Changing out brake lines for Stainless

[jowens1126]

I received my new brake lines today.  They came from NPD and are made by Classic Tube.  I must say the quality is outstanding.  I did some test fitting today and everything seemed to be very close.  It should connect up with only some minimal adjustment.

In the process, I seem to have come across some questions.

I little history first.

My car has 4 wheel Manual Drums.  At some point within the next few months I will be converting over to Power Disc/Drum.  Most of the stuff I got is for that purpose.

The line kit is for Disc/Drum.  I got an aftermarket Proportional Valve to go with it.  I have been having a nagging problem in the rear circuit.  The brakes suck at their best, but at least they stop.  From time to time though they will completely go out.  When I check the fluid reservoir, the rear chamber is nearly empty.  I visually inspected every part of the system and see no obvious signs of fluid leaking.  All 4 wheel cylinders are new.  All 4 drums have been recently machined out, with new shoes and all.  I took it to a mechanic and he said it was leaking thru the sensor on the distribution block, so I had them put in a repair kit and that at least slowed the leaking process.  My suspicion is that it is still leaking.  The lines are in such terrible shape that they really need to be changed. 

Today I went and jacked it up and looked over the lines and all trying to make sure that all the new parts will fit.  In the process, I discovered that the distribution block has 2 different size inlet line fittings.  3/8-24 for the fronts, and 7/16-24 for the rears.  The outlet fittings are 3/8-24 for the front and 1/2-20 for the rear circuit.  Thats fine for the stock system, but my Proportional Valve has all 3/8-24 fittings.  So I am kind of stuck till I get that sorted out.  I did fine some adapters at advanced, but I have using those as its just one  more place a leak could happen.  So Monday I am going to call up this custom line shop in town and see what they would charge to flare on the proper fittings.  I doubt it will be too expensive.  The rear main feed line that plugs into the distribution block is the only one I will have replaced because it needs to work with the new proportional valve.  All those fittings are 3/8-24.  Im going to use adapters on the master cylinder lines till I finalize my Master cylinder choice.



I was looking over everything and it looks like I can get to most everything with it up on 4 jack stands.  The crossover line on the firewall isn't going to be any fun at all but I think its doable. I am HOPING I can re-use all the clips.  They are not in the best of shape but im going to give it a shot.  



All the oil is a Leaky Pinion seal.  Thats going to be one for way down the road.





Looking at the rear axle, I was wondering how these clips work.  One side is welded to the axle and It LOOKS like I can just pry up the back side of the clip to release the old line, then put the new one in and bend them back in place.





There is also another one of these on the pumpkin.  You can see the new line laying above the old one, all the bends look pretty close.





Then theres this thing.  Im not 100% sure what to do with this.  It looks like its going to disintegrate if I can figure out how it comes off.  



Looking at the clamp from this angle, it LOOKS like its all held on by the axle breather.

If im not mistaken, the breather has flats on it and should unscrew if its not rust-welded to the axle tube.

Does anyone make this clamp????  Or have any ideas how to replicate it?  





I also was wondering if anyone knows if the master cylinder outlet fittings on a Manual Drum Master cylinder are the same as on a Stock Disc/Drum master cylinder.

The Master cylinder lines that came with the line kit are 1/2-20 in the front and 3/8-24 on the rear.

I THINK my Drum Master has a 9/16-18 on the Front and 7/16-24 on the back.  

The stinking websites dont have any information on line sizes on the master cylinders they sell.  

Hopefully someone here has an answer.

Thanks.

Jim

 

[Bentworker]

Personally I think stainless brake lines require an exorcism to get them to fit compared to plated steel lines.

That unit you have from wilwood is a nice unit, I have the same on my GMC pickup. However on the mustang I went a different route to more closely match the combo valve. You can see what I did in the photo. Made a bracket to bolt a wilwood prop valve and a tee with similar port positions to the stock combo valve. My lines to both front brakes and the rear axle are stock. You can see the adapter I had to use in the prop valve. The lines up to the master I bent up, and flared.

Not sure this will be any help to you but it is an alternate idea.

 

[jowens1126]

I have been avoiding getting a flaring tool. Though they are easy to use, a good one that will do the job the first try every time is expensive. The parts store rental tools are just like the harbor freight tool. When you clamp them, they tend to shift making your flare stuck. About the only way to avoid that is using the tool in a vise. It's been 20 years since I made brake lines and the tool quality has really gone to hell.

Your setup looks great. That master is similar to the one on my bronco.

 

[Don C]

I have two of the beam type that were bought back when they said made in USA, and one of the more expensive "deluxe" "professional" ones, also made in the USA. With hard tubing and double flares they all tend to slip some.

 

[Stanglover]

I had absolutely no problem using SS lines, but I do suggest getting a really GOOD set of line wrenches, you'll need 'em!

I did mine when I swapped from drums up front to discs, so I can't say for sure if you'll have problems mating up to the drum fittings. I know there are different front lines for drum and disc, I bought both just in case. I suggest replacing your rubber hoses as well back and front.

