Home defense -?

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cazsper

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A frimd of mine would like to purchase a firearm for home defense. She has never shot a gun before but wants to learn. She asked me what I thought. What wold be a good "starter" gun for home defense? Shotgun? Pistol? She has children so over penetration is a concern. I'm thinking a 20ga. With birdshot but would like some other opinions.. Thanks.

Mike

 
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I'd start with firearms training for her and go from there once she has an idea of her comfort and interest level in hand guns and long guns.

Many ranges will have a good selection of things for her to try once she has the basics down.

 

Luke

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^+1. Whatever you have its not effective if the first round is not on target.

 
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I disagree. I would submit that handguns are fine WITH proper training, education and precautions. Some individuals will be unsafe with a Nerf gun-you have to honestly assess the individual to know whether or not they can handle the responsibility.

If this individual can-then a shooting session with a handgun in a moderately powered chambering would be a good choice. Shotguns are unwieldy and hard to handle in a house. This is a time that either a pistol or a submachine gun excels. Since submachine guns aren't typically available affordable or reasonable for most beginners to use for home defense then look at a pistol.

Semi automatics are easier to load and reload, but usually require some hand strength to cycle the slide and some wrist strength to make functioning reliable.

Revolvers require more strength to pull the trigger, but are essentially idiot proof. It takes a long calculated trigger pull but there are usually no safeties to worry about. Revolvers are bulkier and harder to carry concealed and are slower to reload. In a house this isn't as big of a problem.

I believe a .38 special with premium defense ammo is a good defense round-not ideal, I'd like more power, but it is adequate and most people can learn to handle it.

I have a pair of 1911's in .45 locked in a quick access safe by my bed along with 4 extra magazines. But I have been shooting for over 30 years and am very comfortable as I shot competition with them for years.

It is a tough question. Each person needs to be treated a bit differently based upon his or her physical ability and mental attitude. Guns should be respected, not feared. They are tools and they are far from the most dangerous ones.

I don't let my kids anywhere near my radial arm saw, but will take them shooting anytime they like.

 

rocket366

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A dog with a BIG BARK works here!

Although I have a couple pistols I can get to easily

the thought of children in the house make firearms

perhaps not a good idea.

 
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I totally agree that guns can be safe with proper training and supervision. I own guns too so I am not an anti gun advocate or anything like that. I just read about the accidents that occur so much that could be totally prevented. Should of been more specific when I said kids, was thinking in the 3 to 6 yrs old range that accidently get a hold of them.

 

cazsper

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I know a firearm is not always the answer. I have already told her to check out a local range that rents a variety of firearms.. It's just that she is convinced a gun is the way to go. She used the fact that my brother and I both have home defense guns (but I served 20+ years in Air Force Securty Forces and hunt, and my brother is a cop).


I should have specified. Her youngest kid is 12.

 
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rocket366

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If my wife insisted on a self defence weapon I woul suggest a

double action PPK!

20hqzqs.jpg


Regards

Paul

 

1972MustangSVH

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Training, training, training... go to the range, get in the crowd, and learn. In the end , however, its mental preparedness and situational awareness that wins. A well trained scared-to-death person with a weapon is the worst scenario. Fear gives you tunnel vision, makes you perceive a situation your way and not the way it is. I love to shoot, I have no designs to shoot anyone, ever. A person whom feels the need to use a weapon for empowerment, often doesn't like to shoot, and has designs to shoot another person. With great power comes great responsibility. Perhaps some hand-to-hand skills would be a more correct thought. They're healthy, they obviously give you skills, and they can boost confidence.

Kids and guns... train them, it works. No one goes out and buy their kid a car, tosses them the keys when they get home and says, "There it is if you need it," do they? It would be unthinkable.

 
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It's absolutely true that children have accidents (as do adults) with firearms. The same is true of every potentially dangerous item. I think the "math" often forgets the number of people who successfully defend themselves with firearms. Those story don't rate coverage in with most news sources. Also, there is a belief that many times when a law abiding citizen is able to scare off a threat, the incident does not get reported. This skews the "math" away from the benefits of having an armed society. I remember reading that the official number of fireman death in the USA includes both attackers and defenders and legal use of deadly force by LEOs. The breakdown was about 50-50 between good guys and bad guys dead in the overall number about 20 years ago. To me that puts the math firmly in favor of owning a firearm for protection if one is of reasonable responsibility and take the time to learn and practice standard firearm safety. The case of the two year old killing his mother is tragic and very sad and probably preventable without removing concealed weapons form the equation. Carrying a pistol in a purse rather than a holster adds risk factors but they can be addressed.

The woman who saved her life and her significant other's in this story is someone my wife was acquainted with when we lived "up north". Add one for justice.

http://bearingarms.com/armed-woman-fires-robber-sends-fleeing-life/

I think safe gun ownership is a bit like owning a dog. You have recurring duties as long as the gun is part of your life. You should not get one and pack it away till it is needed. That type of ownership scares me.

