Header install

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Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Messages
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Location
Washington Twp. Mi
My Car
1972 Mach 1 Q Code
Having some headers installed on my 72 Mach 351c 4v and was wondering if you guys could tell me about how long it should take? I have the same shop where my car is for accident repairs doing this install. They are trying to charge me for 4 hours of labor to bolt them to the block. They have a lift to do this with. I’m pretty sure that I could do that in 4 hours in my garage on the floor with a bad arm!

The headers are the Hooker 6915 Competition black ceramic coated ones. I know that they fit very easily with no modifications. I have had them do a complete engine rebuild, plus other stuff and they are trying to hit me up for 1,680 bucks for them! 635 for the headers, 260 to remove exhaust manifolds and install the headers, 685 to have a h-pipe made up and connected to the headers and then connected to the existing mufflers and 100 to trailer it there and back. I know that they have to mark stuff up but this seems a bit much.

I sure would appreciate any and all responses, thanks

 
The hardest part in my opinion will be to get the manifolds off and the block cleaned off of the old gasket material. That in itself will take a couple hours. I just finished doing this exact job on the yellow mach 1 I had here. A couple of the bolts broke off in the block and a couple bolt heads were very rusty and rounded off. I ended up pulling the motor to make things easier. But since they just had your motor out, the bolts should come out fairly easy. Fours hours to remove the old manifolds and install the new headers seems about right. The headers are easy to install from underneath especially with a lift. $685 for an H-pipe install seems a bit high. I paid $700 for a complete 2.5" stainless system custom bent and installed with x-pipe and flowmaster mufflers. https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-yellow-mach-1-is-back-again?page=17

 
I would find a shop that specializes in exhausts and ask them how much. Find out if they are a dealer for Hooker headers, if not buy them yourself for them to install.

 
The hardest part in my opinion will be to get the manifolds off and the block cleaned off of the old gasket material. That in itself will take a couple hours.  I just finished doing this exact job on the yellow mach 1 I had here. A couple of the bolts broke off in the block and a couple bolt heads were very rusty and rounded off.  I ended up pulling the motor to make things easier. But since they just had your motor out, the bolts should come out fairly easy. Fours hours to remove the old manifolds and install the new headers seems about right. The headers are easy to install from underneath especially with a lift.  $685 for an H-pipe install seems a bit high.  I paid $700 for a complete 2.5" stainless system custom bent and installed with x-pipe and flowmaster mufflers. https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-yellow-mach-1-is-back-again?page=17
Thanks turtle, was hoping you would reply as I know you just did this. I think the h-pipe and install is pretty high too. Can get an entire system for not much more. I just thought the 4 hours to remove the manifolds and install the headers was to long. And ya the exhaust manifolds had already been removed from the engine rebuild, so they had to come back off very easy. Plus they knew I was having the headers put on so I don’t know why they installed the engine with them on.

 
I would expect your old headers would be easy to remove if they just did engine work. They are probably going to use two people to install so 2 hours each is not really over the top.

If you were here could use my lift and I would help for free.
Ya that’s probably why they charged me for 4 hours.

Thanks David, I’m sure you would!

 
My $.02

As a dedicated "Mustang" shop and having just done a huge amount of work to your car, they should be embarrassed to charge you four hours for a header installation. They just had that drivetrain completely apart and the exhaust will come apart in minutes. You don't have to pad it for the inevitable broken or stripped bolts that happen with old cars.

I could do the header install with a jack and jackstands in a 2~3 hours, probably an hour with a lift. The 6915 headers are super easy to install, even the header bolts are cake. IIRC, there are maybe three that require the use of an open end wrench that you can't get a socket on.

Nearly $700 for an H-pipe? WTF....

 
My $.02

As a dedicated "Mustang" shop and having just done a huge amount of work to your car, they should be embarrassed to charge you four hours for a header installation. They just had that drivetrain completely apart and the exhaust will come apart in minutes. You don't have to pad it for the inevitable broken or stripped bolts that happen with old cars.

I could do the header install with a jack and jackstands in a 2~3 hours, probably an hour with a lift.  The 6915 headers are super easy to install, even the header bolts are cake. IIRC, there are maybe three that require the use of an open end wrench that you can't get a socket on.

Nearly $700 for an H-pipe? WTF....
I have to agree here. Took me all of about 2 hours to install my headers with a jack and jack stands and that included a beer or two.

 
Thanks guys, I sure appreciate your input. I think I need to talk to them about it. I didn’t ask them before hand how much this would be, my fault for that. But I sure didn’t think they would charge me so much for this. I think they are trying to make up for some other hours that they couldn’t charge me for or something.

Things have gone pretty good with them until I got this last invoice from them. I am all for them making a buck, but I just thought this was pretty expensive, hopefully they just made an error, we’ll see. Thanks guys!

 
Just a bit of info to maybe bring up when discussing with them. Looks like they are charging a $65/ hour shop rate ($260/4hr = $65/hr)

Take that with the $685 for the H-Pipe (minimal cost for pipe) and they are basically telling you it took them 10 hours to make and fit the H-Pipe.

