73 convertible top problem

7173Mustangs.com

Help Support 7173Mustangs.com:

bailer01

New member
Joined
Apr 9, 2022
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
My Car
1973 Mustang Convertible
Just started happening with my top. Whether it's up or down, if I go to put the top up, the motor will run for a few seconds, top moves then nothing. No motor sound and no movement. after a few seconds I will hit the switch again and motor runs and top moves, but then stops. Is this a relay issue?
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
1,681
Reaction score
52
Location
CT
My Car
73 Mustang Convertible
I don't believe there is a relay but there is a circuit breaker usually mounted on the starter solenoid. Check all connections for corrosion and make sure everything is tight.
 

SVGAL42

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2022
Messages
7
Reaction score
1
My Car
P/S, P/DISC BRAKES, P/WINDOWS, A/C, DELUXE 3 SPOKE TILT STEERING WHEEL, FULL CONSOLE W/ WORKING CLOCK, CENTER DASH GUAGE CLUSTER, FORD ALUMINUM WHEEL
I don't believe there is a relay but there is a circuit breaker usually mounted on the starter solenoid. Check all connections for corrosion and make sure everything is tight.
It does sound like the relay, as Tommy has said. I had a similar issue with top and power windows stopping and then after a short while working again for a short time. They are both on the same relay and that is an easy and inexpensive fix.
 

bailer01

New member
Joined
Apr 9, 2022
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
My Car
1973 Mustang Convertible
Thank you everyone! Will check that out
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
1,586
Reaction score
399
Location
Delaware
My Car
Stock 1973 Mustang Convertible with a 351C 2v and C6
Modified 1970 Mach 1 M-Code with a 351C 4v Manual
Just started happening with my top. Whether it's up or down, if I go to put the top up, the motor will run for a few seconds, top moves then nothing. No motor sound and no movement. after a few seconds I will hit the switch again and motor runs and top moves, but then stops. Is this a relay issue?
If you have not done so, check your fluid level. If it is low the pump may working too hard and tripping the circuit breaker on the black yellow dot accessory wire near the solenoid.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
1,051
Reaction score
1,020
Location
Pittsford, NY
My Car
My all time favorite vehicle is our 1969 Shelby GT500
From your description the electric motor brushes sound like they are nearly worn out. But, the convertible top motor is not something I would expect to have been used so much that the brushes would have worn out "already," as compared to brushes in the alternator or starter motor - even the windshield wiper motor or windshield washer motor. But, these are complex machines, and anything is possible. Before chasing down a new motor I think it is worth looking at the entire circuitry for the power top system.

Attached is a snippet from the 1973 Mustang schematic I have, with a correction (actually, one of several minor corrections throughout the master schematic file). The schematic shows Fuse #2 is used for the convertible top switch, but that is not what is really going on. Yep, that's right, the schematic is wrong when they cover the Fuse Block section in the schematic (page 1 of the PDF snippet file).

I have annotated the schematic file that is attached to this comment to reflect how the circuit is really set up. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, there is a circuit breaker coming off the positive cable terminal side of the Starter Relay that feeds the convertible top switch directly. The Circuit Breaker feeds Circuit 175 (Black with Yellow Dot) that then feeds the convertible top switch directly (no relays), and provides power for the optional engine compartment light's mercury on/off switch. No relay for the convertible top is shown in the schematics, and I have never seen a relay for one. The relays I have seen in the 71-73 Mustangs are for the seat back latch actuators (solenoids), the starter, power back-lite, headlight on warning, and power windows. See the right lower section of Page 1 of the file named "1973Mustang_ConvertibleTopCircuitry_20220123.pdf" attached to this message. I hope the schematic helps you out.

I find a lot of intermittent and unusual behaviors are caused by loose or poor grounds. There is a Ground #803 in the schematic, which is shown in both of the last two pages of schematic drawings, but on the last page of the schematic diagrams are drawn details are given re: where Ground #803 is located, along with 3 connector locations and connector drawings (lower right quadrant of the last schematic page in the attached file). I have highlighted those areas with a red box outlining them. Every one of those connections, and the ground, need to be checked before trying to locate a switch and/or motor for replacement, in my humble opinion.

To make things even more complicated, another enthusiast reported to me his convertible top stopped working until he replaced Fuse #4. I recorded that having been reported in the next-to-the-last page in the attached PDF file, but can't make any sense of why that might have happened as Fuse #4 controls no circuits related to the convertible top (see top left of Page 1, and schematic grid location B31 in the attached file). But, I recorded it anyway in case there is a variant wiring not included in the schematic files I have. I am thinking this Car Season I am going to pull Fuse #4 in our 73 Mustang Convertible to see if it impacts our convertible top power or not. I am both betting, and hoping, it does not impact it.
 

Attachments

  • 1973Mustang_ConvertibleTopCircuitry_20220123.pdf
    5.1 MB · Views: 13
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
1,051
Reaction score
1,020
Location
Pittsford, NY
My Car
My all time favorite vehicle is our 1969 Shelby GT500
It does sound like the relay, as Tommy has said. I had a similar issue with top and power windows stopping and then after a short while working again for a short time. They are both on the same relay and that is an easy and inexpensive fix.
If you have found a relay (not the circuit breaker off the starter solenoid) I would like to get a photo of it and its location so I can annotate that on my schematics. Thank you.