 

Don65Stang

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Guns and children do mix well with training. My kids start shooting at age 6 and have their own guns starting with BB, then Ruger 1022s, then shotguns then pistols. By 8 they are dead on accurate. I offer a $10 completion in that they get $10 for each 4" clay they bust at 100yards. That's a different topic but they know how to safely handle guns and know EVERY gun is a loaded gun.

There is no such thing as a round that is safe and doesn't over penetrate. I recommend a Remington 870 20ga with 000buck. Don't keep one in the chamber. I also recommend a pistol as a secondary. The Walther PPK is a great choice. However, take a look at the Berea Thunder .380 which essentially is the same pistol design. I usually never recommend an odd brand copy but the Bersa has changed that for me. Look it up online and YouTube and you won't find anyone saying anything bad about one. You can also get one from the factory with Crimson Trace red laser. My wife has one and it is a really good shooter with hardly any kick. My 11 year old daughter says it is like getting a hand massage. A revolver is a fine choice but it will kick.

Here is a link for a guy that tests ammo and does a video of drywall tests with "safe" ammo. Other videos he tests which ammo is "best". Check out the final .380 ammo video.

http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCAWFWuY7JafjZNE_dG8BshA

[video=youtube]

 

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Interesting thread, here in AU home defence is about .000001% of a decision to purchase a firearm so I am always interested in responses from you guys around this topic. because of this I'am probably way off, I would of thought something like a select fire MP5 where allowed would make an excellent home defence weapon over and above most things, because of aimed 3 shot bursts. Shotguns are sort of good fail safe guns and the psychology behind 1 would be the biggest aid, but I have actually fired shotguns in a Kill house you need to aim pretty carefully as the spread of shot on most loads doesn't really come into effect at distances inside a home.

Training as mentioned before to my mind would be the greatest tool to take to the fight. Humans don't like to kill humans and all you guys that have been in the military and law enforcement would remember all your training to get into that mindset. I know of an indecent where a bloke was assaulted by some underworld thugs in his place of business he went for a knife over the shotgun under the counter such is the inbuilt nature of not wanting to kill another. Sort of backs the training and preparedness argument, My 2 cents on a very fascinating topic.

 
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Interesting thread, here in AU home defence is about .000001% of a decision to purchase a firearm so I am always interested in responses from you guys around this topic. because of this I'am probably way off, I would of thought something like a select fire MP5 where allowed would make an excellent home defence weapon over and above most things, because of aimed 3 shot bursts.
Going from memory. In the US anything that fires more than one round per trigger pull is a machine gun. Some states allow civilian ownership of machine guns but the Feds closed the doors in 1986 so it had to be registered prior to that cut off date in order to be a transferable weapon here. Added tax and licensing requirements in the places where it can be done.

There are ways of getting multiple rounds off like the Hellfire and Slide fire but I would not count on them for reliable defense in a house, out in a field against an angry mob.....:D

 

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45 ACP would actually be the least penetrating through drywall of pistol rounds. 5.56/.223 the least for rifle.

 

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Not to join the training discussion as I see it as a necessity, I would have her go 12 gauge pump action. Everybody knows the sound and even when dry cocked, it'll make someone piss their pants in the dark. .

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1972MustangSVH

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Not to join the training discussion as I see it as a necessity, I would have her go 12 gauge pump action. Everybody knows the sound and even when dry cocked, it'll make someone piss their pants in the dark. .
Yes and No, once a year when I was Correctional Officer the "normal" CO's had to qualify on the Mini14 and the 870. Invariable there was a significant percentage of them that had to be constantly reminded to jack the action for each round. It's one of those things that takes practice. As cool as they sound if you can't load another round the resounding silence on the next trigger pull might be the last thing you hear.

By "normal" I mean the ones that turn up once a year to grudgingly qualify to fill in the blanks on a piece of paper. I am a shooter and was on the states E-squad and we practiced fire arm training liberally. Hmmm, I guess that made me abnormal... anyway... LOL

 

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Not to join the training discussion as I see it as a necessity, I would have her go 12 gauge pump action. Everybody knows the sound and even when dry cocked, it'll make someone piss their pants in the dark. .
Yes and No, once a year when I was Correctional Officer the "normal" CO's had to qualify on the Mini14 and the 870. Invariable there was a significant percentage of them that had to be constantly reminded to jack the action for each round. It's one of those things that takes practice. As cool as they sound if you can't load another round the resounding silence on the next trigger pull might be the last thing you hear.

By "normal" I mean the ones that turn up once a year to grudgingly qualify to fill in the blanks on a piece of paper. I am a shooter and was on the states E-squad and we practiced fire arm training liberally. Hmmm, I guess that made me abnormal... anyway... LOL
Yes people do forget to rack em same reason a single action revolver would be the last choice too. Also I guess ammo control, swap mags before you hear the deadman's click. Decisive action and a cool head is a winning combo

 
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Few of the single mothers I am acquainted with would be willing to spend a few hours, over the period of a couple weeks, at the firing range to become familiar (nothing close to proficient) with a handgun. I suggest a 20 gauge short barrel with bird shot. Few burglars will continue to try to steal stuff/attack someone after hit in the upper torso/head with even a near shot.

It takes little training to be able to do that.

My 2 cents.

 
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