351C 2V Build advice

[ianpala]

Hey Guys,  

This is my first post on here, even though I have read hundreds on here while rebuilding my 1971 Convertible for the last 4 years.  Thanks for all you benevolent experts.  Everything I've done so far has been cosmetic. Did all the body work and completely refurbished the interior.  Once I got her painted and put back together. I drove her with my buddy, and a trunk full of fun, from Austin, Texas to Marfa, Big Bend, White Sands, the Grand Canyon, Vegas, and lastly Los Angeles.  F-ing best trip ever. Now, its time to wake up the engine

I have a the original 351C 2V engine with the stock 2 barrel carb on her. Only thing that is not stock is an electric distributor instead of points. I don't remember the model. I can try to figure it out if it's crucial for the rest.

She's my driver first and foremost, but I definitely want performance as well.  I still have a lot of research to do, but hopefully you guys can shed your expertise.  I'm not too tech savvy, a notch above layman, so excuse me if I leave out relevant info or am asking things that are too vague.

Here's what I'm thinking:  (part numbers would be greatly appreciated) 

HEADERS:  SHORTY, MID, or LONG?  I originally wanted shorty because I don't want them to hang too low (definitely not below my oil pan if thats possible). Apparently long Hooker and Hedmanns are the favorite around here.... but I'm just worried they'll end up too low.

BOLT ON INTAKE MANIFOLD TO SUPPORT 4 BARREL:  Want to go from a 2bbl to a 4bbl carb and keep my 2V heads, and want to make sure I end up with a good intake manifold... any suggestions?

4BBL CARB:  Street driver, road tripper,  willing to sacrifice a little gas milage for power.  Any suggestions?

MUFFLERS:  Putting dual H-Pipes... I tend to like a deeper growl, what's your favorite?

CAMSHAFT:  Dun dun dun... I know this is like the question that riles everyone up and makes them speak rocket surgeon. I'm dumb...  it's a driver, want the sound, want a little power... just shoot me your fave... I won't understand much. 

NEW VALVE SPRINGS: suggestions?

I know it's important to match cams to carbs to headers and vice versa.. so maybe what you suggest with eachother?

I'd love to keep costs as low as possible but want to do things right. Other than what I listed above... is there any thing you think I should definitely look out for or think is a MUST with this added power?  For instance I'm gonna look to see if I need a valve job once I dig in. Might replace the head gaskets. I've heard going to 1-piece stainless valves is a must? Are new Rockers a must?

I'd appreciate any of your time and wisdom.  Just wan't to wake her up with some basics but also ensure she lasts.  Thanks and much love!

 

[Fabrice]

Hi ianpala, welcome!

When I read the trips you did and do, me thinking: don't touch a winning team!

I've started 2V and went 4V. For the 2V Added long Hedman's headers first, but quickly went over to short, new exhaust/mufflers, new intake , first a 750 Holley then a 650 DP Holley which was better for the heads/engine state. Added a crane cam, new lifters and many other details like pertronix, better coil, wires etc etc . At the time, the big fat Summit racing printed catalog was my bible. Young and broke, That is something I did spreaded over the first 2 years I owned the car. I got more perf out of it, not sure how much. Ran and sounded better but it was still an old V8, that aged with own parts made for the 2V configuration.

If I were you, I'd do the exhaust improvement, and keep it to that. Continue to drive and enjoy this fine looking car.

While in parallel, I'd locate a 4V block that has never been bored. Buy all the components for the kind of power that you have in mind, let a competent machine shop do the heavy lifting. Once the engine is complete, replace the 2v by the 4v.

Not only you know exactly what's in your engine, you also have the combo that will match your expectations and based on my own experience,

much cheaper in the long run.

 

[Bill73Ragtop]

If the H-code block is in good condition, there is no reason (or significant difference) to switch to a 4-bbl block).

Sound like you have pertronix ignition - better than points so I would stick with them.

Appreciated the Hunter Thompson scenario - LOL!

