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ZDDP Oil Question revisited.


OpiemusRex
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I have searched the posts after researching the great ZDDP debate. I am looking for an oil for use, after break-in, with 1200 to 1500 ppm ZDDP and would prefer a synthetic but may consider a mineral based oil. The problem is that after researching the internet I am still confused and have not found the viscocity I want with the ppm I think it needs.

 

I have posed the oil question here before and most agreed that 5W30 would be appropriate, so I was going with Mobil 1 until I found the Zinc/Phosphate level is too low. If 5W30 is not the not appropriate, I would appreciate your input on it at well. My motor is a 306 with a comp cam, roller rockers in Dart Heads the specs are in "My Garage" profile.

 

I am currently looking at Royal Purple's Street/Performance and Rotella but would appreciate our thoughts.

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I don't know how to insert a link to another thread into this thread. If you do a search of "Flat Tappet Engine Oil" that will take you to a a thread with what you're looking for. Based on the recommendations I received on this site, I'm running Valvoline VR-1 20W-50.

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Check out bobistheoilguy.com there is tons of good information there.

 

Just out of curiosity, what are you running and what weight? By the way how are your subframe connectors comming along?

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Your cam manufacturer should be the one to recommend the oil you need to use.

 

Here is Isky's page:

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iskycams.com%2Fsupplement-09%2FPg11.pdf&ei=mOrCUPXaGrHyigL2iIGQDg&usg=AFQjCNE407VxWUBCT3UL6V4hEWE0L6GKrQ

 

It would be interesting to have comparisons of people who have measured their cams prior to installation. Run 50k miles, pull out the cam and remeasure. Then we would really know what was effective.

 

Why do you think the oil companies haven't run such a test? My guess is because it would show there isn't that much of a difference, because if there was, the company with the best formulated oil would want us to know.

 

Until then, it isn't quite smoke and mirrors. Camshaft people all agree pushrod motors need zinc and all the additives necessary to keep the zinc in solution...and Isky recommends Brad Penn for theirs.

 

=========

 

Couldn't we measure the lift every 10k miles to see how much are cam's are worn? With a 1.73 lifter, the wear is amplified 1.73 times. I would think we should be able to spot excessive wear. I am sure there is a lift point at which the cam is recommended to be replaced, though I have never heard anyone make a statement such as, "Dude, I am going to replace my cam this weekend because the lift has drop .008." But, maybe I hang with the wrong crowd.

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351C Bold Manners, Brash Attitude

Favorite Teams: Michigan Wolverines and Whoever Is Playing Ohio State.

 

When I drive past a herd of cows, the cows MOO at me

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I use Valvoline VR-1 10W-30 as this is a freshly rebuilt engine

(1500 miles?) and the oil is available locally. Albeit expensive,

it has a high ZDDP content. Also use K&N filters. Also expensive

but I don't cut corners with the Cleveland. Next project is to find

some decent gas.

 

mike

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Given the bearing clearances for these engines I feel 5W30 viscosity is too low. If set up standard and fresh I use 10W30. If high mileage or set up a bit looser 20W50. See the attached link for Z&P levels in Amsoil Z-Rod oil. Chuck

http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulletin/motoroil/tsb%20mo-2007-08-08%20flat%20tappet.pdf

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OK, I a zeroing in on the Valvoline ZR-1 and have a question. It comes in two bottle colors silver or black (racing). Which one should I buy and what are the differences between the two?

 

The black is on sale now at O'Reilly's for $4.99 a qt., so I may just buy several cases if this is the right stuff.

 

I am thinking that 10W30 would be the appropriate viscosity; does anyone have a good reason that I should buy 20W50 or heavier than 10W30?

 

The motor is just rebuilt with zero miles and of course I will not change to this oil until break-in is complete and I have around 1500 miles on it.

 

:salute:

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I use Valvoline VR-1 10W-30 as this is a freshly rebuilt engine

(1500 miles?) and the oil is available locally. Albeit expensive,

it has a high ZDDP content. Also use K&N filters. Also expensive

but I don't cut corners with the Cleveland. Next project is to find

some decent gas.

 

mike

 

Plus 1 to that !! I use the same oil in my freshly built Cleveland, and the K & N filter. All recommended by my builder. I only have 400 miles on it but no complaints !!! :D


OK, I a zeroing in on the Valvoline ZR-1 and have a question. It comes in two bottle colors silver or black (racing). Which one should I buy and what are the differences between the two?

