Engine won't fire up with Sniper

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Fabrice

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So after weeks waiting got my fuel hoses and starter broke the moment I wanted start the sniper for first time. (what were the odds)

Now got the new starter in place, time to try: tadaaaa.... nothing :(

The starter --> wow. way better than the previous hi-torque mac leod. Engine kranks like a modern car!

but now engine won't start with the sniper... 

The handheld device gives me all sensors, all within range.

Got a non ECU controlled setup. (so yellow wire at neg pole of the bobine)

Got fuel going in (and back as well, I can hear it flush back in tank when I stop cranking)

Got RPM's tach signal, seen by handheld while cranking.

During crank, once every few rotations, the engine makes one or two attempts, but not enough to really fire up.

Then measured the current at (pink wire of unit)

supposed to be a 12v during crank and while key on. I saw it drops to 10 something.

I've seen few reports of the unit failing if not 11+.

I'm currently using a splice of the green/red wire, right after the ignition switch.

So question is, if its not this wire, which one would give me 12V key-on and during cranking?

 

Robsweden

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Be aware dont crank to many times or engine will be flooded

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Robsweden

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I used the same wire as the msd box at crank should be Pink

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Robsweden

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Is the battery charged ? You could run Another wire directly to sniper unit just to check if it starts.

Which distrbuitor are you using ? Try to disconnect the battery for a few seconds and try again, does the handheld flash when you crank the Engine ?

Do you have the air filter on ?

 
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Fabrice

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Rob,

its the pink wire of the unit, spliced on column after the switch using the reg green wire

-->Q: there are actually two, one supposed to go to starter solenoid, one to coil.

they have same color. Could there be a diff here?

-->Q2: you have 12v during cranking on this wire?

-->Q3: how could I make a new source, as we need go thru the ignition switch?

[is the battery charged ? ]

Battery is new, fully charged, and KO test shows steady 12V+ on device.

In between trying, I let the battery be recharged. The new starter turns the engine with zero effort, like if it was a Fiat 500 engine :)

Using a mallory distributor, and the handheld device gets a tach signal.

[does the handheld flash when you crank the Engine]

no stays on, no sign of juice shortage. while its just above 10v as voltmeter shows.

[be aware dont crank to many times or engine will be flooded]

I've checked plugs and there were dry. Even after "long" crank. Which will bring me to next test: poor some fuel by hand and try right after

if I get some start. On a carb situation where engine would behave like this during crank, i'd have pumped a few times.

--> Q4: In wizard set camshaft choice as the default, stock/mild. Mine is a 278, is it more street/trip and could it make a difference?

 

Robsweden

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Ive not hooked it up like , because I have the msd box. I only used a wire from the ignition switch the same that goes to coil.

Do you hear the fuel pump ? Connections correct on inlet/outlet on the sniper efi fuel lines ? The plugs should not be dry, because it squirts an amount on every crank. Mine is 280 and I use street/strip

Try to disconnect battery and redo wizard

Regards Rob

 
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Fabrice

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[Do you hear the fuel pump]

Yup, when I turn key, I hear it, stops after few secs as specified.

[ Connections correct on inlet/outlet on the sniper efi fuel lines ?]

Yup, checked 200 times.

[The plugs should not be dry, because it squirts an amount on every crank.]

Yeah and that's what the engine feels too, on carb, if it would "almost", i'd pump to help it

Tried pour 1/2 small glass fuel, no change tho.

Tomorrow, I'll try disconnect and put into jerrycan the main feed to see if it really delivers as expected

or if it's somehow restricted.

Also while checking everything, I saw fuel lines side from back wheel to front that were placed with some bits of tension

hold every 30cm, to stay nicely under car floor, were now hanging like xmas decoration. On the +- 2 meter, I have now something like

8 cm extra vs during instal if i put them back under tension on the whole length. Looks these Vapor Guards hoses supposed to handle all modern fuels have reacted to fuel..

Will prolly replace these by hard line, but will do this later after that damn thing does something.

 

Robsweden

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If you detach the fuel line that goes Into the sniper and put it Into a can you can check pressure. Check the settings for pressure in the handheld.

Regards Rob

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Don C

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Double check that the red and black wires are correctly connected to the battery and that the fuse is good.

The red-light green stripe wire, at the ignition switch before it connects to the resistor wire, is the feed wire for the coil when the ignition key is in either run or start. The light green-red stripe wire provides reference voltage to the voltage regulator and excitor voltage to the alternator I believe only when the key is in run, not during cranking.

It is normal for the battery voltage to drop a couple of volts when cranking. Because you have been cranking without the alternator charging it I would connect a battery charger to make sure the voltage to Sniper doesn't get too low for it to function.

 

Fabrice

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Don & Rob (thx for the reply guys, appreciate the help atm...),

Don,

Battery is new, battery cables are not corroded and sniper b and r wires are on both poles. triple checked them.

The display gets its power from this source just like the unit. So a blown fuse in unit harness would not allow the sensors to be ok on display if display would light up at all.

