Missing options on Marti Report

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Joined
Jan 8, 2023
Messages
51
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Location
West Kelowna
My Car
1972 Mach1
I’ve long wondered about some options that are on my car that don’t show up on the Marti Report and I’m wondering if anybody has some insight. My car has power windows, tilt steering, rimblow steering wheel, and Select Air air conditioning. None of these options show up on my Marti report. Does that seem strange or typical?
 
The car has been in my family since the mid-80s and I know it hasn’t been touched in that timeframe. It’s not impossible that it was done previously but I’d be very surprised if somebody added something like power windows.
 
The most difficult of those to add would be the AC system. The firewall is stamped differently and it won't have the cup for the base HVAC system, There will be no vent hat on the driver's side of the cowl. Pull the screen off the cowl on the DS and take a look. If you can look behind the PS splash guard, you'll be able to see if the blower motor cup is or isn't present, or a patch is apparent. If it's not, than the car came with AC and with this many option discrepancies, I'd lean towards two possibilities - VIN swap or the car was clipped. Clipping was a very common practice back in the day and your car may have ended up with the front section of a very highly optioned car, and they decided to keep all the extras. If you pull the carpet back along the rockers, you might be able to see a weld the goes laterally from rocker to rocker.

A VIN swap is also a possibility. At that point, you need to decide if you keep looking, or just let it be as it's been for 40-ish years.

1684718632761.png1684718672380.png
 
The most difficult of those to add would be the AC system. The firewall is stamped differently and it won't have the cup for the base HVAC system, There will be no vent hat on the driver's side of the cowl. Pull the screen off the cowl on the DS and take a look. If you can look behind the PS splash guard, you'll be able to see if the blower motor cup is or isn't present, or a patch is apparent. If it's not, than the car came with AC and with this many option discrepancies, I'd lean towards two possibilities - VIN swap or the car was clipped. Clipping was a very common practice back in the day and your car may have ended up with the front section of a very highly optioned car, and they decided to keep all the extras. If you pull the carpet back along the rockers, you might be able to see a weld the goes laterally from rocker to rocker.

A VIN swap is also a possibility. At that point, you need to decide if you keep looking, or just let it be as it's been for 40-ish years.

View attachment 77026View attachment 77027
 
Thanks for that great info, I’ll take a look tomorrow. The vin on the dash pad and the door jam both match and they are consistent with other details on the Marti report so I doubt it was a Vin swap.
 
Hello Randy,
There have been rare occasions where an option was omitted for lack of documentation or verifiable production info. There also were some instances of an option listed on the Marti report that wasn't production installed or available on that particular vehicle. I've not seen one where several options, including some major ones, were not listed.

Agree with Bentworker. With that many options on your Mustang but missing on your Marti report, I would start performing some serious Vin verification. Many options are easy to duplicate, either DIY or dealer install. While not impossible to do, power windows or the production-installed select air AC is not for the faint of heart. As Hemikiller posted, there are many significant differences between A/C and non-A/C vehicles, and front clipping was a common practice in the '60s, '70s, and 80s. Something I never particularly cared for but was something I witnessed in our body shop and many others in those years.

The easiest and the most often accidentally changed VIN is when a salvage yard padded dash is installed. The metal plate in front of the padded dash contains the riveted VIN tag. Many were inadvertently changed when installing a salvage yard padded dash and not swapping the VIN plates.
The already mentioned Fender apron partial VIN stampings and the driver door certification label are two more sources. However, driver door swaps sourced from a salvage yard are another chance for an incorrect VIN. Since you said the dash and door VINs match, I would try the Fender apron partial stamping next.
In an earlier post, you mentioned an engine swap to a '70 M code, so checking for a partial VIN stamping on the block is out. And...if you are part contortionist, there is a partial vin stamping on the rear of the transmission you could check. The C6 has a flat pad on the top side of the main housing right where the tail shaft housing bolts to it. In your case, if original, it would have a "2F-XXXXXX" 2=model year, F= assembly plant, Dearborn, and the remaining numbers, hopefully, would be the correct consecutive serial number for your vehicle.

Fingers crossed!
1684724810007.png
 
I have found variances with Marti reports, for some odd reason, it mainly deals with the addition of the bumperettes (front and rear) that is listed on the Marti but no evidence of ever being installed on the car at the factory and the factory invoice (L. Eminger) does not show it as being an option... I reached out to K. Marti, but he never responded. I prefer the former Lois Eminger Factory invoice (now owned and distributed by Marti after her passing). Of course, the best is the build sheet for the car if you can locate in readable condition.
 
