Brand new carb : Holley vs Demon vs Edelbrock vs Motorcraft etc. ?

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Sly_drums

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I'm thinking about changing my carb. It's an Holley 1850 (vacuum secondaries) which flows 600 CFM. It's old, shows signs of wear, has no choke and I think it's the next part I'll be changing, it looks like old technology but I'm not sure.

But I don't know which new or rebuilt carb will work best for my motor and using.

Motor is a stock 72 351C-2V. Intake is an aluminium Weiand Xcelerator (single plane). I have long tube headers and dual exhaust. I think I'm somewhere around 250-280 HP.

My Mustang is not a daily driver, just a weekend cruising car, but I want it to provide some fun by pulling a few HP and good torque.

I have the C4 trans right now but I'll swap for top loader in a few months.

My Mustang runs good, especially above 3000 RPM... Maybe a bit loosy under 2500-3000 RPM (because of single plane intake ?).

I'm a bit confused because i dunno what to choose. 650 Speed Demon carbs look amazing but will it run good on my Mustang ? Motorcraft 4300 is always an option (better mileage @ low RPM), Holley spread bore is another one. And I don't know Edelbrock at all...

Mechanical secondaries would be great, I'm not a big fan of vacuum carbs.

Please can you help ?

I'd like to keep the Weiand intake if possible (I can use a spacer if needed) except if you think this ain't a good idea :)

Thanks !

 
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MotoArts

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For your application, hands down I would recommend replacing the Weiand with an Edelbrock dual plane (F351 or Performer, they're the same).

A vacuum secondary 600 carb is something I would positively NOT change, regardless of brand. The 1850 is a fine, basic piece.

Carb brand opinions are like bellybuttons... everybody has one...

BG as a company has gone belly up, so that solves that in my mind.

Once you understand their operation, the Holley and Ed are easy to tune and have a multitude of parts options that the Motorcraft doesn't have. Then again... who wants to mess with tuning a carb 24/7?

Decisions, decisions...

 
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goodnigh

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Can't remember how to start a poll.

But Holley for sure.

Whatever carb you choose, remember you are driving

a Cleveland so "normal" carb specs and settings don't

apply. The math dictates I run no bigger than a 600 CFM

carb on my stock 351 4V Cleveland. 600 is plenty for a

351ci carb; maybe in a Chevy. I run a 770 Holley now and

have plenty of power at all rpm ranges and good gas milage.

mike

 

markafss

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The single plane intake needs to go. A good dual-plane is best. I've had the original 4300 on my 351-4v, and 2 Holleys. I just put on an Edelbrock for their simplicity and reliability. Been great so far. I've had the car since new, and it has 122,000 miles.

I'm thinking about changing my carb. It's an Holley 1850 (vacuum secondaries) which flows 600 CFM. It's old, shows signs of wear, has no choke and I think it's the next part I'll be changing, it looks like old technology but I'm not sure.

But I don't know which new or rebuilt carb will work best for my motor and using.

Motor is a stock 72 351C-2V. Intake is an aluminium Weiand Xcelerator (single plane). I have long tube headers and dual exhaust. I think I'm somewhere around 250-280 HP.

My Mustang is not a daily driver, just a weekend cruising car, but I want it to provide some fun by pulling a few HP and good torque.

I have the C4 trans right now but I'll swap for top loader in a few months.

My Mustang runs good, especially above 3000 RPM... Maybe a bit loosy under 2500-3000 RPM (because of single plane intake ?).

I'm a bit confused because i dunno what to choose. 650 Speed Demon carbs look amazing but will it run good on my Mustang ? Motorcraft 4300 is always an option (better mileage @ low RPM), Holley spread bore is another one. And I don't know Edelbrock at all...

Mechanical secondaries would be great, I'm not a big fan of vacuum carbs.

Please can you help ?

I'd like to keep the Weiand intake if possible (I can use a spacer if needed) except if you think this ain't a good idea :)

Thanks !
 
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Lots of past threads on this topic.

I've built and tuned more Ford's with Holleys then I can count, and the Edelbrock Performer, Torker II(or if you are getting a newer manifold the Air Gap) and Holley carb combination will wake that engine up like you won't believe.

I would recommend either a Holley 4776, or of you wanted to step up one more to a 4777, it would still run strong on there. Like any Holley, getting your jetting right it most crucial. The 4776(600 mech sec) will run real good, but you will need to jet it up a little in the primaries most likely.

Either way, mechanical secondaries is a must for foot to the floor performance.

If you decide to go with the Holley, shoot me your engine specs and I'll send you the jet, nozzle, accelerator pump numbers that will get you real close and save you a bunch of R&D time and money.

