'71 with 408W CDAN4 EEC-V retrofit

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Mesozoic

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1971 Mustang fastback restomod. Caged, stiffened, lowered, on 17" wheels with 4 wheel disc brakes and Bilstein dampers. PST polygraphite suspension kit w/Mustangs Plus springs. Custom SEFI-EDIS8 EEC-V injection based on '96 Crown Vic harness (CDAN4 strategy). 90mm induction, LMAF, 80mm Accufab TB, Edelbrock Victor intake, 42# injectors, fully ported RHS Pro Action 215 heads, long tube headers. '69 351W stroked to 408 using Scat 4340 crank, H-beam rods, SRP pistons. Comp Cams 284 Magnum hydraulic roller cam, Canton windage tray and main girdle w/blueprinted standard pressure oil pump. Serpentine conversion using late model 5.0 parts. Backed by a built 4R70W, FB Performance 3000 RPM triple-disc converter, custom alum driveshaft, stock Ford 9" w/3.50:1 billet LS.
Mesozoic, I want to marry you. Wait are you female??

This is exactly the information I was looking for. I attempted to do EFI on the cheap with an old Holley 950 Pro and throttle body. The results were mixed, little more power, less driveability, less gas mileage, and broken something in the engine. Most of that was due I'm sure to my lack of tuning knowledge with the system.

Anyway, I'm going to replicate your process on my 73.

Thank you!!
LOL

Yeah, the '71-73 Mustangs make a good platform for EFI conversions. Minimum of fuss to get wired and cabled up. My next project on the car is going to be reinstating the A/C using a Sanden compressor retrofit, but all hooked up via the EEC so it runs like an OE EFI setup.

 

73StangJK

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So I went to the junk yard to start collecting parts for efi swap. I pulled intake, fuel rail, wiring harness (butchered it a bit) and EEC from a 97 F150. Then I stumbled upon a 95 Explorer and I pulled its upper (which wont work with the 97 351w lower), wiring harness and EEC. I grabbed the stuff off the explorer because less butchering of the harness was required and the computer mounts in an awesome location.

My question is, do I have to do EDIS?

Why is it better than the distributor with TFI?

Yes probably silly questions.

 

Mesozoic

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1971 Mustang fastback restomod. Caged, stiffened, lowered, on 17" wheels with 4 wheel disc brakes and Bilstein dampers. PST polygraphite suspension kit w/Mustangs Plus springs. Custom SEFI-EDIS8 EEC-V injection based on '96 Crown Vic harness (CDAN4 strategy). 90mm induction, LMAF, 80mm Accufab TB, Edelbrock Victor intake, 42# injectors, fully ported RHS Pro Action 215 heads, long tube headers. '69 351W stroked to 408 using Scat 4340 crank, H-beam rods, SRP pistons. Comp Cams 284 Magnum hydraulic roller cam, Canton windage tray and main girdle w/blueprinted standard pressure oil pump. Serpentine conversion using late model 5.0 parts. Backed by a built 4R70W, FB Performance 3000 RPM triple-disc converter, custom alum driveshaft, stock Ford 9" w/3.50:1 billet LS.
So I went to the junk yard to start collecting parts for efi swap. I pulled intake, fuel rail, wiring harness (butchered it a bit) and EEC from a 97 F150. Then I stumbled upon a 95 Explorer and I pulled its upper (which won't work with the 97 351w lower), wiring harness and EEC. I grabbed the stuff off the explorer because less butchering of the harness was required and the computer mounts in an awesome location.

My question is, do I have to do EDIS?

Why is it better than the distributor with TFI?

Yes probably silly questions.
No, not silly questions, a good question really.

EEC-V has EDIS integral to the box, so if you're keen on using a distributor you should probably be looking for EEC-IV hardware. EEC-IV supports more options for ignition, including EDIS and a TFI distributor. The downside to EEC-IV is that the strategy is slightly less refined with less features, the processor is a little bit slower (about 6500 RPM rev limit due to it), and the PCB has some electrolytic capacitors which are prone to failure over time.

