My car has a sway bar mount on one side but not the other. It was not ordered on my car as an option but it did have the competition suspension option for automatic cars which does not include staggered shocks.

Anyways the upper shock mount on the car body will be the hard one to find, since it is welded to the trunk floor. If you dont care about originality you may be able to make a mount.

Proably easier to get some traction bars of cal-tracs

Since it was a warmer day today and some of the snow was gone I went and looked under the 72 Q vert. with C-6 that I just bought and it has staggered shocks. When I can get under I will see if the brackets on the floor were added or factory spot welds.

David

 

That's a great picture beautiful car beautiful background.


When I ordered a Maverick in 1971 they still did not have the V-8 as an option so I had the 250 6 cyl. in a grabber green one. You could get H.D. suspension on them for just $10.00 more. That gave you 5 lug wheels, better shocks and an 8" rear with heavier springs. Don't know why more did not have it for such a small price.

The competition suspension is listed on the window sticker of my 73 Mach 1 as a NC option. It was part of the Mach 1 package.

David

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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