I've posted my install of discs and lines several times if you care to search. Personally, if you don't have a brake line failure right now, I'd wait and do it all at the same time. That way you can be sure you're not re-doing and replacing stuff you just put on.

Geoff.

 

[Ed Raver]

Just a thought:  Consider changing the flex line between the rear differential and the body. On my car it was obviously spongy and made a great difference when I changed it, also during the process of going to 4 wheel disc.  I hope that helps you.  Ed Raver

 

[Bentworker]

BI broke down and bought one of those “slot machine” style flare tools.  They are quite bulky and should be used in a bench vise.  However with that tool you get perfect flares, even on stainless.  Does metric bubble flares too.  Used it to flare nipples on fuel line, do custom transmission cooler, brake and fuel lines.

So, find a gearhead buddy with a hole in his / her pocket and talk them into buying one... then borrow it.

They are not a total replacement for the double beam style flare tool since they are not that portable and cannot work as close to a bend as the other style.  However, even with a decent snap-on double flare tool I have never found that style to be reliable on anything other than plated steel or nicopper lines.  If it is the grey / black  coated line or stainless the older style of flare tool seems to have about a 50% success rate for me.

 

[jowens1126]

All my rubber lines were replaced last year. So once I get the hard lines done it will have a 100% new brake system.

I think I will just go get the hose company to put a new end on the main line so I dont have to struggle with it.

 

[Fabrice]

@bentworker

What do you use to make the lines straight? You used one of these or similar?

https://www.vocor.nl/remsysteem/240-bitumen-bodemplaatbescherming-blik-1-kg-5018341049195.html?search_query=Remleiding+rechtmaak+&results=43

 

[Mister 4x4]

Personally I think stainless brake lines require an exorcism to get them to fit compared to plated steel lines.

Totally agree!  I got a stainless kit from Inline Tube, and Ermergerd they were a major PITA to get sealed up.  Stainless is way less forgiving when it comes to crushing to fit.  I'm lucky I didn't strip out any of the fittings because I'm thinking if there was a way to put a torque wrench on them, one would see that I had cranked 'em down harder than the lugnuts, just to get them to quit dripping.

 

[clevelandcoupe]

Guys,

I have only seen stainless steel lines used and never had any experience in installing whatsoever, but I will say that what I have heard and read is that the best results are obtained using a hydraulic flaring tool along with a seat reaming device once flared. I believe that due to the hardness of the material during flaring you need to face or ream the flare prior to connecting. This will give you a good seat that you do not need to tighten to death in order to stop leaks. Eastwood sells both items at a reasonable cost.

Thanks, Jay

 

[Stanglover]

Just wondering why all the talk about flaring SS tubes. I can only relate to when I did mine back in 2010. The preformed line kit I bought was from NPD. I did not have to cut or otherwise rework anything other than when I went back 2 years ago and added the brake booster. Then I did need to re-bend a section to get around the bottom of the booster. Originally I stayed with manual front 4 piston disc brakes, so that area was not a concern. I will say though, it was a bit*h to bend the reinforced corner piece. Other than that, I had no problem with leaks.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Guys,

I have only seen stainless steel lines used and never had any experience in installing whatsoever, but I will say that what I have heard and read is that the best results are obtained using a hydraulic flaring tool along with a seat reaming device once flared. I believe that due to the hardness of the material during flaring you need to face or ream the flare prior to connecting.  This will give you a good seat that you do not need to tighten to death in order to stop leaks. Eastwood sells both items at a reasonable cost.

Thanks, Jay

Done, and Done... using Snap-On Blue-Point tools, even.  Still a major PITA to get sealed up.

Probably less of an issue with the lines and flares themselves, than with the OEM-style calipers, MC, and rear drum cylinders from O'Reilly Auto Parts, and their Chinese vendors.

 

[jowens1126]

No one has commented about the link ed brackett. Does the bracket at the rear rubber line come apart by removing the axle breather?

And does anyone make a new one?

@stanglover The reason for changeing the fitting on the line is due to my proportional valve choice.

 

[Stanglover]

No one has commented about the link ed brackett. Does the  bracket at the rear rubber line come apart by removing the axle breather?

And does anyone make a new one?

@stanglover The reason for changeing the fitting on the line is due to my proportional valve choice.

 I can't answer the question about the bracket, but I do have to replace the rubber hose next spring when I plan on refurbing the rear axle.

As for the prop valve, I'm pretty sure you can get an adaptor to fit. I had to do that for mine. Far easier than re-flaring the tube, but not as nice looking maybe.

Geoff.

 

[clevelandcoupe]

Yes just remove the breather hose and unscrew the nipple fitting to remove bracket.

Thanks, Jay

 

[jowens1126]

Thanks guys.

 

[mustang7173]

jowens1126,

As for upgrading your front drums to disc, you can you your existing spindles with the conversion kit from www.mustangsteve.com. I used the 1994-2004  Mustang COBRA  13″ Front disc.

https://www.mustangsteve.com/product-category/front-disc-brake-conversion-brackets/

Here is my install thread.

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-cobra-disc-brake-conversion?highlight=mustang+steve