EEC-V's PCB is fully integrated with no electrolytic caps, they're all solid state, so life expectancy of the computer should be longer. The faster processor implements more features and can simultaneously control an electronically actuated transmission (4R70W, for example). Incidentally, EEC-V also implements MSD, so no need for an MSD box anymore. I would let the transmission selection dictate whether you opt for EEC-V or EEC-IV.

But to answer your question, the advantage EDIS has over TFI is that the crank position sensing is unaffected by wear in the timing chain or distributor gear since the sensing occurs directly off of the crankshaft. The injector timing is still tied to the cam, but that is far less important than spark timing. The other advantage is that there are no moving parts to wear out. EDIS is fully electronic and the crank sensor is a VR sensor with no active components to wear out. Additionally, the system is totally waterproof and weathersealed (can be submerged). A very durable system indeed.

 

73StangJK

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I have no need for transmission control since I swapped in a Tremec 3550, which I've managed to mess up the third gear synchronize in.

My distributor is worn out and in need of replacement, so if I were to change to EDIS I figure now is the time. I can just grab the other sensors and coil pack from that explorer. Though I will have to modify the cam sensor as you did and somehow rig up the crank sensor.

It looked like the 351w I sourced the intake from had a crank sensor but its harmonic balancer was gone. All the 351w engines had their distributors and balancers missing. Guessing someone went through and got all those. I so wish there were a lightning laying in the yard somewhere.

Thanks for the info!

 

73StangJK

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These are the computers I got...
1ENA3eR


Explorer...

335gp79.jpg



I such at posting pictures.

 
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Mesozoic

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1971 Mustang fastback restomod. Caged, stiffened, lowered, on 17" wheels with 4 wheel disc brakes and Bilstein dampers. PST polygraphite suspension kit w/Mustangs Plus springs. Custom SEFI-EDIS8 EEC-V injection based on '96 Crown Vic harness (CDAN4 strategy). 90mm induction, LMAF, 80mm Accufab TB, Edelbrock Victor intake, 42# injectors, fully ported RHS Pro Action 215 heads, long tube headers. '69 351W stroked to 408 using Scat 4340 crank, H-beam rods, SRP pistons. Comp Cams 284 Magnum hydraulic roller cam, Canton windage tray and main girdle w/blueprinted standard pressure oil pump. Serpentine conversion using late model 5.0 parts. Backed by a built 4R70W, FB Performance 3000 RPM triple-disc converter, custom alum driveshaft, stock Ford 9" w/3.50:1 billet LS.
Unfortunately, both of those catch codes are for strategies that are not widely supported. Either you run them stock with no tuning capabilities, or you replace them with an EEC that is well supported. This is the issue with running the OEM Ford stuff, but in the long run it pays off. Ford computer engineering does NOT fail often and when it works, it works beautifully.

Sailorbob's supported strategies

 

73StangJK

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Unfortunately, both of those catch codes are for strategies that are not widely supported. Either you run them stock with no tuning capabilities, or you replace them with an EEC that is well supported. This is the issue with running the OEM Ford stuff, but in the long run it pays off. Ford computer engineering does NOT fail often and when it works, it works beautifully.

Sailorbob's supported strategies
Is there an advantage to one of the other computer models with a strategy that has edit and datalog?

I'm going to make another trip to the yard and collect the other parts for the EDIS.

Shouldn't be too hard to source an EEC from...

96-97 4.6L Mustang, T-Bird, Crown Vic

96-97 3.8L Mustang

 

Mesozoic

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1971 Mustang fastback restomod. Caged, stiffened, lowered, on 17" wheels with 4 wheel disc brakes and Bilstein dampers. PST polygraphite suspension kit w/Mustangs Plus springs. Custom SEFI-EDIS8 EEC-V injection based on '96 Crown Vic harness (CDAN4 strategy). 90mm induction, LMAF, 80mm Accufab TB, Edelbrock Victor intake, 42# injectors, fully ported RHS Pro Action 215 heads, long tube headers. '69 351W stroked to 408 using Scat 4340 crank, H-beam rods, SRP pistons. Comp Cams 284 Magnum hydraulic roller cam, Canton windage tray and main girdle w/blueprinted standard pressure oil pump. Serpentine conversion using late model 5.0 parts. Backed by a built 4R70W, FB Performance 3000 RPM triple-disc converter, custom alum driveshaft, stock Ford 9" w/3.50:1 billet LS.
Unfortunately, both of those catch codes are for strategies that are not widely supported. Either you run them stock with no tuning capabilities, or you replace them with an EEC that is well supported. This is the issue with running the OEM Ford stuff, but in the long run it pays off. Ford computer engineering does NOT fail often and when it works, it works beautifully.

