Cannot believe what it costs to have a little surgery.

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I got statements from my insurance company today. I had surgery a few weeks ago. Done in an hour and one night in the hospital and out. Did not cut me open used scope. Do not know if more cost are coming but the total so far is $32,076.32. That is for an hour in operating room and one night at the hospital. My neighbor just happened to be at the mailbox at same time. He said his chemo therapy was $50,000 a visit and had gone over $1,000,000 so far. There is no way it should cost this much this is crazy. I have an insurance policy with no copay and no deductible so I have no out of pocket but this is just stupid.
When I went in the back door to Cuba there was a guy at the airport that had gone to Cuba to have a knee replaced. He was on his way home and doing good. He said they used the same components there they do here but it cost him $800 yes eight hundred dollars. A medical Dr. in Cuba makes $40.00 a month, yes MONTH. Highest paid in Cuba is tobacco farmer he makes the most money for the country so he getst $45.00 a month more than a Dr.. The U.S.A. needs to be turned upside down and dumped and start over. Idiots run this country and think it is all good.
The human body is not like cars there are not hundreds of variations every human has the same components. Not like you have to know a lot to do your part.
I had to vent just no way people can afford it and making all the taxpayers pay for those that do not have is not the answer. That is socialism.
I hate to see what it will cost to cut open my neck got through to my spine and put the plates and screws in my neck. Sanding today put tears in my eyes but not going to quit.

 

Kilgon

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There is no easy answer to the health care problem.  I agree as far as a socialism approach.  That is not the answer.  Socialism is an enabler of the poor and those that don't want to work or pay their way.  I think there needs to be more transparency and uniform fix rates for hospital and medical procedures.  Take a good look over a medical bill and you will be amazed at some of the charges and how they try to hide them. There is such a variance for the same procedure between different hospitals that you wonder how they come up with their numbers.  And if you have to pay the bill they will charge you one price but if your insurance or Medicare is paying for it the price is lower.  Figure that one out.  Also as president Trump has and is wanting to do with allowing the import of medicines from other countries.   Just the difference in that alone could save American families thousands of dollars a year.   Why should we pay premium price for a drug when it can be purchased out side of our boarders for one tenth the cost.    It's going to take time and trial and error but hopefully we will find a solution to provide health care for all at a reasonable price.  

 
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When I lived in China you could go to pharmacy and buy most medications without a prescription. Of course no addictive drugs. If I had sinus infection I could go in get the big book on the counter and look up which antibiotic I wanted and point to it and they would sell it.

 

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There was some fuss here a few months back when because of Brexit, some UK pharmaceutical companies would loose their papers to deliver EU.

Some drugs for live threatening conditions were no longer available and some Dutch chemists decided to make them on demand to cover the lack of them.
Turns out some costing 100k+ a head per year were down to couple of hundreds using the exact same formula. Some already on the market for many years at this high price, the profit generated since release had long ago covered the dev and maintenance of the formula/production. There was no reason to keep the costs that high and health minister under pressure said on medias he'd ask asap the companies to lower their costs... as usual, nothing happened.

It's a story old as the world.. money money money :D

 

Stanglover

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Ask our Canadian and Australian members how they feel about their state-run healthcare system. 
 You forgot to mention the Brits who have the NHS, National Health Service.

No, it's not a perfect system either, BUT my total hip replacement with the latest Titanium "sports model" cost me nothing. I would expect that surgery would be well over 35K. We don't pay "insurance", but the cost is included with our taxes. In Ontario, we currently pay 13% GST (goods and services tax) on just about everything except (most) groceries, which is considerably more that I've seen in the US. I would also think our tax base is higher too. That is why we can afford our not so perfect health care system. That's up and until a senior needs to go into a retirement or nursing home, which are (mostly) privately owned for PROFIT. I could NOT afford to go into either as my pensions and my assets would not provide the approx 3K a month it costs for BASIC care. 

There's a lot to be said about the US system, short wait times for procedures being a biggy, but there's a lot to be said a national health care system too. No it's not all about providing the ones who don't want to work with free everything, it's about providing everyone with good affordable healthcare. By the way, as a retired person no longer with company benefits , I have to pay out of pocket for dentistry and eye glasses. I also have to pay a $100 p/yr co-pay for medication and some meds are NOT covered at all (Viagra!!!). A friend has just been diagnosed with Breast cancer and a meds she needs after each chemo session will cost $3,000 a shot. Now that's called a rip-off.

 

Stanglover

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There was some fuss here a few months back when because of Brexit, some UK pharmaceutical companies would loose their papers to deliver EU.

Some drugs for live threatening conditions were no longer available and some Dutch chemists decided to make them on demand to cover the lack of them.
Turns out some costing 100k+ a head per year were down to couple of hundreds using the exact same formula. Some already on the market for many years at this high price, the profit generated since release had long ago covered the dev and maintenance of the formula/production. There was no reason to keep the costs that high and health minister under pressure said on medias he'd ask asap the companies to lower their costs... as usual, nothing happened.