An aside, I have never seen a relay for the convertible top circuit, including on out 73 vert Mustang. But, it is possible that circuitry may have had a mid-year change not reflected in the generally available schematics. I have seen worse mid-year wiring changes over the years. Always so much fun to track those down...
 

SVGAL42

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2022
Messages
7
Reaction score
1
My Car
P/S, P/DISC BRAKES, P/WINDOWS, A/C, DELUXE 3 SPOKE TILT STEERING WHEEL, FULL CONSOLE W/ WORKING CLOCK, CENTER DASH GUAGE CLUSTER, FORD ALUMINUM WHEEL
If you have found a relay (not the circuit breaker off the starter solenoid) I would like to get a photo of it and its location so I can annotate that on my schematics. Thank you.

An aside, I have never seen a relay for the convertible top circuit, including on out 73 vert Mustang. But, it is possible that circuitry may have had a mid-year change not reflected in the generally available schematics. I have seen worse mid-year wiring changes over the years. Always so much fun to track those down...
My misuse of words~ I did mean circuit breaker, not relay. So sorry.
 
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
3,821
Reaction score
219
Location
Phoenix
My Car
'73 mustang convt.
I would check the ground. I had a similar problem. Cheap and easy fix if it is the problem. The ground wire runs right from the motor. Mine was attached to the trunk divider.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
1,051
Reaction score
1,020
Location
Pittsford, NY
My Car
My all time favorite vehicle is our 1969 Shelby GT500
My misuse of words~ I did mean circuit breaker, not relay. So sorry.
Gotcha re: Circuit Breaker meant, not Relay. An easy point of confounding to hit. Okay, I can breath easier now. I am, frankly, surprised a relay was not used to keep minimal current from having to traverse the switch contacts. I guess somebody opted to save 25 cents in the cost of assembly.

An aside, if you ever need a wiring schematic, or engine vacuum schematics, my Go To is Forel Publications at the link below. The 1971 and earlier wiring schematics are a bit sparse (from Ford), but better than nothing. The 1972 electrical schematics are much better, and 1973 is really good. That said, I have found a few minor errors that I have annotated on my 1973 schematic file copy. Nothing earth shattering, but worth noting, I think. Also, the 1973 schematics are very close to the 71-72 wiring, with only a few (also) minor differences. If you need 71 or 72, get it, but get the 73 also.

As for vacuum schematics for the engine, the 1973 ShopManual Volume 6 has (finally) some really good info and schematics of many engine calibrations. Luckily many of the schematics, excluding the EGR systems, apply to 71 and 72. Plus Mustang Barn provides the schematics for 67-72 for no fee. With their permission I consolidated their PDF files into a single PDG grouped by year and sorted by engine. It is attached to this post. Feel free to share it on a no fee basis as you see fit.

 

Attachments

  • _1967-1972_Mustang_EmissionControlVacuumSchematics_ConsolidatedGroupedAndSortedByYear__20211003.pdf
    15.2 MB · Views: 6

ocsurfer411

New member
Joined
Oct 18, 2017
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Southern California
My Car
1973 Mustang Convertible. Previous owner(s) have done cosmetic and other conversions to make it look like a Mach 1, including the Ram Air Hood, Mach 1 graphics and a rebuilt 351C 2V V8 Engine (though it shipped with a 351 2V). Interior has been updated from cream to Blue, and the Top updated from White to Black.

She's pretty, but still needs some work.
[url=https://ibb.co/jfoLT6][img]https://preview.ibb.co/dGjuo6/3_pics.jpg[/img][/url]
I don't believe there is a relay but there is a circuit breaker usually mounted on the starter solenoid. Check all connections for corrosion and make sure everything is tight.
While I'm not without skills, Working on cars isn't my specialty. But I can tinker pretty well.
I have a 73' convertible and I have the same thing happening. Whether putting the top up or down, it'll work for a few seconds then stop. If I wait a few seconds (usually 3-4 seconds) and try again it'll continue. Sometimes it stops 2-3 times in the process, sometimes only once.
I'd like to check the ground, the relay, the fluid, etc, but I don't know where any of those things are or how to check them.
Can somebody offer me some guidance?

Thanks.
 

Hemikiller

Well-known member
Staff member
7173 Mustang Supporter Member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
4,721
Reaction score
2,537
Location
Killingworth, CT
My Car
71 Mach 1
71 XR-7 coupe
71 Country Squire
65 coupe
The top motor and other optional accessories are powered through a circuit breaker at the starter solenoid or terminal block, depending on the gauge package your car has. There is no relay in the system, all power goes through the CB and the switch itself. The simpler 71 diagram is shown below.

You can make a jumper to temporarily bypass the circuit breaker for testing. If the top operates normally with it out of the circuit, then a replacement would be in order.

1696418151733.png
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Messages
49
Reaction score
40
Location
Michigan
My Car
1973 convertible
Your print shows a second circuit breaker integral with the pump motor. I think that is an overtemp switch. It doesnt sound like the top was running long enough to get the motor hot enough to trip that switch, but it would be good to feel the motor to see if it is getting hot.
 
Top