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Hemikiller

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In one of Scott’s (Qcode351) Saturday morning garage videos, he found a VIN stamped on the inside upper portion of his firewall. His was a 72 - I’m not certain if this location would apply across all years but it would not surprise me if there are additional hidden stamping in addition to the apron ones.

Link to the post and video - hope this works


That's not a partial VIN, it's a panel identification stamping. I screenshotted the video and it's pretty clear that it says "D1ZB65", which means it's a 71-up Mustang panel, for hardtop and in this case, sportsroof. The convertible firewall is different and would be stamped D1ZB76.

1642771523898.png

You'll find these stampings all over every car. Here's some stamps from a 71 sportsroof I own.

1642771556795.png


1642771574518.png
 

Greg

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I have a 71 Mach 1 grabber blue and white, a 73 Mach 1 Copper and White with power sunroof and a 73 Convertible all loaded
There is supposed to be a vin underneath somewhere. A 71 Boss I had 40 years ago had to be verified by the highway patrol because it was from out of state. Would need to have your original panels underneath which sounds like you do. Also a 68 Shelby of mine had one underneath. I believe somewhere near the transmission and firewall, but really don't know for sure. I was always led to believe this was privileged info. I am concerned this is an actual stolen Boss vehicle. A Yellow competition suspension car should have a better serial number than the one on the dash so why erase that. Never understood the logic attaching the number to a dash part. I hope you get good news whatever the outcome. Good Luck
 
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I had a 1971 Cuda that I bought from a classic car dealer in Michigan back in 1995. The idiot dealer wrote the vin number incorrectly when issuing the title and the state issued me a title with one additional number in it. Moved to Florida in 1998, and when I went to register it, because I had put the car up for sale, Florida immediately told me it was an incorrect vin number. I contacted the dealer in MI and they told me to send them the title and they would fix it. Well a guy showed up to buy the car and he wanted it now, said he would deal with the title. Sold the guy the car, and he went to the DMV, and they sent him to the police to check the vin's on the car. Well, they found out that the car had 3 different vin numbers, none stolen thankfully, but none the less it had 3 vin numbers. The police said that the car was a 1970 and not a 1971. They ended up issuing the guy a state vin number.

Back in the 1990's when people were restoring these cars, there were no replacement body panels, like we have today. So, if you needed sheet metal, you just went to a junkyard and cut off what you needed and welded it onto your car. Apparently, when this car was restored, they cut pieces off the front of one Cuda, and the rear of another and welded them to this car. So, one of the hidden vin numbers in the front was from one car, the one from the rear was from another car and the dash was from a third car... So, it does not have to be a stolen car, pieces could have come from multiple cars.

Only hidden vin numbers in Mustangs that I am aware of are the ones under the fenders, and those can easily have been removed or altered. How many cars have you seen that the fender aprons have been replaced on? A lot, and I can assure you those vin numbers were never put back on.

These old cars were so easy to steal and change vin number on that it is a joke. You will still see people selling titles with the dash vin on eBay all the time for rare cars.
 
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I had a 1971 Cuda that I bought from a classic car dealer in Michigan back in 1995. The idiot dealer wrote the vin number incorrectly when issuing the title and the state issued me a title with one additional number in it. Moved to Florida in 1998, and when I went to register it, because I had put the car up for sale, Florida immediately told me it was an incorrect vin number. I contacted the dealer in MI and they told me to send them the title and they would fix it. Well a guy showed up to buy the car and he wanted it now, said he would deal with the title. Sold the guy the car, and he went to the DMV, and they sent him to the police to check the vin's on the car. Well, they found out that the car had 3 different vin numbers, none stolen thankfully, but none the less it had 3 vin numbers. The police said that the car was a 1970 and not a 1971. They ended up issuing the guy a state vin number.

Back in the 1990's when people were restoring these cars, there were no replacement body panels, like we have today. So, if you needed sheet metal, you just went to a junkyard and cut off what you needed and welded it onto your car. Apparently, when this car was restored, they cut pieces off the front of one Cuda, and the rear of another and welded them to this car. So, one of the hidden vin numbers in the front was from one car, the one from the rear was from another car and the dash was from a third car... So, it does not have to be a stolen car, pieces could have come from multiple cars.

Only hidden vin numbers in Mustangs that I am aware of are the ones under the fenders, and those can easily have been removed or altered. How many cars have you seen that the fender aprons have been replaced on? A lot, and I can assure you those vin numbers were never put back on.

These old cars were so easy to steal and change vin number on that it is a joke. You will still see people selling titles with the dash vin on eBay all the time for rare cars.
Interesting story.
 

Hemikiller

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In over thirty years of owning, restoring and parting out dozens of 71-73 cars, I have *never* seen a stamped VIN on the chassis anywhere but on the tops of the outer shock tower flanges. I've heard lots of stories and second/third/fourth hand info, but never seen a photo or an actual example of this mysterious "hidden VIN" on any 65-73 Mustang.

As far as the OP's car, it wouldn't surprise me if the dash was swapped either accidentally, or in what we used to call a "screwdriver registration". Some guys I knew decided it was much easier to swap the dash panel VIN over to their next car and change the color on the registration, than deal with the DMV.
 