 

[c9zx]

Perform a leak down check to learn about the condition of the rings and valves. Check all parts of the ignition system. Check oil pressure with a quality mechanical gauge (tap in where the oil sending unit is). If that all checks good, try resetting the timing to 10-12 degrees initial advance and readjust the carb. If it has a 2.75:1 rear gear, consider a 3.00:1 or a 3.25:1 rear gear. If you still want more, go for an improved exhaust system. Long tubes will yield the most increase in useable torque and power. The Hookers I've used on two builds fit well. I also prefer a H pipe to a X pipe but, it is mostly personal preference. If you still want more, it gets more interesting at this point. You will need to decide if you want to change the cam and valve train components at the same time you convert to 4V intake and carb to save time. If you retain the stock cam and valve train, the Edelbrock Performer and a 600 cfm Quick Fuel Slayer should work well to about 5300 RPM. If you do want a more aggressive cam the stock sled type, bolt down, rocker arms, will limit lift numbers to about .500-.520 with relative slow ramps. Compression, convertor stall speed, and road gear will limit duration/overlap and lobe separation of the cam (talk to Schneider, Crower, Lunati). This is also the point where the "while I'm here I may as well change......" syndrome takes over (new timing set, oil pump drive rod, performance distributor, adjustable valve train, etc.). The project expense can quickly get out of control. If you do change the cam, pay a pro to degree the cam in for you before you put the rest of the engine back together.

   Based on what you said in the original post, you should probably stop with dual exhaust, 4V intake and carb, and a gear change if you have a 2.75:1. Just my opinion.

Chuck

 

[kcmash]

My Mach was always fun to drive and reliable with the factory 2-v Cleveland setup.  With a 3.00 open there wasn't a lot of off the line speed, but a lot of fun punch on the highway.

I agree with the post from Fabrice earlier.  Keep your original power train for what it is and build something new to your expectation.  Heck, go full restomod and put a modern Fuel Injected, roller cam 5.0 in there and have a lot of punch and fun.  Advances and changes in engine technology have made huge advances since our cars were new.  If you want a fun driver that has the modern conveniences of a quick start and reliability go for it with Fuel Injection, Roller Cam and high power electronic ignition.  Cheaper and easier than the alternative.

kcmash

 

[Mister 4x4]

If you're looking for a little more oomph (off the line, fuel mileage, etc.), there are lots of ways to skin that cat.  I'm assuming your H-code set-up is similar to what mine was, with an FMX automatic and 3.00 rear gears.

Swap in an overdrive transmission and change the rear gears to something like 3.50s.  That'll give you more instant gratification without hitting the wallet too hard. I still have the 3.00 rear gears, and like kcmash mentioned, off-the-line isn't super stellar, but it scoots with all the extra power from warming up the engine.

Check my 'Garage' (link below) for my engine build - it addresses everything you mentioned, plus a little deeper because I started with a seized block and everything needed to be replaced.

As for headers, I went with the Hooker Competition full length headers, and they don't hang down far at all - no issues with scraping or anything.  Hedmans are also a good choice.  Both fit with factory power steering as well.

I also went with an Edelbrock Performer intake and Performer 1406 (600fcm) carb, but will be switching to Edelbrock E-Street fuel injection, mostly because I like Edelbrock and those combinations will still fit my factory Ram Air without modification or height issues.

Since you already have Pertronix, I'd stick with that.

Since you're thinking about switching out the cam, consider going all-in and go with a roller cam/lifter solution, along with some roller rockers to top it all off - it really frees up the valve train and won't require a zinc oil additive for break-in and longevity like the flat tappets need.  The roller rockers fit perfectly with a set of Crane Cams 7/16" screw-in rocker studs as well (which won't require having the heads machined for roller rocker stud mounts).

I hope that helps.

Also - love your car!  The sport caps are awesome, and nice to see rather than all the Magnum 500s and Corporate 'dog dish' hubcaps.

 

[ianpala]

You guys are awesome! Thanks again. Looks like I'll be buying my first hooker I think I'm going to switch the rear gear and hold off on the cam for now thanks to Fabrice's words of wisdom. She got me across the country, last thing I need to do is screw that up. Also, forgot to mention I wanted to get rid of my open diff. Been looking at a few... still learning the best options.... feel free to shed light.

However once I get started on the engine... who knows what I'll find. When I do end up doing the cam later down the road, I'll go the roller cam and roller rocker route... probably on a separate 351C. Thanks for the leak down tip Chuck. I'll keep you guys Updated!

 

[Canted 393]

Just as in real life bad hookers leave bad taste in your mouth.

I don't what happened with their qc but the port mismatch on some 4v heads was terrible I don't think they would have sealed and they were made in china. Try www.fordpowertrain.com, spendy but fit great and good ground clearance. Read the lastest reviews on summit racing a lot of people are complaining about them.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hok-6920-1hkr/overview/make/ford/year/1970/model/mustang

 

[mach71351c]

Hookers fit way to close to trans pan for my liking. I ran headman headers on my 2v . I don't recall any fitment problems.