Same offer goes to anyone reading this. Like I said, over 25 years of rebuilding and tuning Holley's on Fords gets you a lot of notes and short cuts, that I would be happy to share.

BTW, I am running the Edelbrock Air Gap manifold with Holley 4779(750 with mech secondaries) and it absolutely flies. Probably could have gone up to 800, cause I've got it jetted way up.

Best of luck!



Can't remember how to start a poll.

But Holley for sure.

Whatever carb you choose, remember you are driving

a Cleveland so "normal" carb specs and settings don't

apply. The math dictates I run no bigger than a 600 CFM

carb on my stock 351 4V Cleveland. 600 is plenty for a

351ci carb; maybe in a Chevy. I run a 770 Holley now and

have plenty of power at all rpm ranges and good gas milage.

mike
+2 to what Mike said. Throw the chart out the window with this application. 302 or 351 W, you'd wanna stay at or below a 650, unless it was really pumped the 351W can handle more. The 289 or 302 both run well with a 1850(600 vac secondaries). But if you compare those engines side by side with the Cleveland, why would you limit yourself to the same size carb? Go bigger, you will be glad you did.

 
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Mister 4x4

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The couple of Demon carbs I've seen, have been leakers - even after being sent back to BG and worked over... leaked on return. BG customer service sucked as well - so maybe it's a good thing they're out of business.

Holley makes good products... but they're way more complicated than they need to be. Not to mention the way the bowls are mounted to the carb body invites leaks in the future.

Autolite will offer a stock appearance, but I have no experience with them nor have I heard them mentioned in talks about performance carb upgrades.

Which leaves, Yup - you guessed it: Edelbrock. I'm a huge fan of Edelbrock products - they are pretty much the best equipment for street applications, if you ask me (I'm sure there are better [and more expensive] applications for racing). I've owned a couple cars with Edelbrock Performer carbs, and my good friend Jim has several vehicles with them as well. Simplicity for tuning and operation is why I like them. Not to mention, there is no chance of them leaking onto the engine (unless the float sticks the valve open and keeps pushing gas out of the bowls - which can happen with any carb, really).

My recommendation: Edelbrock Performer 2750 Dual-Plane Intake and Edelbrock Performer 1406 (electric choke) Carb - if you want to stick with 600CFM, that is. The 750CFM is the 1411.

 
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When you go to the toploader, what rearend gear ratio will you run? If under a 3.50 I would stick with vacuum secondaries. If running a 3.89 and up, mechanical secondaries are definitely the way to go in my opinion. In between it is a little gray and I would probably stay with what you have and sdd a choke to it and rebuild it back to specs or have it done if you don't want to tackle it.

I run a 700CFM double pumper on a single plane intake 4V engine. It had a stock cam and worked well with a 4.11 gear. I went to a 3.50 gear and had pretty good performance with no changes. Went to a solid lifter cam, headers, performance ignition system and back to 3.89 gears and it still ran well with only a stock rebuild and some minor tweaking. I'm moving up to an 850 as I think I can benefit from it, but if not, I'll just bolt old reliable back on.

I'm less impressed by the dual plane intakes, but that might be because I am okay with my powerband starting a little higher.

Holleys are the way to go, but not their spreadbore carbs (avoid them like the plague)

 
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Yup...get rid of the single plane...They are good for only pure racing...Reason why your not getting power till 3,000 rpm...And its doing your motor horrible justice.... sence a 2v cleveland is good up too the 5,000 range before it starts to loose it ...cause the heads are made for low rpm normal grunt work....You need a nice low dual plane manifold...And im with mister 4x4...I do like edelbrock stuff....I know its used alot and people like to call it cheap..But i have nothing but good things to say...A 1405 or 1406 will do your car just fine..And need little or hardly any adjustments...Holley little more picky...Sure im putting a holley on my new motor.."but going more race"...But if it was still stock..I would just put the elder 600cfm on...It is all most stock stangs will ever need...and elders manifolds are some of the best in the world for mass production...We had "for chevy" A team g intake from wieldand...a offy 360...and a edelbrock tunnel ram and preformer...You could tell..Edelbrocks casting and port matching was alot closer than the compititions....I guess its from years and years for being on top...They got it very close.

That being said i think they all make good products...I seen them all used with good and bad results.

 
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goodnigh

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The Ford shop manual volume four, engine, says your basic Mustang Cleveland 2/4 venturi came with an Autolite

at 351/605 CFM. While the HO Mustang engines came with Holleys at 780 CFM.

The reason we went from a 670 to a 770 is because the old engine cracked a block so I bought

a rebuilt long block from Don of OMS. The new block has a cam we measured at 0.58 valve lift, so that

meant a bigger carb.

mike

 

Sly_drums

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Thanks for the replies, very interesting stuff !