It's a story old as the world.. money money money :D
How true. All about making money on the backs of the good, working people. 

 

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 You forgot to mention the Brits who have the NHS, National Health Service.

No, it's not a perfect system either, BUT my total hip replacement with the latest Titanium "sports model" cost me nothing. I would expect that surgery would be well over 35K. We don't pay "insurance", but the cost is included with our taxes. In Ontario, we currently pay 13% GST (goods and services tax) on just about everything except (most) groceries, which is considerably more that I've seen in the US. I would also think our tax base is higher too. That is why we can afford our not so perfect health care system. That's up and until a senior needs to go into a retirement or nursing home, which are (mostly) privately owned for PROFIT. I could NOT afford to go into either as my pensions and my assets would not provide the approx 3K a month it costs for BASIC care. 

There's a lot to be said about the US system, short wait times for procedures being a biggy, but there's a lot to be said a national health care system too. No it's not all about providing the ones who don't want to work with free everything, it's about providing everyone with good affordable healthcare. By the way, as a retired person no longer with company benefits , I have to pay out of pocket for dentistry and eye glasses. I also have to pay a $100 p/yr co-pay for medication and some meds are NOT covered at all (Viagra!!!). A friend has just been diagnosed with Breast cancer and a meds she needs after each chemo session will cost $3,000 a shot. Now that's called a rip-off.


True, I did forget to mention the UK. In actuality, it's some fairly good percentage of the rest of the world that has some form of national or universal healthcare, even some that many here in the US would consider "third world". My wife has business associates in Canada who speak very highly of the healthcare system, and are completely baffled at why it's even controversial in a country such as ours. If people here were able to get the care they need without fear of bankrupting their families, we would be much healthier, both mentally and physically. Personally, I find it laughable when people fear monger about taxes going up to pay for a national healthcare system, when the weekly deduction for my health insurance is greater than I pay in federal income taxes, without even any consideration for the percentage my employer pays and the contribution they make toward the family deductible. 

 

Stanglover

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True, I did forget to mention the UK. In actuality, it's some fairly good percentage of the rest of the world that has some form of national or universal healthcare, even some that many here in the US would consider "third world". My wife has business associates in Canada who speak very highly of the healthcare system, and are completely baffled at why it's even controversial in a country such as ours. If people here were able to get the care they need without fear of bankrupting their families, we would be much healthier, both mentally and physically. Personally, I find it laughable when people fear monger about taxes going up to pay for a national healthcare system, when the weekly deduction for my health insurance is greater than I pay in federal income taxes, without even any consideration for the percentage my employer pays and the contribution they make toward the family deductible. 
Hemikiller, I need to be careful here not to offend anyone in the USA, that would never be my intent. My wife and I have many good American friends, some of whom we visit (or used to visit, thanks Covid) on a regular basis, but mention raising taxes, I made that mistake once in a discussion and we thought we were going to be asked to leave. Well you get the picture. 

Canada is relatively a small country, population wise, so we would expect to pay more in taxes to cover health care and good infrastructure, but what burns my ass is the waste of tax dollars on "this study or that study" into nothing worthwhile. Millions of tax dollars per year that could go into heath care for seniors. Hospitals are publicly run, but most retirement facilities are not and privately owned for profit over proper care for the aged. I hope to hell I never have to die in a dump like that, just so some a'hole owner can  buy a bigger house. Most of our Covid deaths have been seniors living in such homes. 

Ok, I'd better stop before I cause a storm and this ain't the place for that.

 

Fabrice

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€ 110,90


 


 € 385*




 € 106,90


 


 € 485




 € 104,90


 


 € 585




 € 101,90


 


 € 685




 € 98,90


 


 € 785




 € 90,90


 


 € 885





This is the basic monthly insurance each and everyone pays here in the Netherlands known since last nite for 2021. Covers most but excludes stuffs like physiotherapy, extra dental care, special support. You can add extra coverage, for instance extra dental care would then cost you an additional $10 to 60 extra per month to be fully covered depending on your own needs. 
The right column of the costs above is the so called Own risk by this company. Where you first need to have payed with own pocket this amount before you can expect your insurance to cover any costs that goes above. 385 euros is the base defined by gov for own cost per year next to the monthly payment.

Here you can see (using gg translate in browser) what additional support cost you

https://www.unive.nl/zorgverzekering/aanvullende-verzekering

There is no unified system in Europe for this, it's different in each EU member country. All having their pro's and cons.
For instance in Sweden a day in hospital cost you $10 per day while in France that would cost you a couple of hundreds. 
Way bellow than what I know some of my friends in the USA have to pay...

 

turtle5353

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I got hit in the mouth the other day and broke a tooth.  Going to cost me between $3500-$5000 to have my tooth fixed. Thats with insurance with a deductible of $3,000.   I pay approx. $400 per month for health insurance. Gotta love it.........  But if I didnt have a job and no insurance its free......... WTF

 

Fabrice

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@turtle5353  Looks like 2020 wasn't your best year!!