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I’ve long wondered about some options that are on my car that don’t show up on the Marti Report and I’m wondering if anybody has some insight. My car has power windows, tilt steering, rimblow steering wheel, and Select Air air conditioning. None of these options show up on my Marti report. Does that seem strange or typical?

Round about 17-18 years ago I sold my 1973 Q-code Mach 1 that I had purchased from my close friend, who in-turn had purchased it from his brother.

I had the Marti Report and the original window sticker to the car, and they matched exactly (Marti Reports are 100% locked-in, it's Ford's actual production data). And it was a loaded-up Pewter Mach, power windows, a/c, rear defrost, rim-blow, power steering and brakes, deluxe Ginger interior with console (even had the correct NOS striped comfortweave)..

But it went on from there... 4-way power driver's seat, power-release decklid (button in glove box), and ram-air.

Those last three niceties were added by my friend's brother during restoration, wishing to load it up with every possible option and accessory he could get his hands on. I daily drove this car for several years, and it made for a helluva nice DD, modern stereo and everything you'd want/need. He got the power seat frame/wiring from a junkyard Cougar, and I'm pretty sure the ram-air setup and power trunk setup also came out of an early-80's junkyard (back when there was actually stuff still attached to cars! LOL)...

So long story short, it's common for past owners to load-up their Mustang with options that they wanted and wished they had, but that didn't come with the car from the factory.
 
Hello Randy,
There have been rare occasions where an option was omitted for lack of documentation or verifiable production info. There also were some instances of an option listed on the Marti report that wasn't production installed or available on that particular vehicle. I've not seen one where several options, including some major ones, were not listed.

Agree with Bentworker. With that many options on your Mustang but missing on your Marti report, I would start performing some serious Vin verification. Many options are easy to duplicate, either DIY or dealer install. While not impossible to do, power windows or the production-installed select air AC is not for the faint of heart. As Hemikiller posted, there are many significant differences between A/C and non-A/C vehicles, and front clipping was a common practice in the '60s, '70s, and 80s. Something I never particularly cared for but was something I witnessed in our body shop and many others in those years.

The easiest and the most often accidentally changed VIN is when a salvage yard padded dash is installed. The metal plate in front of the padded dash contains the riveted VIN tag. Many were inadvertently changed when installing a salvage yard padded dash and not swapping the VIN plates.
The already mentioned Fender apron partial VIN stampings and the driver door certification label are two more sources. However, driver door swaps sourced from a salvage yard are another chance for an incorrect VIN. Since you said the dash and door VINs match, I would try the Fender apron partial stamping next.
In an earlier post, you mentioned an engine swap to a '70 M code, so checking for a partial VIN stamping on the block is out. And...if you are part contortionist, there is a partial vin stamping on the rear of the transmission you could check. The C6 has a flat pad on the top side of the main housing right where the tail shaft housing bolts to it. In your case, if original, it would have a "2F-XXXXXX" 2=model year, F= assembly plant, Dearborn, and the remaining numbers, hopefully, would be the correct consecutive serial number for your vehicle.

Fingers crossed!
View attachment 77030
So based on the firewall photos that hemikiller added yesterday, it appears that my firewall is a non ac version. So I suppose the ac was either added by the dealer or an early owner.
I’ve never actually heard of the clipping that was mentioned. I checked under the carpet in the rocker panel area and I don’t see any signs of a weld going across the car so at this point that seems unlikely.
The transmission in the car is a C6 and according to the Marti Report and everything I know about the car indicates that the car came with an FMX, so therefore I can’t verify VIN numbers on that.
From what I can tell for the most part, the VIN info looks fairly accurate, the VIN on the dash and the door jam match and the orange decal under the hood on the passenger side seems to show the correct 2V Cleveland option that matches the VIN. Also it is accurate for other options on the car, axle ratio, rear window defrost, interior color and exterior color and there is no sign of their ever being a colour change on the car.
I am aware of the VIN info on the fender skirt, but I’m trying to avoid having to pull that off to verify. I’ve also tried locating the build sheet, but without success. I’ve also heard that Deerborn built cars may not have had the build sheet left in the car. Where is the most common place to find the build sheet in these cars?
 
I have several cars and have faith in the Lois Eminger build sheets and I have never seen any discrepancies with my cars but I have seen occasions where the Marti report does not exactly match the build sheet or what was actually installed on the vehicle. I believe the Marti Report is an excellent baseline but in my opinion I would not say it's fool proof. My thought is that Louis"s info. was the actual build of the car and maybe the Marti report is what was scheduled to be built???
 