 

[SVO2SCJ]

I think you are thinking correctly READING "you are working yourself, know your limits AND don't want car you can't drive for 9 months!"

MY guess is a 2V to 4V manifold will be project enough, from finding to getting the carb you want (600 Vacuum secondaries) and installing. Some would say , don't add without headers ETC - but again I would do this in steps!

Mark

P.S. Step two would be to add black side stripes to break up the red AND "have people look at you" !!

 

[73pony]

Love the car. For headers I have the Headmans on my 2v. No fitment issues at all and good ground clearance even with a 1" drop all around.

If you do go the route of doing the cam I would also suggest the roller conversion.

 

[rackerm]

You guys are awesome! Thanks again.  Looks like I'll be buying my first hooker I think I'm going to switch the rear gear and hold off on the cam for now thanks to Fabrice's words of wisdom. She got me across the country, last thing I need to do is screw that up.  Also, forgot to mention I wanted to get rid of my open diff. Been looking at a few... still learning the best options.... feel free to shed light.

However once I get started on the engine... who knows what I'll find.  When I do end up doing the cam later down the road, I'll go the roller cam and roller rocker route... probably on a separate 351C.  Thanks for the leak down tip Chuck.  I'll keep you guys Updated!

I changed my H code with a C6 from a stock 2.75 open rear to an Eaton Detroit Truetrac limited slip with Yukon 3.25 gears. 3.25 ratio is a good compromise between performance and cruising. You could go with 3.00 gears to get a better cruising gear and gas mileage. With a stock 3 speed automatic, I would not go higher than 3.25 gears if you want to cruise down the highway a lot. Truetrac is a great setup with a Planetary Helical gear design. It behaves like an open rear with a very smooth power transfer when you get on it.

 

[Fabrice]

[i think I'm going to switch the rear gear and hold off on the cam for now thanks to Fabrice's words of wisdom. ]

I'm gonna need to print that one and show the wife

+1 on the Hedman headers. No clearance probs either on steering house or engine mounts.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I swapped in an AOD and the Hooker Comp Long-tubes fit just fine. (The AOD has a much bigger valve-body and pan than an FMX, BTW).

Not arguing... just sayin'.  

 

[ianpala]

So far: :

Edlebrock performer intake 2750

Either Quick fuel SL600 or Edlebrock 1406 (leaning towards edlebrock)

Still undecided on Hooker comp long vs headman (leaning headman)

Still undecided on the differential

Anyone know of a good H-pipe set for long tube headers I can find online?

Also if anyone has installed a limited slip/ post differential they loved (new one from like Yukon or something) feel free to share!

 

[73pony]

So far: :

Edlebrock performer intake 2750

Either Quick fuel SL600 or Edlebrock 1406 (leaning towards edlebrock)

Still undecided on Hooker comp long vs headman (leaning headman)

Still undecided on the differential

Anyone know of a good H-pipe set for long tube headers I can find online?

Also if anyone has installed a limited slip/ post differential they loved (new one from like Yukon or something) feel free to share!

There is a place in Ames Iowa called Quick Performance. I sent them my original third member with 2.75 open rear and they rebuilt with new 3.70 gears and a traclok. Was under $900 and works and looks great. I know a couple others on here have used them as well.

http://www.quickperformance.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk8zx2eq02gIVT7nACh2MnA5fEAAYASAAEgLfGvD_BwE

 

[jpaz]

The best posi rear end imop is the Truetrac. It’s has mesh gears that won’t wear out like others will. No noise and works great! I went from a 3.25 open to the Truetrac with 3.50 gears. Made a very noticeable improvement and am real happy I didn’t go with any more gear. I can still do some highway cruising without to many rpms and have fun around town.

 

[rackerm]

I agree. As i posted earlier I changed my H code with a C6 from a stock 2.75 open rear to an Eaton Detroit Truetrac limited slip with Yukon 3.25 gears. 3.25 ratio is a good compromise between performance and cruising. You could go with 3.00 gears to get a better cruising gear and gas mileage. With a stock 3 speed automatic, I would not go higher than 3.25 gears if you want to cruise down the highway a lot. Truetrac is a great setup with a Planetary Helical gear design. It behaves like an open rear with a very smooth power transfer when you get on it.

 

[ianpala]

What would be the down side to putting a 750cfm double pumper carburetor on this set up instead of a 600cfm vacuum secondaries? besides gas mileage?