Starter Bolt Question

[Twins]

My starter is getting a bit "tired" and I was all set to tackle the problem this weekend with a new mini starter in hand. 

Had no issue removing the upper bolt but the lower was rounded and I made it worse.  I cannot get a vise grip to even grab on it now.  I have soaked it with PB Blaster now but not expecting miracles there. 

So, it looks like my option is drilling it out if I can get a drill in there.  Maybe an EZ out but I have heard that if one of those snap off in there I am in worse shape. 

I noticed that the threaded hole in the Bell housing goes all the way through.  Would it be easiest to drill from the backside (not mine - the bell housing) and then install a longer bolt with a nut on the end and be done with it or is that a no no?  I don't have a tap and die set but could get one but as a rookie using that I might make things worse.

Also, I was fortunate I started this job as I found the end of the cable attached to the starter is frayed, pulling out of the end housing, and corroded.  Someone had already tried to cover this with electrical tape. 

I ordered up a new set of wires and decided to go with the heavy duty as my car now has AC installed although it did not come that way.  Should I have just stuck with the standard gauge wires or is there no harm there is using the heaver wires? 

I may get some better performance out of the original starter in the car with a new wire down there as the condition of the original one is questionable at best.  I'll install that first when I get it just to see if that makes a difference but I think eventually I will need to tackle the starter.  The battery seems to check out and the starter will sometimes fire the car right up.  Other times, it sounds like its not getting enough juice or it will barely turn only to fire the car right up a moment later.

thanks,

Jeff

 

[delawarebill]

ok 2 placed to look, harbor freight and sears. i had an issue with locking lugs and no special socket. if i recall right the one at sears was the better of the 2. place it on the head and smack it to seat the reverse cuts inside the socket then with ratchet on socket remove bolt. u may need to nail it a few times to get to really seat good. but it worked for me.

 

[Twins]

ok 2 placed to look, harbor freight and sears. i had an issue with locking lugs and no special socket. if i recall right the one at sears was the better of the 2. place it on the head and smack it to seat the reverse cuts inside the socket then with ratchet on socket remove bolt. u may need to nail it a few times to get to really seat good. but it worked for me.

I had one of those grip tight sockets but it would not grab on to the rounded edges.  What you are talking about sounds more like something that bites into the head of the bolt?  Any idea what it is called if not an easy out?

 

[Twins]

ok 2 placed to look, harbor freight and sears. i had an issue with locking lugs and no special socket. if i recall right the one at sears was the better of the 2. place it on the head and smack it to seat the reverse cuts inside the socket then with ratchet on socket remove bolt. u may need to nail it a few times to get to really seat good. but it worked for me.

I had one of those grip tight sockets but it would not grab on to the rounded edges.  What you are talking about sounds more like something that bites into the head of the bolt?  Any idea what it is called if not an easy out?

Maybe something like this although it looks like this might rely on there being some edges to grab onto:

https://www.searspartsdirect.com/part-number/52061/0009/009.html?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=52061&sid=SPDxBING

 

[delawarebill]

ok 2 placed to look, harbor freight and sears. i had an issue with locking lugs and no special socket. if i recall right the one at sears was the better of the 2. place it on the head and smack it to seat the reverse cuts inside the socket then with ratchet on socket remove bolt. u may need to nail it a few times to get to really seat good. but it worked for me.

I had one of those grip tight sockets but it would not grab on to the rounded edges.  What you are talking about sounds more like something that bites into the head of the bolt?  Any idea what it is called if not an easy out?

i don't recall the name. but in sears in the socket section is where i got it.. it's a socket that looking inside has maybe 4 or 6 heavy spins that dig into the head of bolt. they have different sizes so u need to know that and when i say smack it i mean it.

 

[delawarebill]

sorry didn't see the socket post.. yes that is it.

 

[Twins]

sorry didn't see the socket post.. yes that is it.

Thanks Bill.  I'll try that first.  Its sucks that they closed a lot of the sears around here.  ACE hardware has picked up some of the Craftsman line and I have one in sight of my office.  I will see if they have anything there although their selection is a little limited.  I can always buy on line if I have to but like seeing the product when I can!

 

[Vinnie]

I wouldn't drill anything as long as it is sticking out. Can't you use a file to make 2 flat sides so that you can put a wrench on it?

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Starter bolts usually have a shorter head on them. Do you have a die grinder or small grinder you can grind the head off and once the starter of off work on the remaining bolt. If you do need to drill it is best from the back side the drill might even grab and screw the bolt out.

Yes and EZ out will probably not be a good choice. I worked in Tool & Die shop and we never had much luck if the bolt was seized would drill and re-tap hole.