They marked the headers up by $100 over what you would pay at Summit, so if they are a hooker dealer or at least likely buying wholesale they marked those up considerably. Typical protocol when buying parts/etc wholesale and selling retail you mark it up to retail price, not almost 20% over retail.

Hope this helps in your discussion with them and you can come to some sort of resolution.

 
Just a bit of info to maybe bring up when discussing with them. Looks like they are charging a $65/ hour shop rate ($260/4hr = $65/hr)

Take that with the $685 for the H-Pipe (minimal cost for pipe) and they are basically telling you it took them 10 hours to make and fit the H-Pipe.

They marked the headers up by $100 over what you would pay at Summit, so if they are a hooker dealer or at least likely buying wholesale they marked those up considerably. Typical protocol when buying parts/etc wholesale and selling retail you mark it up to retail price, not almost 20% over retail.

Hope this helps in your discussion with them and you can come to some sort of resolution.
Yes, their shop rate is 65 per hour, very reasonable. I don’t think they are a hooker dealer. But they took my car by trailer to an exhaust shop that they use. So the exhaust shop made the h pipe and did the connection. 

I know I could have bought the headers from summit for 500 ish, but I was ok with them marking them up a bit and charging me a reasonable price to get this done. Sure sounds like I have to talk to them about it. Another thing is that this included the collectors and removal of the old pipes from the mufflers, but still too much, Thanks

 
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Regarding the H-pipe, that should be a couple - three hundred dollars at best. I worked at a garage that did custom exhaust work and even as a complete newb bumble-f'ing up the first one completely on the bender, it only took me three hours on a Saturday morning to measure, form and weld the H-pipe for my first sportsroof back in '94. An experienced guy could knock it out in an hour or so, two hours max. Even at $100/hr, that's still what - $300 at most with materials and some clamps?

Sorry for the half rant - it really smokes me when I see people getting taken advantage of by mechanics.

 
Regarding the H-pipe, that should be a couple - three hundred dollars at best. I worked at a garage that did custom exhaust work and even as a complete newb bumble-f'ing up the first one completely on the bender, it only took me three hours on a Saturday morning to measure, form and weld the H-pipe for my first sportsroof back in '94. An experienced guy could knock it out in an hour or so, two hours max. Even at $100/hr, that's still what  - $300 at most with materials and some clamps?  

Sorry for the half rant - it really smokes me when I see people getting taken advantage of by mechanics.
Hey no problem Hemikiller, I really appreciate your response! I feel like I am getting screwed over on this.

 
Ok guys, here’s an update on this fn header install. As you can probably tell I’m not happy. Just talked to the owner and he won’t budge on this price. Boy what a bunch of crap! I am not very happy with this, but I should have asked for an estimate first. I definitely would have said no way!

I had some other stuff that the insurance should pay as well and he said they wouldn’t so he billed me. Now I have to call Hagerty tomorrow and tell them that they jerry rigged the ignition with some kind of bypass wire cause they couldn’t find exactly where the intermittent starting problem is. I am getting charged for 3.5 hours for diagnosing the problem. This is not going well.

And on top of this, my transmission won’t go or stay in park, like the parking pawl broke or something. I am really bummed, this was going pretty good but not sure about it anymore. Hopefully I will get some better news from the insurance company and they will cover all this stuff. It’s all from the accident. It seems the shop where my car is doesn’t feel like dealing with the insurance company anymore. I don’t know what to think except that I just want my damn car back now.

 
That's not good but hopefully it gets sorted out and you will have your vehicle back soon

I had a similar experience where I didn't get an estimate for my exhaust system and expected it would be about $1000 seeing as the headers were already installed and I supplied the mufflers they only had to make the pipes including a H pipe. Was a difficult job as it took them 8 hours($120 per hour) and I nearly fell on the floor once I got the bill for $1800. I had to pay it of course but must admit they did a very good job and it sounds great. Probably would have shopped around but being a difficult job to estimate just took a chance.

I wonder if your transmission was damaged from the accident? Hopefully just an adjustment needed and not a broken pawl.

 
That's not good but hopefully it gets sorted out and you will have your vehicle back soon

I had a similar experience where I didn't get an estimate for my exhaust system and expected it would be about $1000 seeing as the headers were already installed and I supplied the mufflers they only had to make the pipes including a H pipe. Was a difficult job as it took them 8 hours($120 per hour) and I nearly fell on the floor once I got the bill for $1800. I had to pay it of course but must admit they did a very good job and it sounds great. Probably would have shopped around but being a difficult job to estimate just took a chance.

I wonder if your transmission was damaged from the accident? Hopefully just an adjustment needed and not a broken pawl.
Wow, ya that’s a big shock when you get a bill that you way underestimated. That’s what I did.

My transmission was fine before the accident, never had any issues at all. They are saying that it is adjusted correct.

 
I know I'm responding three years after the fact with this post, but the transmission problem of not going into park has happened to me before. Specifically after I changed engine mounts. Since the shift handle is connected to the trans by a linkage rod, any shifting of engine height can put this adjustment out of whack. Is it possible, that when the shop removed the exh manifolds, they installed new motor mounts prior to installing the headers? Sure, this doesn"t always happen, but it can, and did with my car, so it's possible the "not going into park" issue is just an adjustment away.
 
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