The "Eminger" report, in actuality, is a Ford to Dealer invoice, an original Ford document. It is one of the most accurate reports to have on your vehicle. If a feature or option is not listed on the Ford Invoice (Eminger report), it didn't leave the factory with it.
So, as nice as the Marti report is, it is a compilation of what Marti's staff interprets from the invoices on the vehicle. So sometimes, the terminology and what they list in the feature section differ from what is on the Ford invoice. And.... I'm not slamming Marti; I have a small fortune in Marti reports on my vehicles.

I mistakenly thought your car was originally a Q code and was replaced with a '70 M code engine. So if your Mach1 were originally an H code, then the FMX would be correct. So yeah, using the VIN on the engine and trans are out!
The A/C Non-A/C firewall pictures posted by Hemikiller were great info from him, as usual. You would definitely have to be a self-punisher to attempt to duplicate factory air. There is a good reason Ford calls it "Integral" AC! The Ford dealer installed air-used lower dashboard-mounted controls and outlets. It did not utilize the same dashboard vents as the heat and factory air use. It could also be a mix of aftermarket and Ford components.

Front clipping was a common practice in those days. Those were big sellers for the salvage yards. As I said, not something I was convinced was safe, at least not for me, as hard as I beat on my cars.

The build sheets were just an afterthought by the line workers. They could just as well absent-mindedly throw them in a trash can. They had codes on them that meant something to the line workers but little else to the dealer or buying customer. Little did they know how coveted these would be 50+ years later! They have been found under the carpet on the front and rear floorboards, under the rear seat area, and stuck into the seat frames on the front and rear seats. And as you mentioned, some were not in any cars. (Trash can ate those)!

There is one more option to possibly verify the VIN I hadn't mentioned earlier. There is a thin metal tag fastened to the front of the radiator support called a buck tag. The assembly plant body shop used it to assemble the body to ensure the proper pieces of sheet metal and metal fasteners were used. Different trim levels on the body styles, A/C-Non A/C, types of mirrors, single or dual exhaust, suspension packages, etc., all required different fasteners, holes, and metal panels in the body process. Most importantly, it has the complete vehicle Vin embossed on it. In '71, it was on the passenger side; for '72s, I've found them on both the passenger and driver sides. In '73, they were all on the driver's side.
Unfortunately, they were fragile and easily damaged. Many were thrown away along with damaged sheet metal if the vehicle was ever in a front-end collision. Many were damaged when caught on a mechanic's tools, air hose, or arm. Hopefully, this 50+-year-old piece is still on your car.
The illustration below shows a buck tag on a '73 Mach1 with the complete vin marked with the red rectangle. This is located on the radiator support behind the headlamp bucket. On your '72, it could be on either side.
Once again, fingers crossed! 🤞

1684810088532.png
 
Yep, thats what I was thinking. What's your buck tag say? That would have your VIN and list some of those options if the car was made with them.

If its not on the buck tag, then check for the vin in all the places listed. Under the fender, on the engine block, on the transmission, on the build sheet if you can find it under the carpet.

Some of those options would be pretty involved to add after the fact. Like power windows. Snaking wires throughout the car with the motors and whatnot.
 
The "Eminger" report, in actuality, is a Ford to Dealer invoice, an original Ford document. It is one of the most accurate reports to have on your vehicle. If a feature or option is not listed on the Ford Invoice (Eminger report), it didn't leave the factory with it.
So, as nice as the Marti report is, it is a compilation of what Marti's staff interprets from the invoices on the vehicle. So sometimes, the terminology and what they list in the feature section differ from what is on the Ford invoice. And.... I'm not slamming Marti; I have a small fortune in Marti reports on my vehicles.

I mistakenly thought your car was originally a Q code and was replaced with a '70 M code engine. So if your Mach1 were originally an H code, then the FMX would be correct. So yeah, using the VIN on the engine and trans are out!
The A/C Non-A/C firewall pictures posted by Hemikiller were great info from him, as usual. You would definitely have to be a self-punisher to attempt to duplicate factory air. There is a good reason Ford calls it "Integral" AC! The Ford dealer installed air-used lower dashboard-mounted controls and outlets. It did not utilize the same dashboard vents as the heat and factory air use. It could also be a mix of aftermarket and Ford components.

Front clipping was a common practice in those days. Those were big sellers for the salvage yards. As I said, not something I was convinced was safe, at least not for me, as hard as I beat on my cars.

The build sheets were just an afterthought by the line workers. They could just as well absent-mindedly throw them in a trash can. They had codes on them that meant something to the line workers but little else to the dealer or buying customer. Little did they know how coveted these would be 50+ years later! They have been found under the carpet on the front and rear floorboards, under the rear seat area, and stuck into the seat frames on the front and rear seats. And as you mentioned, some were not in any cars. (Trash can ate those)!