I have used a pencil grinder and small carbide burr and actually ground a bigger plug out after drilling a hole in the middle. It was a plug in the oil galley of a flathead Ford engine block about 1/2" pipe plug. I slowly ground until I could see the threads and picked the pieces out with a scribe. Took hours but saved the block.

If you hit the bolt on the head sometimes that helps break the rust loose. Also heat it up with propane torch but be careful and have extinguisher handy. You can take a cold chisel and try getting the bolt to turn or just cut the head off.

 

[Twins]

I wouldn't drill anything as long as it is sticking out. Can't you use a file to make 2 flat sides so that you can put a wrench on it?

I think so.  I was wondering about that.  Was thinking about a dremel but the file seems more precise.  Going to need a small file.

 

[Twins]

Starter bolts usually have a shorter head on them. Do you have a die grinder or small grinder you can grind the head off and once the starter of off work on the remaining bolt. If you do need to drill it is best from the back side the drill might even grab and screw the bolt out.

Yes and EZ out will probably not be a good choice. I worked in Tool & Die shop and we never had much luck if the bolt was seized would drill and re-tap hole.

I have used a pencil grinder and small carbide burr and actually ground a bigger plug out after drilling a hole in the middle. It was a plug in the oil galley of a flathead Ford engine block about 1/2" pipe plug. I slowly ground until I could see the threads and picked the pieces out with a scribe. Took hours but saved the block.

If you hit the bolt on the head sometimes that helps break the rust loose. Also heat it up with propane torch but be careful and have extinguisher handy. You can take a cold chisel and try getting the bolt to turn or just cut the head off.

Thanks David.  I think I will avoid the EZ out.  I can grind the head off if it comes to that.  Good idea.  I can then take off the starter and work on the "stub" of the bolt as the other bolt comes out easily and I can slide it over the stub..  First, I might try the tool mentioned above and/or filing the roundness into two sides.  The PB Blaster might also be working its magic right now and maybe the bolt wont be so tough to move.  Will also whack it a few more times and use heat if it comes to that.

 

[Twins]

On the plus side, the whacks on the bolt/starter seems to have given the starter a little more life for now.......

(that's what also is making me think this starter is about to give up. It seems to respond well when the area is struck.)

 

[Fabrice]

These are bolted into the aluminum housing. As aluminum is softer, I would first ensure the starter motor is well aligned, then tap (hard) on it toward back of the car.

Just to get that little play before try turn it again.

If you have a welding machine, another option you could also try is to weld a bolt on it.

Cutting/grinding can always be done as last resource.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

If bumping the starter makes it work better you probably just need to replace the bearing in the end next to the Bendix or flywheel. It is a sleeve type oilite bearing and they use to sell them at the  parts house. What happens is the Bendix engages the starter ring gear and puts a side force on the armature and it grounds out on the windings in the outside of the motor. Brushes can also be worn or bad. So people just do not fool with doing it. When you get a rebuilt one it might only have a new bearing or Bendix they do not replace everything when they rebuild just the minimum.

 

[Don C]

+1 on not using an EZ out, I think the name refers to how you have to treat them, not on easy to remove a broken bolt. They have to be turned easy.

Leave the top bolt in and snugged down when you try to get the lower bolt out, to reduce the binding pressure on the lower bolt.

If the head is too far gone to get one of the bolt out sockets to work or to grind/file flats on, you might try cutting a slot in it with your Dremel to try a big flat blade screwdriver (with the top bolt in).

AutoZone has something similar

http://www.autozone.com/ratchets-sockets-and-wrenches/socket-set/duralast-8-pcs-grip-drive-socket-set/457943_0_0

 

[will e]

Leave the top bolt in and snugged down when you try to get the lower bolt out, to reduce the binding pressure on the lower bolt.

What Don said.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Filing two flats to fit a wrench would be my first attempt.

Welding a nut onto the end of the bolt through the center would be my second try.

Grinding the head off, removing the starter and dealing with the stub would be my third approach

Cutting the bolt flush with the bellhousing and drilling with increasingly larger size bits and finishing with a left hand bit would be my last option

IIRC one of the two starter bolts goes into the block plate (I know IRC cause I had to reweld the nut on mine as the PO of the plate had cut a corner and it would not tighten down) I think it is the lower one

 

[Twins]

I was thinking of making a slot don but wondered if the head would just split. Well the cutting sockets are on the way so that's first. I'll have an update in a few days. Thank you everyone. Anyone have any opinion on the heavier cable wires I ordered? (See original post)

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Heavier wire will be fine. Only drawback is that it is heavier.