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Experiences with cleveland stroker kits


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Hello everybody,

 

My name is Christian and I come from Austria. Some of us guys in Europe have been informed that there is a very interesting forum for 71-73 riders.

I think this is a very good idea to have special talk and support for our mustangs.

 

To my vehicle: it´s a 73 Mach 1 with a 351 cleveland engine 4V, some modifications have been done as fogged pistons, camshaft, 750 holy carburetor, wieand intake, headers.

 

But now I have some problems: During my yearly small overhaul I have detect that my camshaft is defect (one cam for cylinder 3). By planning this regarding to the costs and the effort of dismounting/ mounting the engine I think this would be a good chance now to stroke my 351 cleveland.

 

There are different stroker kits available 383 cui, 393cui and 408 cui. My favorite would be the 408 cui kit. But I am worried about the long term performance. Does anyone have bad experiences with the 408 kits ?

 

My plan would be to use most of my existing modifications as the 4V heads, the 750 Holly, intake aso.. with the 408 kit. Is this a good idea ?

 

Finally I would like to thank the team for becoming a member and would be happy for some feedback.

 

Best regards

Christian

 

best regards Christian

 

My Mustang is a "hybrid vehicle" it burns fuel and rubber :D

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WELCOME aboard, Christian!

 

Regarding your question on the retention of your Intake, Carburetor and 4V Heads, I would suggest a couple of things.

 

First, I believe you need to decide exactly what you want as your primary goal for the car. Are you planning on racing it? Is it just for cruising? Do you want reliable daily transportation? You should be SINCERE in whatever decision you make, as you are probably going to spend REAL money, time and effort in this pursuit.

 

Once you have done this, contact a "trusted" Camshaft manufacturer and tell them EXACTLY what you want out of the motor, MOST OF THE TIME. The camshaft is often referred to as the BRAIN of the engine. It will dictate to a HUGE degree what other performance "changes" may be necessary for optimum results. Keep in mind that optimum results for a "race" motor is not necessarily optimum for a "street" motor. Certain cams will require different fuel requirements as will larger (stroked) motors. This could necessitate a larger carburetor and/or a different intake manifold.

 

Keep in mind that BIGGER is not always better!

 

Again Welcome to the Site.

 

BT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do the RIGHT thing.

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Keep in mind that BIGGER is not always better!

 

Hmmm and yours is a 5what? ;)

 

Haha...Owned!

 

Welcome to the forums, Christan! Glad to have you aboard! This is the only place on the internet dedicated to our cars that I know of! Enjoy! ::welcome::

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YES, you make an OUTSTANDING point on that one, Roy (TNFASTBK). I am reminded of an old saying,"do as I say, not as I do:).

 

Seriously though, I believe it should depend on one's intended usage. This is a grand opportunity for me to provide additional dialogue and clarification as I believe it bears emphasis. For example:

 

The 545 that is going into my '73 Mach I will be essentially a "race" motor with very little (if any) street time. It is being designed to safely turn 7500 RPM and to make maximum horse power. BIGGER in this case would have been a 598 or a 604 which would have necessitated a non-stock block. For my hobby racing purposes, BIGGER would not have been optimum:).

 

My '73 Grande was built primarily for cruising, hence the more sedate 472 which was built for maximum torque (street domination?) at a much lower RPM. Again, since the motor does not have to live at 7500 RPM, there is no need for the bigger/stronger stroker crankshaft, fully ported aluminum heads, large modified carburetor or Mechanical Roller camshaft that I will be running in the 545.

 

So I must modify my original statement to say "BIGGER is not always better, BUT sometimes it is - - dependent upon intended usage."

 

Again, THANKS Roy for the opportunity to provide additional emphasis:).

 

BT

 

 

 

Do the RIGHT thing.

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If you research the Engine Masters Challenge you will find many 400 - 408" clevelands that have done very well. 4" bore and 4" stroke.

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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I've heard it cautioned in other forums that 351s have a tendency to have thin walls between cylinders, so a careful examination of the block would definitely come into play when determining how much to bore. Some great information is available at

 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/

 

Welcome to our club, and please don't hesitate to stop by with your questions.