There is one more option to possibly verify the VIN I hadn't mentioned earlier. There is a thin metal tag fastened to the front of the radiator support called a buck tag. The assembly plant body shop used it to assemble the body to ensure the proper pieces of sheet metal and metal fasteners were used. Different trim levels on the body styles, A/C-Non A/C, types of mirrors, single or dual exhaust, suspension packages, etc., all required different fasteners, holes, and metal panels in the body process. Most importantly, it has the complete vehicle Vin embossed on it. In '71, it was on the passenger side; for '72s, I've found them on both the passenger and driver sides. In '73, they were all on the driver's side.
Unfortunately, they were fragile and easily damaged. Many were thrown away along with damaged sheet metal if the vehicle was ever in a front-end collision. Many were damaged when caught on a mechanic's tools, air hose, or arm. Hopefully, this 50+-year-old piece is still on your car.
The illustration below shows a buck tag on a '73 Mach1 with the complete vin marked with the red rectangle. This is located on the radiator support behind the headlamp bucket. On your '72, it could be on either side.
Once again, fingers crossed! 🤞

View attachment 77066
Thanks so much for all this great info. I took a quick look and unfortunately no buck tag that I can see. Perhaps I’ll end up pulling the fender at some point.
It’s not really that big of a deal considering I know the car is not a complete numbers matching car and I’m not looking to sell it anytime so I don’t care about proving originality. It’s just for my own curiosity that I’d love to know the complete history. The car has a huge amount of sentimental value to me so the more I know about it the better.
 
Thanks so much for all this great info. I took a quick look and unfortunately no buck tag that I can see. Perhaps I’ll end up pulling the fender at some point.
It’s not really that big of a deal considering I know the car is not a complete numbers matching car and I’m not looking to sell it anytime so I don’t care about proving originality. It’s just for my own curiosity that I’d love to know the complete history. The car has a huge amount of sentimental value to me so the more I know about it the better.
On all the 73 mustangs i've tried, i was able to see the partial vin under the fender without removing it. Go in through the driver's wheel well with a light and your phone. Snap a handful of puctures along that top lip. Its not a full vin, but the last 6 digits should match all your other ones.
 
So based on the firewall photos that hemikiller added yesterday, it appears that my firewall is a non ac version. So I suppose the ac was either added by the dealer or an early owner.
I’ve never actually heard of the clipping that was mentioned. I checked under the carpet in the rocker panel area and I don’t see any signs of a weld going across the car so at this point that seems unlikely.
The transmission in the car is a C6 and according to the Marti Report and everything I know about the car indicates that the car came with an FMX, so therefore I can’t verify VIN numbers on that.
From what I can tell for the most part, the VIN info looks fairly accurate, the VIN on the dash and the door jam match and the orange decal under the hood on the passenger side seems to show the correct 2V Cleveland option that matches the VIN. Also it is accurate for other options on the car, axle ratio, rear window defrost, interior color and exterior color and there is no sign of their ever being a colour change on the car.
I am aware of the VIN info on the fender skirt, but I’m trying to avoid having to pull that off to verify. I’ve also tried locating the build sheet, but without success. I’ve also heard that Deerborn built cars may not have had the build sheet left in the car. Where is the most common place to find the build sheet in these cars?
My build sheet was under the drivers side carpet. Your drivers door with data plate could have came from the same car the dash VIN came from. Look at the build date and see if the dates on all the sheet metal fall within a week or two of the date the car was produced. Pulling the fender is the best option to verify the VIN. IMG_8053.pngIMG_8054.png
 
The "Eminger" report, in actuality, is a Ford to Dealer invoice, an original Ford document. It is one of the most accurate reports to have on your vehicle. If a feature or option is not listed on the Ford Invoice (Eminger report), it didn't leave the factory with it.
So, as nice as the Marti report is, it is a compilation of what Marti's staff interprets from the invoices on the vehicle. So sometimes, the terminology and what they list in the feature section differ from what is on the Ford invoice. And.... I'm not slamming Marti; I have a small fortune in Marti reports on my vehicles.

I mistakenly thought your car was originally a Q code and was replaced with a '70 M code engine. So if your Mach1 were originally an H code, then the FMX would be correct. So yeah, using the VIN on the engine and trans are out!
The A/C Non-A/C firewall pictures posted by Hemikiller were great info from him, as usual. You would definitely have to be a self-punisher to attempt to duplicate factory air. There is a good reason Ford calls it "Integral" AC! The Ford dealer installed air-used lower dashboard-mounted controls and outlets. It did not utilize the same dashboard vents as the heat and factory air use. It could also be a mix of aftermarket and Ford components.

