Trying hard to not make this political

7173Mustangs.com

Help Support 7173Mustangs.com:

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
643
Reaction score
114
Location
Birmingham, AL
I am concerned that I have probably 20% of my net worth tied up in 1971 to 1973 Mustangs and parts and it's no secret that the current President wants to eliminate internal combustion engine cars like ours and replace them with electric vehicles. I'm having a huge problem getting sheet metal parts I need to restore my cars. Gasolene prices are through the roof, and that will push people towards electric cars. I'm having a hard time finding people to work on my cars. Shops are having a hard time hiring people. They would rather stay at home and collect free money from the government. The owner of a shop that was doing one of my cars just died of COVID (he did not get vaccinated but he should have because he was diabetic and already in poor health). He got $5,000 from me but only did $2,000 in work. Now I have to go down to his place, remove my car and parts, and take them somewhere else. Is there anyone else out there besides me that has concern how all this will affect our hobby?

 

midlife

Shorts checker
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Messages
4,168
Reaction score
595
Location
Tucson, AZ
My Car
No Mustangs at the moment.
A complete transition from ICE to electric vehicles will take 20+ years.  There is no push by politicians or anyone else for that matter to ban ICE vehicles that I am aware of.  There will still be a need for ICE vehicles for such things as long distance trucking.  ICE powered vehicles will still be desired by folks like us as collectables, and gas will still be available in the future.  Yes, gas may be more expensive, but no one is going to take your cars away from you and destroy them.  The best analogy I can think of is the transition to seat belts in vehicles: you can still drive non-seat belt manufactured vehicles: no one is forcing anyone to install seat belts in pre-1966 cars still out on the road. 

 

detritusmaximus

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
766
Reaction score
134
Location
US
My Car
1973 Grande #1 looong time ago
1970 Sportsroof #2 almost as long
1971 Sportsroof M-code #3 needs money
2008 GT #4 where the money went
I agree with midlife. No great government plot to force us all into electric vehicles...but it's pretty obvious where it's going. I would say the electrical/battery tech industry is driving the change more than government at this point because Musk and others are developing the tech faster than than anyone in government can react. Just like the Big Data sector.

I wouldn't lump the current inflation/gas prices/supply chain issues into the same topic. It will take a while to sort out the disruptions of the last two years, but we will.

In the end, I want selfdriving electric cars everywhere...so that idiots and bad drivers aren't a threat to me and my old cars!

 

MooseStang

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
256
Reaction score
96
Location
Texas
My Car
72 Q-code Vert
72 L-code Vert
I've been around the smell of gasoline my entire life. But, (get your stones ready) I have a crazy idea that my next project could be a 7172 with a Ford electric crate. Supposedly they are going to also offer controllers entire. In the future also.  I would only even think about doing this on car with no motor. Just a hairbrained idea. 

Stones away. 

 
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
8,233
Reaction score
969
Location
Springfield, OR
My Car
1971 Mustang Sportroof M code
No stones from me. I've been thinking the same thing, if all the bits and pieces (good quality) were available, and not outrageously priced I might go that way. Right now I have a bare 4-bolt block, 2 sets of heads (M code an Q code), and intake manifold. If I can find a machine shop that I feel comfortable with I'm going with a 408 stroker. So far, I haven't found that machine shop. 

I know that an electric powered vehicle can be pieced together. This one has intrigued me since I first saw it a couple of years ago:

Gallery (bloodshedmotors.com)

There are places that are selling conversion packages, but I would have to find out more about the quality. There is a startup British company that is trying to develop '60s Mustang electric vehicles, you can pre-order one for just £300,000  (close to $400,000):

CHARGE

 
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
898
Reaction score
167
Location
Minnesota
My Car
71 convertible
There are a bunch of Teslas on Copart now - parts for conversions are out there.  There are companies out there that can provide kits to put modern drivetrains and suspensions into old cars, it's just a matter of time before companies can do the same with electric vehicle leftovers.  I attend some international conferences for the auto industry now and then.  There are companies developing electromotive tech for the majors that are putting their stuff into current vehicles to demonstrate their capabilities.  I started a conversation with one of them about providing conversion kits for existing stock - they didn't say no and hinted that I should watch this space. 

Hot rodders are hot rodders.  Somebody somewhere is already trying to figure out how to make their Tesla go faster, or how to cram their Tesla into a (name your car here). 