On key on, the unit boots ok and is ready after 2.5 secs. The fuel pomp also turned during that time.

battery power is on unit during cranking and displays 12.3 volts. Will try find out where is the fuse in this new harness and check it.

[it is normal for the battery voltage to drop a couple of volts when cranking.]

Yes but so far I could dig some infos on fora's, the lack of having 12v is often given, as some have much bigger drops causing the handheld and unit to fail.

And this drop is now seen like some basic install mistake, for bad wiring or wrong sources, its very hard to tell is related to what I see or not.

[i believe only when the key is in run, not during cranking.]

The pink wire is 10+ volts during cranking, so I guess I have the right one. Tho will do again some gym tomorrow to test the other to see if its hot while cranking and compair its voltage.

Would it stay on and drop less during cranking, I'll swap the source.

[ I would connect a battery charger to make sure the voltage to Sniper doesn't get too low for it to function.]

I guess i can do this, tho up till now, I was disconnecting the charger in between tests. The new starter turns with great ease and doesn't drain the battery as the old hi-torque would have done quickly.

The battery is also high amps, something like 80+, so it can handle.

Rob,

[if you detach the fuel line that goes Into the sniper and put it Into a can you can check pressure.]

Yeah I will, tho how do I measure pressure? I have a fuel pressure sensor for injection, that I used for my t-bird 5.0, but don't think I can connect it easy...

so could you extend on the way to check the pressure with the handheld device?

For now, I saw it gave me a 60 psi after pump load of turn key.

I will also clean up/inspect all plugs, vs only cyl 1, the easy accessible one :) , as I recall I have dual plane, and may be some other are flooded

As its nite over here, I will continue in the morning (if my wife doesn't get some todo idea :) )

Meanwhile, any ideas, things to checks --> shoot!

 

Don C

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I have never had a car that doesn't drop below 12 volts when cranking.

It sounds like everything is connected so it should run.

So, the only other thing is timing and spark. Make sure you have good spark and check the timing while you crank it.

I would also hold the throttle wide open and look in it to see if you can see the injectors squirting while you crank it.

Have you downloaded the troubleshooting manual?

http://documents.holley.com/199r11369.pdf

 
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midlife

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Nobody has mentioned timing being bad; have you done anything in that area prior to the problem? Are you getting any spark out of a spark plug?

 

Fabrice

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mmm yeah, very good point, I should have checked that right away. As it was running fine before, been blinded by the lack of starter, all the new stuffs and focused on the sensors readings.

Forgot the basics of a combustion engine!

First on todo: find someone to turn key, while checking it's set 15 deg btdc during cranking with unit/pump disconnected...

 

Fabrice

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To set timing is just a matter of turning the distributor, while watching deg marks on damper with the strobo light... right

Unfortunately when you have a gremlin living in your garage like me, the damn distributor won't turn at all. Tried be gentle, then got more agressive

no movement, taped and taped and taped... its like one with the block... a few bad and loud words later, cleared a much as possible on edge and soaked it with penetrant oil...

will try again tomorrow.

Very frustrated, tried change spark time via device, no change, still got the "almost" but not really. Did loose the fuel feed from unit, fuel went in jerrican in massive quantity during load.

Checked plugs and spark, very nice one.

So for now, stuck with this distributor till I get it loose. Got shit load of chemical receipts found on forum, everyone promoting own fav penetrating oil.

I've ignored the "let the engine warm up and.." ones. Tried also move it while cranking.

In case oil doesn't help, is there some kind of tool to lift that damn thing just so it pops a bit?

 
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midlife

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If your dizzy is that tightened down and won't move, then your timing (at least from the distributor) has not changed. Did you remove any spark plug wires prior to this problem? Work on the timing chain?

You can still test timing with a timing light and cranking the car...

 

Fabrice

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[You can still test timing with a timing light and cranking the car...]

ah yeah that...

did I mention the gremlin took my strobo light out too?

So eating a bit and gonna test it on my wife's car, if it fires, there is something wrong with Mr Dizzy

as It should fire the light using cyl 1 wire.

In such bad mood atm...

 

Fabrice

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Full belly, tested stroboscopic light on my t-bird, no prob. So why don't I get any light on the mustang while cranking?

Checked the contacts from each wires, cap, and the contact on rotor, no cracks, no corrosion, as new.

Also just tried also to use a steering wheel puller on block to try lift... haven't put massive force (yet), the distributor still doesn't want move at all.

may be tomorrow oil will have done something... if not, I'm gonna need some tool or fabricate one to pull that thing off.

Any tips?

 
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When I rebuilt my 302 out of my bronco, I had absolute he'll getting the distributor out. There was so much shellac and goo built up around the base of it, it practically super glued it to the block. It took spraying down with wd-40 specialist penetrant every 30 mins for 4 hours. Each time I tapped on the base with a piece of wood and a hammer to try and knock it loose. Then tried twisting and pulling. Eventually it worked.

 
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