Front clipping was a common practice in those days. Those were big sellers for the salvage yards. As I said, not something I was convinced was safe, at least not for me, as hard as I beat on my cars.

The build sheets were just an afterthought by the line workers. They could just as well absent-mindedly throw them in a trash can. They had codes on them that meant something to the line workers but little else to the dealer or buying customer. Little did they know how coveted these would be 50+ years later! They have been found under the carpet on the front and rear floorboards, under the rear seat area, and stuck into the seat frames on the front and rear seats. And as you mentioned, some were not in any cars. (Trash can ate those)!

There is one more option to possibly verify the VIN I hadn't mentioned earlier. There is a thin metal tag fastened to the front of the radiator support called a buck tag. The assembly plant body shop used it to assemble the body to ensure the proper pieces of sheet metal and metal fasteners were used. Different trim levels on the body styles, A/C-Non A/C, types of mirrors, single or dual exhaust, suspension packages, etc., all required different fasteners, holes, and metal panels in the body process. Most importantly, it has the complete vehicle Vin embossed on it. In '71, it was on the passenger side; for '72s, I've found them on both the passenger and driver sides. In '73, they were all on the driver's side.
Unfortunately, they were fragile and easily damaged. Many were thrown away along with damaged sheet metal if the vehicle was ever in a front-end collision. Many were damaged when caught on a mechanic's tools, air hose, or arm. Hopefully, this 50+-year-old piece is still on your car.
The illustration below shows a buck tag on a '73 Mach1 with the complete vin marked with the red rectangle. This is located on the radiator support behind the headlamp bucket. On your '72, it could be on either side.
Once again, fingers crossed! 🤞

View attachment 77066

Lois Eminger was a very close friend of my father's, dating back to the early-60's when the CTCI was in its infancy. Lois was a legal secretary at Ford, and she was one of the early members of the Classic Thunderbird Club International as was my dad (member #6). Pops helped Lois save all of the 55-57 Thunderbird factory invoices, and soon after that was done, encouraged her to do the same with the Mustang invoices. At first she balked, because we're talking about tons and tons of paper that needed to be safely kept in dry storage, which had to be rented. By the time Lois finally agreed it needed to happen, the 1965-1966 invoices were "toast".

Anyhow, all of the invoices that Lois DID save, we (NPD) eventually took care of the storage for her in 1983 when we opened our Livonia MI warehouse. We stored the invoices for many years, until Lois sold them to Kevin Marti, and we delivered them to Kevin with our own semi truck.

It is my understanding that Kevin has what was Ford's actual computer database on the cars, and a Marti Report has absolutely nothing to do with "interpretation" of the invoices. The invoices were computer generated from a Ford database, and Kevin's Marti Reports are generated from a Ford database, so it's a bit puzzling how one wouldn't match the other. I can understand potentially different terminology and detailed descriptions between databases, but I can't understand actual options being missed or deleted.

Not saying you haven't tangibly observed this in the past, I'm just saying it's pretty darned strange, because Kevin's data is as pure and un-dorked-with as the invoices are. Straight from Ford, no editorial license being applied.
 
Lois Eminger was a very close friend of my father's, dating back to the early-60's when the CTCI was in its infancy. Lois was a legal secretary at Ford, and she was one of the early members of the Classic Thunderbird Club International as was my dad (member #6). Pops helped Lois save all of the 55-57 Thunderbird factory invoices, and soon after that was done, encouraged her to do the same with the Mustang invoices. At first she balked, because we're talking about tons and tons of paper that needed to be safely kept in dry storage, which had to be rented. By the time Lois finally agreed it needed to happen, the 1965-1966 invoices were "toast".

Anyhow, all of the invoices that Lois DID save, we (NPD) eventually took care of the storage for her in 1983 when we opened our Livonia MI warehouse. We stored the invoices for many years, until Lois sold them to Kevin Marti, and we delivered them to Kevin with our own semi truck.

It is my understanding that Kevin has what was Ford's actual computer database on the cars, and a Marti Report has absolutely nothing to do with "interpretation" of the invoices. The invoices were computer generated from a Ford database, and Kevin's Marti Reports are generated from a Ford database, so it's a bit puzzling how one wouldn't match the other. I can understand potentially different terminology and detailed descriptions between databases, but I can't understand actual options being missed or deleted.

Not saying you haven't tangibly observed this in the past, I'm just saying it's pretty darned strange, because Kevin's data is as pure and un-dorked-with as the invoices are. Straight from Ford, no editorial license being applied.
Lois and your family are heroes in my eyes for saving those docs and information
 
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