"But if I didnt have a job and no insurance its free......... WTF"

Aside the costs. I think that is one of the core problem of your system. It's of course as is all looking unfair, but to me the real problems are much deeper and not even care related but having a massive impact on it, preventing it to be efficient or even fair. As far as I know, correct me if wrong, one can be put on the street and left with nothing. So would this mean a guy who lost everything should be refused any care simply because he is broke? Not everyone choose to be homeless or be poor/broke on purpose, at least not the vaste majority. I've seen enough US poverty on TV to know many would gladly work and pay their share if they could. I think that is a good thing they got covered up to a certain level. Now some changes have to be made to make it affordable and fair to everyone else.

One thing is sure, Mr Biden has some serious work to do ahead of him regarding improvements of the US care...

 

tony-muscle

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One great thing that happened here a few years ago is ridding of preexisting conditions. This was not affecting people in group insurance such as company insurances. However, at that time I was working at a very small company and I had to pay for my own individual insurance. In that case, they went through all my records and for every time I had been to the Dr. for whatever issue they will include a rider excluding expenses related to said issue. This was so annoying. Worst, is that I had to go through this process every year. So the next year it will exclude whatever I went to the Dr. for the previous year. It was like, WTF. Why do I have insurance anyways if they didn't cover anything? That was definitely a positive change that occurred about 10 years ago.

 

73droptop

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I agree the healthcare issue is bad, it all started when Hillary was fist lady.  She stated pushing more government involvement in healthcare.  I'm self employed and have been paying my own premiums since 2000.  Every time there is a health care give away conversation from the Libs premiums jump more then usual.  The HMOs all knew the government was eventually going to force everyone to have healthcare insurance, so they just kept jacking up rates until the Feds eye turned toward them but that didn't slow them down, only more excuses.  There was no provision in the ACA to stop raising premiums, way to go.  Since the ACA came out my premiums go up at least 10% a year.  For 2021 I will pay $ 14,000 in premiums. For that privilege I get a $12,000 copay. If I paid more in premiums my copay would go down.  To make it even more frustrating, through income taxes,  I get to pay a portion of everyone's health care that wont go to work and get their own insurance.  The Obama healthcare reform was not reform it was a new tax.  If you want health care reform get rid of HMOs and let everyone pay their own premiums, then you will see prices come down.  I feel for you David.  Why aren't you on the ACA?  

 

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True, I did forget to mention the UK. In actuality, it's some fairly good percentage of the rest of the world that has some form of national or universal healthcare, even some that many here in the US would consider "third world". My wife has business associates in Canada who speak very highly of the healthcare system, and are completely baffled at why it's even controversial in a country such as ours. If people here were able to get the care they need without fear of bankrupting their families, we would be much healthier, both mentally and physically. Personally, I find it laughable when people fear monger about taxes going up to pay for a national healthcare system, when the weekly deduction for my health insurance is greater than I pay in federal income taxes, without even any consideration for the percentage my employer pays and the contribution they make toward the family deductible. 
Most of the complaints about national or universal healthcare are that it create 'death panels' deciding who lives and who dies, rationing of healthcare, that our taxes will go up, and we will have extraordinary wait times. Well, thanks to our handling of Covid we will soon have doctors deciding who lives or dies based on the lack of equipment and personnel due to the shear numbers of people needing hospitalisation. As has been mentioned by another, what I pay in premiums thru my wifes healthplan would easily cover my increased taxes and leave plenty for car stuff. As for the wait times, frequently friends and relatives complain about not being able to get appointments and procedures/surgeries sooner than two, three or more months out. And 'rationing of healthcare'? What does everyone think an HMO is? Or needing to get permission to see a doctor or get something done? 

And that is all with decent insurance with substantial deductibles.

If you don't have insurance, you get basic stabilizing care and then shipped off somewhere else. Having a heart attack? You get the new guy cardiologist in training, not the guy that is a leader in the field.

A friend of mine with no insurance went to the emergency room for a kidney stone. 12 hours and two CT scans later he got a bill for $10k. The scans were $2500 each.  The stone apparently passed between scans. He paid his bill.

I went with a pinched nerve in my neck that had me screaming if I didn't turn and hold my head all the way to the right. 6 hours in the ER and one MRI (three tries, though, as I couldn't keep my head straight). The morphine didn't do squat. $12,000. By the time to discounts were applied and the hospital and insurancde company settled on $3500, I only had to pay $1200....because I had decent insurance. If I didn't have insurance and didn't pay, the hospital would write that off as a $12000 loss or charge it to the government. Since that hospital does not accept patients without insurance, I really don't know what they would have done if I hadn't had it...drug me up and send me elsewhere?...oh, yeah, that's right, the drugs weren't working!

 
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Gosh we sound like a bunch of worn out rusty Mustangs needing all kinds of repair and parts, lol. This virus might turn it all upside down you never know what the outcome will be. I have enough food and supplies for a couple years if smart. I was late looking for ammo. I have a few thousand rounds but you cannot buy ammo anywhere. Powder went away months ago to reload. People are hording for the worst for sure.

 
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