water pump

7173Mustangs.com

Help Support 7173Mustangs.com:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

164runner

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
87
Reaction score
8
Location
US
My Car
73 mach1, medium blue, 351 C-6
anyone running a high flow water pump and did it help cool the engine? drop the the temp versus a standard water pump
 
I've only run either a parts store reman or new units, and have never had cooling issues. In my experience, cooling issues generally result from errors in other areas of the cooling system, whether it be an incorrect thermostat for a 351C, using an aftermarket "performance" fan, lack of shroud, or improper pulley selection.
 
i changed over to a serpentine belt setup, pulley ratio is 1 to 1. the factory v-belt pulley is close to 1.1 to 1. car seems to run a little warmer on factory gauge, it sits on the letter E
 
It may run cool because of wrong thermostat Type. It should have a Robertshaw type!
The two biggest issues is not having a RobertShaw thermostat in a 351C engine and using an aftermarket water pump Weiand Water pump. There is a large write up on the pantera site about this

https://pantera.infopop.cc/topic/weiand-water-pump-modifacation#6880012344

But there is help. I bought the exact RobertShaw thermostat from flow kooler (195 degree) 333-195. This is part number for correct one for 351C with brass restrictor. If you are missing your restrictor they can sell you a different part number with the restrictor but it requires a different pn thermostat . Be careful with the water pump as I bought a Milodon HV (#16235) with recirculation by-pass from Amazon as a backup to me drilling out my Weiand Water Pump ( with 3/8" bit). I am awaiting the parts but this has been a problem for years I had no Idea about the fact of the water pump missing the recirculating passage ( you have to drill it out yourself). The fact I donot have AC in the car saves the day as the heater has no valve on line and it recirculates the water ( In my opinion partially correct). The thermostat needs the foot type or the best solution which is the OEM robertshaw!
Steve



1672874001144.png
 

Attachments

  • Original Robertshaw type Thermostat for 351C engine..pdf
    873.3 KB · Views: 0
  • RShaw Tstat.jpg
    RShaw Tstat.jpg
    18.8 KB · Views: 0
Hi all,
I take back what I said about foot version it is fair at best . I have removed it from earlier post and added below information. Also 192 is not available only the 195.
Steve


https://forum.grantorinosport.org/info-thermostat-for-351-cleveland-351m-or-400_topic18289.html

351C_Thermostat_TMeyer.jpg

This is the only style thermostat that should be used. The other hat designs do not flow enough coolant when open and cause the coolant path to continue to circulate in the block. The shaw design addresses the flow issue with the huge top opening allowing coolant from the radiator top hose to easily be pulled into the block. Having the lower hat to block the plate is a must but the big issue with this block is flow. The shaw thermostat was in the car from ford. If you look at the top of the others you can see how small the opening is compared to the shaw design.

The Robertshaw 330 series looks like the 333 series from the top, but flip it over & they're not the same. The 330 series is the universal thermostat that fits small block Fords, small block Chevys and small block Mopars.

That's also one way to determine what Mr Gasket & others are selling ... search which motors the thermostat fits. The 333 series fits 351C, 351M and 400 only. And a thermostat that fits 289/302/351 Fords, small block Chevys or small block Mopars will not work properly in a Cleveland.

Ford has used the Robertshaw high flow thermostat in many applications since the 1960s, and I believe they still use it today. They all look the same from the top, but only the one designed for the 351C has the little 11/16" flanged button on the bottom. Its a small subtle difference that many people don't understand. This thermostat is unique to the 335 series motors (351C, 351M, 400) and no other motor uses it.

Even Ford has sold the wrong thermostat over the counter in the 1970s! They actually boxed the wrong thermostat in the box of the right part number.

My advice is to use the 333-192 thermostat. The original 351C thermostats were 192 degree thermostats.

The above info is from George Pence on the Pantera forum and helps to select the correct thermostat. I run the 333-192. The reason for the 192 degree is the 335 series tends to collect condensation under the intake at 180 degrees and running around 192 clears that issue up.

Hope this helps clear things up, it helped me out as I had the hat style small opening in before and it made a big difference in cooling stability in any situation when I switched to the 333-192 on my Cleveland.
 
All very good and accurate info. Steve! As an additional note: The 180 degree Shaw
(333-180) may be a preferred alternative for some, based on their individual tune, driving style, fuel/knock sensitivity, etc.
 