Sailorbob's supported strategies
Is there an advantage to one of the other computer models with a strategy that has edit and datalog?

I'm going to make another trip to the yard and collect the other parts for the EDIS.

Shouldn't be too hard to source an EEC from...

96-97 4.6L Mustang, T-Bird, Crown Vic

96-97 3.8L Mustang
All of Derek's definitions have edit and datalog capabilities. Since you're not using a computer controlled transmission, you might consider using GUFB strategy computers which are EEC-IV from an '89-93 Mustang V8. They can control EDIS as well as TFI.

Whatever computer you go for, make sure it was originally intended for a V8 otherwise it may not have all the injector drivers and EDIS chip necessary for an 8 cylinder engine.

 

73StangJK

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Trip to the junkyard netted a couple coil packs, a set weird spark plug wires, a 3.8l cam sensor, an 89 Town Car upper intake, and an EEC-V DDX4 from a 97 mustang. I meant to get a picture of the EEC location in that car. It was really easy to get to.

I am a little covered about the eec though. The car was hit on that side and the eec's case is a little dented. I opened the car and the boards looked fine so I will cross fingers and hope it will work.

Now I need the tuning/programmer, crank sensor and wheel, and a connector for the cam sensor. Figuring I will make some detailed instructions on the cam sensor 351w distributor mod since I can't find a step by step.

Figure I spent roughly 400, but that is including 80 in extra parts.

 

Mesozoic

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1971 Mustang fastback restomod. Caged, stiffened, lowered, on 17" wheels with 4 wheel disc brakes and Bilstein dampers. PST polygraphite suspension kit w/Mustangs Plus springs. Custom SEFI-EDIS8 EEC-V injection based on '96 Crown Vic harness (CDAN4 strategy). 90mm induction, LMAF, 80mm Accufab TB, Edelbrock Victor intake, 42# injectors, fully ported RHS Pro Action 215 heads, long tube headers. '69 351W stroked to 408 using Scat 4340 crank, H-beam rods, SRP pistons. Comp Cams 284 Magnum hydraulic roller cam, Canton windage tray and main girdle w/blueprinted standard pressure oil pump. Serpentine conversion using late model 5.0 parts. Backed by a built 4R70W, FB Performance 3000 RPM triple-disc converter, custom alum driveshaft, stock Ford 9" w/3.50:1 billet LS.
Well I can assure you that once it's up and running properly, it is really pretty sweet!

BTW, for the cam sync. What you need is the cam sync housing from a 3.8L V6 Ford. That housing fits the 351W, 351C, 351M, 400, 429, and 460 engines perfectly. You'll also need the cam sync guts from a '99-01 Explorer/Mountaineer. I know the earlier ('96-98) vehicles had cam syncs as well, but the issue is that DDX4, being a CDAN4 strategy, requires a VR (variable reluctance) type sensor. This is actually a good thing because it is a passive unit that should provide much more reliable service life than an active powered Hall effect sensor. In any case, you need to drop the guts of the late model cam sync into the 3.8L V6 housing, add the appropriate distributor gear to it (I used a Comp Cams composite unit), and you're good to go for sequential injection.

 
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73StangJK

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Hrm, I've no idea what year car that sensor came from. Might have been a 98 mustang. I also didn't realize the spell checker on my phone was so terrible. Sorry about the word selection.