 

Doc

 

Doc

 

6y14ea.jpg

 

Project started 8-7-10

Completed: All new suspension, rebuilt 351C H Code bored .030 over with mild cam and intake, new 3.50 TracLok, custom exhaust system

Current "mini-project": interior upgrade :-/

[button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=76]Doc's Garage[/button][button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-mustang-convertible-restoration-and-modification]Doc's Wiki[/button]

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Hello,

 

Thanks for your feedback.

In principle I would like to have a combination of daily driver and 1/8 mile race. The max. speed is not so important but torque at low rpm and good acceleration would make me happy. There is also no need for a good idle.

 

I have found a forged stroker kit from Speedomotive including

HI NODULAR 4.000" STROKER CRANKSHAFT

- FORGED 5140 6.000" I BEAM RODS w/ ARP WAVE-LOC BOLTS

- FORGED FLAT TOP OR DISHED PISTONS

- JE MOLY RINGS

- CLEVITE MAIN & ROD BEARINGS

- DIGITALLY BALANCED WITIN 1/2 GRAM

- BLUEPRINTED & READY TO ASSEMBLE

 

The camshaft would be from Comp Cams Type “Xtreme Energy™, XE256H”.

 

Would you propose also other modifications or does anybody have information’s about the performance (horse powers, torque) for a 408 or 393 Stroker ?

 

best regards Christian

 

My Mustang is a "hybrid vehicle" it burns fuel and rubber :D

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My car is exclusively intended for street use. I have a scat 408 stroker kit in my motor. I went the sleeper route by running stock appearing 4V quench heads and a stock 351CJ intake. I am running a custom grind comp cams hydr roller cam. This setup is very streetable. I am able to run 91 octane fuel without any pinging or overheating issues.

 

Mike

57_23_07_10_12_47_19.jpeg

 

White 1973 (351C stroked to 408, 4V, FMX) convertible with blue deluxe interior AC and power windows.

 

Mike

Irwin Pa (MCA # 52193)

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Hello,

 

My operation “Cleveland tuning” started today. Tomorrow we will dismount the engine and check the defect camshaft.

 

After that the type of stroker and new camshaft will be fixed and ordered in the states. If everything is fine vehicle should be finish in the end of February.

 

IMGP1910-1.thumb.jpg.c6e83f426d2fe5de2ffc4eba7f425f95.jpg

best regards Christian

 

My Mustang is a "hybrid vehicle" it burns fuel and rubber :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

I recently built a 408 Cleveland. It is pretty aggressive, especially with an automatic transmission but it worked well on the dyno 529 peak horsepower @ 6400 RPM and 496 LB./FT. torque at 4900 RPM. I would stay away from Speed-O-Motive. I used the Scat 4.00 cast crank, Scat I-beam rods, 9.5:1 compression ratio Mahle dished power pak pistons, rings, and pins. Heads are closed chamber 4V with Ferrea valves, roller rocker, and custom length pushrods. Camshaft is a custom ground Lunati flat tappet solid lifter. Intake is made by Blue Thunder and is a dual plane design. Carb is 750 Holley HP. 7 quart oil pan is from Canton. If you want details let me know. This is for a car that will not be driven every day but is streetable and runs on 91 octane gasoline. Obviously this rotating assembly would need to be balanced but it sounds like you have a machine shop you trust. Flat tappet cams failing has become common place. In most cases it is not a problem with the cam. Modern oils are the problem. Many friction reducing additives (ZDDP) have been removed to extend the life of catalytic convertors (and other reasons). Some oils say they have ZDDP in them but it is a fraction of the amount required to protect the cam lobes. With modern roller follower cams this is not a huge problem. With old style flat tappet cams it is. While many additives are available I believe a better solution is using a special purpose oil blended for old style flat tappet cams, such as Joe Gibbs racing. Good luck with your rebuild. If I can help let me know

 

Viel Glueck,

Chuck

708342953_engineright11-17-10_1524.jpg.877190f6b13ff8c9ae87441754b606ad.jpg

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That is one VERY nice looking stroker, Chuck! Thanks for the info.

 

Doc

Doc

 

6y14ea.jpg

 

Project started 8-7-10

Completed: All new suspension, rebuilt 351C H Code bored .030 over with mild cam and intake, new 3.50 TracLok, custom exhaust system

Current "mini-project": interior upgrade :-/

[button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=76]Doc's Garage[/button][button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-mustang-convertible-restoration-and-modification]Doc's Wiki[/button]

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Thanks. I hope to actually finish the car this spring. This build has gone on too long.