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I ordered a Marti report for my 2f05h . The only vin number on the car is the dash. The previous owner bought it as a Boss 351 clone 22 years ago in Kentucky. The marti report says it's green , fmx auto, ginger interior no fold down back seat , regular shocks. Mine is grabber yellow ( I had the whole interior out and it's definitely original ) 4 speed, fold down back seat, staggered rear shocks deluxe black interior......... Whomever did the "cloning" did a perfect job. Thoughts?????
Nice car. Seems to me someone along the line restored/cloned it to their liking.
 

tcasey513

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update... after going through the whole car this winter, I'm convinced I have an original Boss-351 body. The engine , interior and dash (with vin ), and title came from a donor car. Someone must have stripped the original Boss drivetrain over 20 years ago. The person I bought it from owned it for 22 years and used it as a drag car only. Thoughts?
 

Doug's 73 Mach1

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The 4 speed top loader normally also has a partial VIN stamped on it. I believe it is on the top flange that joins to the bell housing. On numbers matching cars, all the various partial VINs should match, Engine, trans, chassis. Was there a built sheet under the "original" carpet when you took the interior apart? That too has the VIN.
 

Hemikiller

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update... after going through the whole car this winter, I'm convinced I have an original Boss-351 body. The engine , interior and dash (with vin ), and title came from a donor car. Someone must have stripped the original Boss drivetrain over 20 years ago. The person I bought it from owned it for 22 years and used it as a drag car only. Thoughts?

Did you locate the partial VIN stamps on the outer shock towers? To be honest, there would be no difference in the "body" of a Boss 351 vs a non A/C M-code sportsroof. Both would have staggered shocks. Both would have the reinforcements for the rear sway bar.

fender_VIN.JPG
 
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Part of the issue with your car is that it was a drag car, a lot of drag cars have no vin numbers as the cars are not registered and they are not run on public roads. Don't look too deep into this, it is not worth it for you. If the hidden vin numbers are no longer there, for whatever reason, and all you have is the vin on the dash, then the car is whatever that dash vin says it is, and don't worry about it. If you have a clean title with that vin number, then you are good to go. Remember that if that car somehow comes up as stolen or a swapped vin car YOU will end up paying the price. They will not charge you with having stolen anything or anything like that, but if it was stolen you will certainly loose the car with no recourse, if you bought it in the last 3-5 years you might be able to go to the previous owner, but they probably bought it like that too, so they have no liability, and after the 3-5 year period in most states you hit the statue of limitations. The only "good" thing that could happen, if the car was not actually stolen, but just had a vin swap is that the state could let you keep the car and issue you a state issued vin, which will kill the value of the car. I know that you are probably just curious about the history of the car, but it is not in your best interests to air it out in a public forum.
There are a million possibilities to how this ended up being, and not all of them involved a stolen Boss. That car may have been parted out for whatever reason and bought as a shell, maybe it was a former stolen car that was stripped and it was bought from a previous owner or an insurance company, and converted to a race car. There probably was no title or dash with the car. After it was used for decades in racing, someone decided to put it back on the street, they had clean title with a dash, and just put it on that car to sell it.
I don't know if you have heard of these cases, but there are cases in which the same car shows up with the same vin in 2 different places. At some point a valuable car is either discarded or sold for parts as it is either too rusty or damaged to be put back on the street, but the owner keeps the dash with vin number and title. The title and vin number are sold and someone uses it to create a clone of the original valuable car. In the meantime the actual body is bought by someone who decides to fix it as they find the hidden vin numbers and decide that it is a valuable car. When the body is all fixed up, they go to the local DMV and have an inspection done on the car, and since the hidden vin are there they are issued a title with the original vin numbers. And now you end up with a mess, as there are 2 cars with the same vin numbers.
 
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giantpune

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I can think of a few reasons why the vin would be ground off.

First is what everybody else is thinking. Somebody stole a car, swapped the dash to get a new VIN, and removed the buck tag and ground off the partial VIN under the fender.

I could also see the car needed repairs. If it was wrecked or rusted and somebody welded in a new inner fender from a different car and ground off the VIN from the donor part. Is there any signs that the inner fender is not original to the car?
 

Greg

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I have a 71 Mach 1 grabber blue and white, a 73 Mach 1 Copper and White with power sunroof and a 73 Convertible all loaded
Probably a long shot, but does Marti have databases on all yellow Bosses made and how many are still around? Any chance finding that elusive number if it hasn't been ground also and doing an anonymous check for theft or if possible? Does this seem to be a Frankenstein car with all different date codes everywhere, if not you might be able to narrow down the build date to a window. I would try to inventory what is original to the car and what has been replaced I think this last owner knows more since it wasn't used on the street. Can you find out the last time the green car was registered and do a previous history search? Might be telling. Does the last owner of the yellow car have a public record you can research? I'm guessing you have a real Boss....What ever you do be careful to protect your investment
 
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There are a lot of weird mismatches. Look at my stamp under the fender. On both sides the serial number matches but according to the stamp this car would have been from 1974 which we know is impossible. It should be 1T instead of 4T. Probably someone had too much to drink that day and a few of these cars are out there with the wrong year.

20171002-233052 (VIN fender right).jpg
 

Hemikiller

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There are a lot of weird mismatches. Look at my stamp under the fender. On both sides the serial number matches but according to the stamp this car would have been from 1974 which we know is impossible. It should be 1T instead of 4T. Probably someone had too much to drink that day and a few of these cars are out there with the wrong year.

Very common for Metuchen cars to be stamped with an incorrect year, to the point I think it was intentional, or used as an identifier for the employee. I had one 71 that was "0T", another that was "4T" like yours.
 
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Very common for Metuchen cars to be stamped with an incorrect year, to the point I think it was intentional, or used as an identifier for the employee. I had one 71 that was "0T", another that was "4T" like yours.
Crazy. It will be interesting to hear the stories from those guys that worked the line.
 
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