 
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
643
Reaction score
114
Location
Birmingham, AL
No stones from me. I've been thinking the same thing, if all the bits and pieces (good quality) were available, and not outrageously priced I might go that way. Right now I have a bare 4-bolt block, 2 sets of heads (M code an Q code), and intake manifold. If I can find a machine shop that I feel comfortable with I'm going with a 408 stroker. So far, I haven't found that machine shop. 

I know that an electric powered vehicle can be pieced together. This one has intrigued me since I first saw it a couple of years ago:

Gallery (bloodshedmotors.com)

There are places that are selling conversion packages, but I would have to find out more about the quality. There is a startup British company that is trying to develop '60s Mustang electric vehicles, you can pre-order one for just £300,000  (close to $400,000):

CHARGE
Wow! $400,000?! I know that's a lot of work, but at the end of the day, that car will never handle or be as dependable as a new car designed that way from the start. I honestly can't see them selling any for over $70,000.

 

detritusmaximus

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
766
Reaction score
134
Location
US
My Car
1973 Grande #1 looong time ago
1970 Sportsroof #2 almost as long
1971 Sportsroof M-code #3 needs money
2008 GT #4 where the money went
Wow! $400,000?! I know that's a lot of work, but at the end of the day, that car will never handle or be as dependable as a new car designed that way from the start. I honestly can't see them selling any for over $70,000.
That one is a toy for rich people, for sure. Much like a Foose car, everything on it will be custom made for each customer. I doubt any two will be the same. Totally different than a modern, mass production vehicle with all the safety and engineering advances.

 
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
898
Reaction score
167
Location
Minnesota
My Car
71 convertible
... Totally different than a modern, mass production vehicle with all the safety and engineering advances.
You can say that about any old car!

I'm pretty excited about what is to come for ICE to electric conversions.  They can't help but accelerate, brake and corner better than the original configurations.  Best part is, you will be able to tune them with nothing more than a smartphone.  Want more brakes?  Turn up the regen braking knob.  Want faster acceleration?  Tweak the battery discharge rates.  Want better cornering?  Play with differential speed control from hub to hub.  Don't like the results?  Reset the car to its previous settings. 

 

detritusmaximus

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
766
Reaction score
134
Location
US
My Car
1973 Grande #1 looong time ago
1970 Sportsroof #2 almost as long
1971 Sportsroof M-code #3 needs money
2008 GT #4 where the money went
I think the biggest challenge will be battery packaging. The motor hardware will keep evolving in size, shape, and configuration. But batteries still take up a lot of room. Easy to allow for in a clean sheet design, not so easy in an existing chassis without reengineering.

 
Joined
Sep 12, 2015
Messages
6,157
Reaction score
1,133
Location
SW Ontario
My Car
1971 Mustang Mach 1, M code, 4 speed.
Ok....but how do you get the classic car exhaust rumble out of an electric motor?

im sure someone will find a way...but it’s that rumble that makes the classic car, in my opinion
........... it's called a recording and huge freakin speakers in the back!!!

 
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
8,233
Reaction score
969
Location
Springfield, OR
My Car
1971 Mustang Sportroof M code
Way, way back I had a '31 Model A pickup. I also had a battery powered tape recorder and a friend had a new GTO. I taped him accelerating, stuck a speaker box in the bed of the Model A, it was fun watching people look around for the hot car when I drove by in the Model A. 

With the modern technology, digital recording, much better speakers, etc., it shouldn't be too difficult to program up some recordings that would play based on throttle position, idle rumble, cruising, accelerating, and so on.  Something relatively inexpensive and easily programmable like PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers) might work.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
898
Reaction score
167
Location
Minnesota
My Car
71 convertible
There has been discussions at the regulatory level about making electric cars louder.  I can't remember exactly which vintage, but Lotus research made a test Esprit that used noise cancellation technology to make the passenger compartment quieter.  Somebody at Lotus went a step further and added soundtracks from various engine configurations (V8, V10, V12, Champcar, F1 - you get the picture) that was linked to the intensity of the Lotus engine noise being cancelled.  So if you wanted to know what your Esprit would sound like with an F1 V10 engine at 15k RPM, it was possible.  Easy enough to aim the speakers outside.

 

detritusmaximus

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
766
Reaction score
134
Location
US
My Car
1973 Grande #1 looong time ago
1970 Sportsroof #2 almost as long
1971 Sportsroof M-code #3 needs money
2008 GT #4 where the money went
That stuff is already happening in the modern cars. There are 'features' that make the car sound more muscular or sporty depending on your performance setting. The sound is played thru your speakers for you to hear.

In an electric car, I want it to sound like George Jetson's flying car as I drive past!