 

Chuck

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Guest BigPinoyHunk

Keep in mind that BIGGER is not always better!

 

Hmmm and yours is a 5what? ;)

 

i absolutely love it, but lets not make this into a BBF very Cleveland war now guys, keep it friendly! :D:P

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No way is there going to be a Big Block vs Cleveland rant from me!!!

 

I spent a number of years running a solid lifter Cleveland in my Mach 1 and I sent a LOT of big block Chevys, Pontiacs and Mopars home. Mind you, this was before the advent of all the great parts that are now available for the Cleveland motors.

 

To be honest, just about ANY motor will run GREAT if you put enough money into it but there is SOMETHING about the sound and fury that comes with a properly prepared BBF:).

 

BT

Do the RIGHT thing.

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No way is there going to be a Big Block vs Cleveland rant from me!!!

 

I spent a number of years running a solid lifter Cleveland in my Mach 1 and I sent a LOT of big block Chevys, Pontiacs and Mopars home. Mind you, this was before the advent of all the great parts that are now available for the Cleveland motors.

 

To be honest, just about ANY motor will run GREAT if you put enough money into it but there is SOMETHING about the sound and fury that comes with a properly prepared BBF:).

 

BT

 

I agree with that 110% Just Playin around. I just hope to see mine in the car and start up one day:s

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No way is there going to be a Big Block vs Cleveland rant from me!!!

 

I spent a number of years running a solid lifter Cleveland in my Mach 1 and I sent a LOT of big block Chevys, Pontiacs and Mopars home. Mind you, this was before the advent of all the great parts that are now available for the Cleveland motors.

 

To be honest, just about ANY motor will run GREAT if you put enough money into it but there is SOMETHING about the sound and fury that comes with a properly prepared BBF:).

 

BT

Are you talking about BBF senior or junior? Ahhh, nothing like the sound of a solid lifter FE in the morning.

 

Chuck

 

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Yeah Chuck, currently have one of those also (428 bored .020 with 294S Comp Cam) in my '73 Mach 1.

 

Only problem is the original 428CJ motor has become somewhat valuable for restorers. I am planning on removing it and possibly putting it in a period correct Mustang (maybe '69 or '70). Hence the move to the 429/460 based 545!

 

Oh, BIG boys and their TOYS!

 

BT

Do the RIGHT thing.

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Yeah Chuck, currently have one of those also (428 bored .020 with 294S Comp Cam) in my '73 Mach 1.

 

Only problem is the original 428CJ motor has become somewhat valuable for restorers. I am planning on removing it and possibly putting it in a period correct Mustang (maybe '69 or '70). Hence the move to the 429/460 based 545!

 

Oh, BIG boys and their TOYS!

 

BT

How about a 68 1/2 CJ clone?

 

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Yeah, the 68 1/2 CJ clone is an option but I like the shape of the 69 and 70 Mustangs.

 

I am in no hurry though as with two (2) projects ongoing, I will simply pull the 428CJ and top loader and store them until I find the right "body." I also have a FE Cast Iron tailshaft C6.

 

BT

 

 

Do the RIGHT thing.

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Yeah, the 68 1/2 CJ clone is an option but I like the shape of the 69 and 70 Mustangs.

 

I am in no hurry though as with two (2) projects ongoing, I will simply pull the 428CJ and top loader and store them until I find the right "body." I also have a FE Cast Iron tailshaft C6.

 

BT

 

 

You are right. The unusual and odd cars appeal to me.

Chuck

 

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Yeah, the 68 1/2 CJ clone is an option but I like the shape of the 69 and 70 Mustangs.

 

I am in no hurry though as with two (2) projects ongoing, I will simply pull the 428CJ and top loader and store them until I find the right "body." I also have a FE Cast Iron tailshaft C6.

 

BT

 

 

 

I have a heated engine compartment here in East Tn if you would like to store them on this side of the state.:)

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LOL! Man, Roy, you kill me! :D

Doc

 

6y14ea.jpg

 

Project started 8-7-10

Completed: All new suspension, rebuilt 351C H Code bored .030 over with mild cam and intake, new 3.50 TracLok, custom exhaust system

Current "mini-project": interior upgrade :-/

[button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=76]Doc's Garage[/button][button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-mustang-convertible-restoration-and-modification]Doc's Wiki[/button]

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