 

Mesozoic

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1971 Mustang fastback restomod. Caged, stiffened, lowered, on 17" wheels with 4 wheel disc brakes and Bilstein dampers. PST polygraphite suspension kit w/Mustangs Plus springs. Custom SEFI-EDIS8 EEC-V injection based on '96 Crown Vic harness (CDAN4 strategy). 90mm induction, LMAF, 80mm Accufab TB, Edelbrock Victor intake, 42# injectors, fully ported RHS Pro Action 215 heads, long tube headers. '69 351W stroked to 408 using Scat 4340 crank, H-beam rods, SRP pistons. Comp Cams 284 Magnum hydraulic roller cam, Canton windage tray and main girdle w/blueprinted standard pressure oil pump. Serpentine conversion using late model 5.0 parts. Backed by a built 4R70W, FB Performance 3000 RPM triple-disc converter, custom alum driveshaft, stock Ford 9" w/3.50:1 billet LS.
Hrm, I've no idea what year car that sensor came from. Might have been a 98 mustang. I also didn't realize the spell checker on my phone was so terrible. Sorry about the word selection.
It's easy to tell which sensor is within the cam sync sensor, but I think there might be some confusion about the part. Mustangs started coming with the 4.6L OHC V8 in 1996, so any cam sync sensor from there is not going to work. What you need is a vehicle equipped with a 302/5.0L OHV V8 that had a cam sync sensor... that's basically restricted to 1999-2001 Ford Explorer or Mercury Mountaineer. The earlier Explorer/Mountaineers (1996-1998) had a 302/5.0L with a Hall effect cam sync sensor which won't work with your computer. You need the later model, 1999-2001 cam sync sensor, because it is a variable reluctance type sensor.

An easy way to differentiate them is by looking at the number of pins on the sensor. The Hall effect type will have 3 pins and the VR type will have only 2. Another way to tell is by removing the sensor and inspecting the guts of the cam sync. The Hall effect type has a half moon tine inside, whereas the VR type has a notably smaller tine.

This thing.

Better picture of the tine: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=5239851&cc=1372429&jnid=499&jpid=4

 
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AcesArneson

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Great thread, Kudos!
I have a '73 vert with a 351C that I am restoring and switching over to SEFI. I have found Decipha to be an excellent source of information (like 95% of what I now know). I have never completed an EFI conversion before so I am after picking up everything needed. I was happy to hear all of your opinion on Moates so I think I will go for the Quarterhorse too.

I am using an EEC-V from a 2003 Lincoln Town Car. According to Decipha they are the best choice for conversions due to the speed of the processor. I have a few resources I can add to your list. I am not lucky enough to have any friends that can build brackets or other components for me so I have had to find them premade. I have not had the opportunity to assemble everything yet so I am going off word of mouth from several contributors when it comes to what will fit. It seems like the pandemic has really affected the availability of parts for my build so I have had to make compromises along the way and in places where I refuse to compromise I have had to wait for production to pick back up.

As far as the SEFI components go I picked up the trigger wheel from 64-Bit Tuning Concepts. I haven't fitted it yet but the opening and bolt holes are the same dimensions as my crank pully so it should fit on between the balancer and pully. It means I will have to shim out all of my other pullies but I am cool with that. Incidentally where did you find your pullies for the belt upgrade?

I had been looking for months for the VR sensor and bracket and was pleased when I cam across Innovators West. I was told by several people that I would have to fab up a bracket since Clevelands never came with EFI. These guys have one for all 3 small block motors, so if anyone else is doing one of these projects and needs the VR sensor and bracket, you can get it there. I am Canadian so I have a mail box in Montana. My credit card address and the delivery address do not match so I was unable to ship from Innovators West and called them. They work with Summit Racing so I ordered through Summit and even saved a few bucks, since Innovators sells to them at a discount. They were hard to find on the Summit website so if you go to the Innovators site and get the part numbers you can look them up on the Summit site. They didn't have the listing for the Cleveland bracket but after I called them, they added it to their system so I could order it. Only took a couple of days.

I ordered the camshaft synchronizer from PriceMotorsports, just waiting for it to show.

I am using Coil on Plug for my application to avoid the coil paks.

What O2 sensors did you decide to go with?

The intake manifold was by far the hardest thing for me to find. I was really hoping to pick up a 5.8L GT40 intake and use adapter plates on mu Cleveland but I was having a hard time finding one when I came across an old Offenhauser Port-o-sonic that a guy had drilled out and bunged. I am going to give this a go and use the custom MAF from Pro-M that mounts directly on a 4150 style throttle body inside the aircleaner assembly. I would have simply purchased their whole kit but they are not currently building them because no one is supplying 351C intake right now.

Still a lot of work to do but the video of your immediate start-up has me excited to get it together. Thanks again.
 
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