 

The black is on sale now at O'Reilly's for $4.99 a qt., so I may just buy several cases if this is the right stuff.

 

I am thinking that 10W30 would be the appropriate viscosity; does anyone have a good reason that I should buy 20W50 or heavier than 10W30?

 

The motor is just rebuilt with zero miles and of course I will not change to this oil until break-in is complete and I have around 1500 miles on it.

 

:salute:

 

That should be VR-1, and check the bottles carefully. Something is different about them. :huh: Maybe one is synthetic.

10-30 should be right.

1973 Mach 1 Q code, 4 speed toploader w/3.70 traction lock

Freshly rebuilt with boss closed chambered heads, flat top pistons, adjustable roller rockers, Erson flat tappet cam, ARP bolts thru out, 10/10 crank, port plates, edelbrock performer intake, Holley 4160 750cfm duel feed, Hooker Comp. full length headers, custom h-pipe to dual Hooker mufflers. Specs out to 415 H.P.

In the words of Ricky Bobby, " If you ain't first your last" Ha, Ha, Ha :P

 

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I dont know too much about oil "brands" offered in USA.

Some of the brands we also have here in Norway, and one of those are Joe Gibbs.

On my 351 C 4v i use Dynacat 20/50 mineral oil, runs about 1100-1200 ppm zink.

Joe Gibbs have also that amount of zink, if not more. And also the balance between additives is correct ( stated by themselves)

 

I believe no zink additives will make up for the real zink from back in the days, its a reason why its forbidden. The same with lead gasoline.

No problem running synthetic oil on our old engines, but often we change oil and filter very often, so there is no need in synthetic oil, just waisting more money. Syntetic oil contains more "cleaning" additives, and are made for lasting for longer intervals.

I will always run 20/50 mineral oil with enough zddp on my old engine(s), but the day i rebuild with roller cam and ++++, i might run synthetic .

I also have a 86 GT with 349 stroker,alu. heads, roller cam ++++ fuel injected. I run 10/30 Mineral on that one as well, but i change oil and filter often on my cars.

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Check out bobistheoilguy.com there is tons of good information there.

 

Just out of curiosity, what are you running and what weight? By the way how are your subframe connectors comming along?

 

I am using Kawasaki semi sythetic 10w30 motorcycle oil. I get a great deal on it through work.

 

The connectors are at a standstill for now, I've had to work on my DD.

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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Thanks, after much consideration , I have chosen Valvoline Racing synthetic (black bottle) 10W30.

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Here is some interesting information regarding the anti-wear properties of specific motor oils:

 

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33547

 

Great info, thanks for the posting.

The oil I use has the highest rated

protection for a conventional street

legal racing oil. Can't remember why

I chose that oil in the first place.

 

mike


Thanks, after much consideration , I have chosen Valvoline Racing synthetic (black bottle) 10W30.

 

The oil I use and the one you chose have the highest psi rating

of any street legal oil in the list.

Why did you choose the synthetic?

 

mike

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Here is some interesting information regarding the anti-wear properties of specific motor oils:

 

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33547

 

Great info, thanks for the posting.

The oil I use has the highest rated

protection for a conventional street

legal racing oil. Can't remember why

I chose that oil in the first place.

 

mike


Thanks, after much consideration , I have chosen Valvoline Racing synthetic (black bottle) 10W30.

 

The oil I use and the one you chose have the highest psi rating

of any street legal oil in the list.

Why did you choose the synthetic?

 

mike

 

I figured that it wouldn't hurt and it is on sale now at O'Reilly's for $4.99 a quart. Regular price is $9.29 so I am getting at least three cases.

I run synthetic in all my vehicles once they have been broken in correctly, I use Mobil 1 5W30 in my 2000 GMC Z71 and 2001 Tahoe.

The information provided above makes me feel even better about my choice.

 

Jeff S.

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The oil I use and the one you chose have the highest psi rating

of any street legal oil in the list.

Why did you choose the synthetic?

 

mike

 

I figured that it wouldn't hurt and it is on sale now at O'Reilly's for $4.99 a quart. Regular price is $9.29 so I am getting at least three cases.

I run synthetic in all my vehicles once they have been broken in correctly, I use Mobil 1 5W30 in my 2000 GMC Z71 and 2001 Tahoe.

The information provided above makes me feel even better about my choice.

 

Can't beat that price! Looks we use the two top rated wear protection

oils they make.

 

mike

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