 

detritusmaximus

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
766
Reaction score
134
Location
US
My Car
1973 Grande #1 looong time ago
1970 Sportsroof #2 almost as long
1971 Sportsroof M-code #3 needs money
2008 GT #4 where the money went
Ok....but how do you get the classic car exhaust rumble out of an electric motor?
I missed the most obvious response...you mean the 3000rpm drone of cheap mufflers that gives me a headache?

 
Joined
Sep 12, 2015
Messages
6,157
Reaction score
1,133
Location
SW Ontario
My Car
1971 Mustang Mach 1, M code, 4 speed.
I missed the most obvious response...you mean the 3000rpm drone of cheap mufflers that gives me a headache?
Ah, that would be Flowmaster 40's I assume. Mine gave me a headache between 2500-3000, so now I have Flowmaster FX, some drone, no headache.

 
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
866
Reaction score
618
Location
East Texas
My Car
1971 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351 4 speed
I am concerned that I have probably 20% of my net worth tied up in 1971 to 1973 Mustangs and parts and it's no secret that the current President wants to eliminate internal combustion engine cars like ours and replace them with electric vehicles. I'm having a huge problem getting sheet metal parts I need to restore my cars. Gasolene prices are through the roof, and that will push people towards electric cars. I'm having a hard time finding people to work on my cars. Shops are having a hard time hiring people. They would rather stay at home and collect free money from the government. The owner of a shop that was doing one of my cars just died of COVID (he did not get vaccinated but he should have because he was diabetic and already in poor health). He got $5,000 from me but only did $2,000 in work. Now I have to go down to his place, remove my car and parts, and take them somewhere else. Is there anyone else out there besides me that has concern how all this will affect our hobby?
                          I don't think that we are going to go all electric anytime soon, it will be a good long time before we get there, if we ever do. The infrastructure is not there, the electric grid as it stands could not EVER support every vehicle in the road being electric, and to this day, you still have issues with range, and charging times, that they may, or may not resolve. Right now, I can tell you for a fact, that there is a LOT of change going on in the electric supply chain, they are trying to kill coal/natural gas generation and replace it with solar/wind. There is a lot if underhanded stuff being done by the feds to subsidize the solar/wind plants to the point that the coal/natural gas plants can't compete and thus have to close. We just had a coal plant close in my area. I have received letters from my electric cooperative to expect more blackouts and higher prices in the coming years as all this change happens. They explained how the feds are killing the coal and natural gas plants, by subsidizing the solar and wind plants. they also explained that this is NOT a good thing as solar and wind generation is not as reliable as the old methods. I live in Texas, and we just sent through the "snowpocalypse" in February, most of the states electric grid went down for days. One of the major contributing factors was wind and solar, the wind turbines froze, and there was little to no sunlight for days when this happened so the electric plants were not producing much, there were issues with the traditional generation forms too, but even if they had no issues, the collapse of the renewables meant that the grid was going to go down. Anyways, the grid for the next 10-20 years will probably be less reliable and will not have much increased capacity because of all the change of going from fossil fuels to renewables. I can't remember what the cooperative was saying about how much electric generation/capacity you needed with renewables to be able to get rid of fossil fuels, but it was a lot more, as it is so unreliable compared to fossil fuels. 

                      If they try to force manufacturers to only make electric cars in like 10 years, it will backfire big time. There will be major issue with there not being enough electric generation to feed the needs, you will end up with blackouts anytime there are increased energy needs, and it will not be a good thing. Now, imagine a state wide blackout for days, like we had here in Texas, and your cars batteries are empty or go empty... And you can't pull out your gasoline generator to charge it, as there is no gasoline, LOL. 

                     As for gasoline cars becoming illegal to drive, or gasoline getting so expensive that you cannot afford to, I don't know. Now, we need to be aware that California already has a law that all new cars sold in the state by 2035 have to be zero emissions vehicles... From there, to the point where they make it impossible for you to drive you gas car may not be far behind. In Europe there are already cities that have said that no ICE (internal combustion engines) can drive on their streets by 2030 or so. This may not be far behind here. So, if you live in a city that puts a no ICE car can be driven in this city, I guess you have a problem. 

                     My prediction is that if you live in a liberal state, they will eventually make it impossible for you to drive your classic car, except at a race track or something of the sort. If you live in a conservative state, you will be able to drive your ICE car till the day you die, but it may become expensive because of the cost of gasoline. For now values of classic cars will keep going up, if at some point it becomes impossible to drive them in certain states, then they will start coming down, if this never happens, even if gas becomes very expensive, the values will keep going up. 

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top