Should I get a new Timing set?

MKSpeedlab

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Well while I have the engine out of the car I have been installing some of the parts that I have had sitting on my shelf for a bit. Its a 351C and I finally put the custom grind roller cam in, and when I installed the timing set it seems like the cam and crank gears arent perfectly in line. The crank gear seems to be closer to the block. Its the Edelbrock 7821 timing set for a 351C but I was wondering if this is ok or if i need to do something to get them lined up better. I looked online at summit and some timing sets look like they come with a bushing. Should I be ordering a different timing set? And if so, which one should I be getting. I have looked a bit at the Tmeyer site and they have a bunch to choose from, and same with Summit. 

 
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Don C

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Place a straight edge across the cam gear and see how far off it is at the crank gear. If the crank gear is closer to the block it will continuously pull the cam gear against the thrust bearing, as well as cause side loads on the links.

Did you check the crankshaft and camshaft free end play? 

 
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MKSpeedlab

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No I havent, I dont have a dial indicator and had never used one before when doing a cam change. Everything else about the short block is original and has never been touched. Only thing I was doing it putting in the new cam. 

 

Don C

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Did it come with a new thrust washer? Make sure the camshaft has a little movement fore and aft. You don't want it to be tight, needs a little gap (0.001" to 0.006")

 

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No it didnt, Ill see if I can figure things out and measure it. I also emailed edelbrock to see what they say. 

 

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Place a straight edge across the cam gear and see how far off it is at the crank gear. If the crank gear is closer to the block it will continuously pull the cam gear against the thrust bearing, as well as cause side loads on the links.

Did you check the crankshaft and camshaft free end play? 
So I finally got some free time and went to the garage to measure. Its less difference than I had thought.(I guess just looking at it and trying to figure it out with your hand isnt the right way lol). But after putting a flat edge from one gear to the other, the crank gear is still closer to the block. With the best straight edge I could find that fit in the space, I measured and there is about 0.041" to maayyyybbe 0.0625". So Im kinda guessing that I had just over estimated the different when I eye balled it. I am still pondering getting a new set that has a bearing or bronze bushing for the cam gear. But I am guessing 1/16th of an inch isnt a massive worry.

 

Don C

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Did you check to make sure the camshaft has some free end play, and not jamming against something like the expansion plug at the rear of the block/camshaft?

If it isn't jammed against something, I wouldn't be too concerned with that amount of offset. I don't know of an alignment spec for the cam/crank.

 

MKSpeedlab

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Well I bit the bullet and ordered a Rollmaster timing set from Tmeyer. Looking at it I agree that it looks like a much nicer piece. @Hemikiller do you happen to have the part number for the pioneer thrust plate? I check Rock auto and they dont have anything for a cleveland. And Tmeyer only showed the Aeroflow ones and I dont love that company too too much. 

 

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So maybe this is a newbie question. But Im a little confused installing the new Rollmaster timing set. Looking at the pictures on Tmeyers site it makes sense how I would install it. But the timing set I have seems to me like it has the stamps for the adjustable keyways on the wrong side of the crank gear. The side of the gear that is flush(and Im fairly certain goes towards the engine) has the timing marks stamped on it, and the side with the little snout that faces the timing cover has no timing marks showing on it. Am I trying to install it backwards? Im confused now which side actually faces the front. I am assuming it should be like this pic, but the timing marks for the adjustable keyways are wrong then. 

And Im also now trying to see if I can track down the correct cam retainer plate for it since it came with recessed screws but the cam plate is flat and no tapered bolt holes. 

Capture.JPG

 

71ProjectJunk

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The side with the timing marks has to go to the outside, where you can see it, if not it would be impossible to time it. 

 

71ProjectJunk

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I keep thinking about this and now I am as confused as you are. To me the part with the snout should go towards the timing cover, but if the marks and numbers are on the other side of the crank gear, there would be no way to time it. Maybe someone that has used this timing set can chime in. 

 

71ProjectJunk

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I just found a video of a guy installing a Rollmaster timing chain on a 351 Cleveland, but his crank gear has the marks on the side that has the small snout. Can you put some photos of your timing gear set? Here is the video:



 

MKSpeedlab

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So after looking more, and some test fitting. Im pretty sure its the wrong timing set. Its supposed to be the CS3091, but when I put the crank gear on, the chain looks WAYYYYY too long. Like if you put the crank and cam gears both on, you likely need to take 1.5" out of the chain. The cam gear has Rollmaster on it, but doesnt show a part number. But needless to say, because I had to hone the crank gear a little to get it on the crank its likely garbage. The Edelbrock one looks like it will work find so I think Im just going to use that and call it a day. But here are a couple pics to show the crank gear stamped on the wrong side, and how long the chain is compared to the Edelbrock one that bolted on fine. 

20211128_154640.jpg

20211128_154610.jpg

 

MKSpeedlab

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So talked to TMeyer and it looks like Rollmaster packaged the wrong set in the box. He said the chain is the correct length, but the gears are both the wrong size. And to make it worse, the other 2 sets he has in stock from Rollmaster also have the wrong gears in the box. I just seem to be having no luck putting this thing back together lol. 

 
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