My plan is to move to toploader trans, so isn't keeping the single plane intake a good idea ? I can't really choose. It seems the 351C-2V motor has enough torque at low RPM for street cruising which is a good thing, but I have the feeling that with the C4 trans it's still a bit loosy in this range with the single plane. I have to say the motor really awakes around 3000 RPM.

My gear ratio is stock (3.25), I plan to move to 3.50 when switching to manual transmission.

Holley sounds good as everyone said, I'm very happy with mine except it's old and I want to replace it, machanical secondaries carb is what I want definitely.

So maybe getting an Edelbrock dual plane intake and Holley 650++ CFM MS carb is the way to go ? Do you think this combo will fit with the toploader ?

 
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cazsper

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I'm not really a diehard fan of any brand. I like what works well for me. For carbs, I like Holley and Deamon. I think your carb is just fine for the power you are making.

For carbureted intakes, I like the Edelbrock RPM Airgap. I think that intake woukd really wake up your engine on the bottom end without losing any for your midrange.

 

Sly_drums

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OK, so you guys advise me to replace my Weiand intake for the Air Gap ? Will it fit on my 351 2v motor ?

Thanks !!

 
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OK, so you guys advise me to replace my Weiand intake for the Air Gap ? Will it fit on my 351 2v motor ?

Thanks !!
Air gaps are nice..But i think its a little over kill for your 2v...I would honestly just get the regular edelbrock cleveland manifold...It fits like the stock one...It will handle more power than your 2v heads can put out...and it fits with stock ram air and such if you decided to put it on....Air gap can cost 100+$ more and i dont think your motor would get much benifits from it..."In my opinion"

http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/2750/10002/-1 this is the one i would get if i owned a pretty much stock 2v cleveland...Save that 100+ dollars if you want.

 
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cazsper

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The AirGap may be a little overkill but, if you ever decide to upgrade the motor with heads, cam, exhaust or even a high compression stroker, you will already have all the intake you would ever need. And you can't beat the looks.

 
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The AirGap may be a little overkill but, if you ever decide to upgrade the motor with heads, cam, exhaust or even a high compression stroker, you will already have all the intake you would ever need. And you can't beat the looks.
I think airgaps are great...but its just a 2v stock motor..I just wouldnt buy that kinda manifold for 2v heads..cause if he does upgrade and need something much much more..Im sure he would be going to 4v heads..and that 2v airgap wont work on a 4v heads and vice versa...But im just thinkin its a bit of a waste on that motor...But they do look good..and wouldnt hurt if he did or not..lol

 
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I have a Demon and love it and it's looks, BUT the Holley is a tried and true thing. I've worked on so many of all the carbs they each have thier owns benfits.

If you have rust or crud in your fuel system Edebrock (Carter?) is the way to go.Plus they look nice and any brand name autopart store has parts.A jet/rod change is way easy to do vs gasket scraping.

You need to be a good driver and know how to launch the car with a DP Holley or Demon. They will make more power but the gas/driviability will suffer a bit. If you need a kick down for the trans Holley makes carbs with that on there.Edebrock sells a kit with a bolt on style kick down.

A well sorted Vac seccondary will BEAT a dp with a average driver behind the wheel in almost all street situations and be way more forgiving. A must for me is a 2ndary meetering block with jets and not a plate.

You can use a smaller carb on the open plane intake and BIGGER on the dual plane intake so keep thst in mind.

My 351 2v (1970 Fastback) has the Holley street Avenger and It is perfect,dual meeting blocks,adj vac seccondarys,kick down linkage for the auto(yes the 4spd is cooler). I ran a 4777,4778,4779, and 850 comp dp(back when the were blue) and the Vac 2ndary spanks them in throttle response, 60ft times and lack of needing to mess with em'.

The ONLY way the DP will work is with a 4spd and 3.73+gears and or a lower 1st gear in the trans.

The 4777 will haul butt on the same intake,but after 3000+.

These are my opinions and do not reflect aganst the rest of the kids and this great website.....

 
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The AirGap may be a little overkill but, if you ever decide to upgrade the motor with heads, cam, exhaust or even a high compression stroker, you will already have all the intake you would ever need. And you can't beat the looks.
I think airgaps are great...but its just a 2v stock motor..I just wouldnt buy that kinda manifold for 2v heads..cause if he does upgrade and need something much much more..Im sure he would be going to 4v heads..and that 2v airgap wont work on a 4v heads and vice versa...But im just thinkin its a bit of a waste on that motor...But they do look good..and wouldnt hurt if he did or not..lol
The dyno says otherwise. The air-gap will indeed work on a 4v motor and make more power in a wider range than many single-plane or other dual-plane manifolds. I hope to have one running on my engine in the next few weeks.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-manifold-mania

 
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