Hi Cleveland Crush,
I agree with the 333-180 make sure you get it from flowKooler as they make a one that looks identical but has to use larger restrictor they sell as well. I am trying to get it close to the original. I have a Holley TBI EFI ( avenger with new Terminator ECU) and it tells me I have a 180 temperature and that is what led me to this problem.
Steve
 
I have been running the Stant 13468 180 Degree Thermostat with no problems. (with heater valve open) I also have the Weiand 8209 water pump.

I am considering drilling holes in the thermostat for bypass water flow. Are two 1/4" holes enough? Are these holes big enough? Does anyone have recommendations for hole sizes or a pictured of a drilled thermostat?

I do not want remove a non leaking Cleveland water pump unless I absolutely have to.
 
Hi 351C1971,
I tried to do it that way with heater hoses without a valve because I have no AC. It works but it not really right. The water suppose to recirculate under the Thermostat. The way your is now is it has a passage being vented or not the incorrect way. The Weiand water pump is a good part I have now a spare one with the hole drilled out. It is a 1/2" hole and not a 3/8" hole. The hole is drilled at a angle above the second port. I understand how you feel about removing pump. Mine pulled the timing cover loose because I forgot to remove one of the screws, and I had to do a timing cover gasket as well. I bought the Milodon HV (#16235) and a flowkooler robert shaw thermostat. I also discovered you can take a Mr Gasket 4365 thermostat and add the hat from wrong type slant thermostat and add it to it. ( this takes some doing) (it is nice to have OEM part to match up distance of foot) Drilling holes will help more flow but it will never warm up quickly. Shown below is a Weiand water pump with Hole drilled 1/2".
Steve

1673885452807.png
 
Hi Mad Irishman,
That is one of the best articles on Thermostat subject! It should be noted that on E-bay ther are Aussie water pumps. They cost less ($47.00 and $24.00 shipping cost). (ford 302 351C Cleveland High Volume Water Pump Satin) (From speedmaster USA)? I prefer the milodon or flowkooler pumps as they are supposed to be USA parts.
Steve
 
Hi 351C1971,
I tried to do it that way with heater hoses without a valve because I have no AC. It works but it not really right. The water suppose to recirculate under the Thermostat. The way your is now is it has a passage being vented or not the incorrect way. The Weiand water pump is a good part I have now a spare one with the hole drilled out. It is a 1/2" hole and not a 3/8" hole. The hole is drilled at a angle above the second port. I understand how you feel about removing pump. Mine pulled the timing cover loose because I forgot to remove one of the screws, and I had to do a timing cover gasket as well. I bought the Milodon HV (#16235) and a flowkooler robert shaw thermostat. I also discovered you can take a Mr Gasket 4365 thermostat and add the hat from wrong type slant thermostat and add it to it. ( this takes some doing) (it is nice to have OEM part to match up distance of foot) Drilling holes will help more flow but it will never warm up quickly. Shown below is a Weiand water pump with Hole drilled 1/2".
Steve

View attachment 72033

Found a great explanation and description of how correct thermostat for 351C works! Check it out. https://www.coolcatcorp.com/thermostats/Ford.html
 
Hi all,
Just to report results of Milodon Water Pump and Robert Shaw Thermostat. The car heats up much faster then before and in 60 degrees temperature outside it goes no warmer than 197-198 in any condition and runs 196 almost always. So much better than before. Calibrated the old fashion Temperature gauge to read almost half at 197 Degrees. Checked high end with 11 ohm resistor and its setup as well. This is the way it supposed to be. Set up Oil pressure Gauge ( my design) for 70lbs max H, 35 lbs middle . It idles hot at 29 to 33lbs. This is the way I like this to. All gauges should read around middle at Idle except for the Voltmeter ( ford ammeter turned into voltmeter by Rocketman) which reads around 14 volts with lights off and 13.5 at idle lights on.
Steve
 
The one ford and most specify, MOTORCRAFT SW2328
{Alternate Inventory Numbers: F1SZ10884A, F1SF10884AA}. To verify it I look at 3.5" display of Holley EFI . The Holley Temperature sender ( Part # 534-10) with it mounted on the Hot water hose coming from the Block outlet then going to heater (no Ac in car). The temperature sender from Holley used is a Two wire type costs by itself $50.00. It is part of Avenger, Terminator, Sniper packages. I can verify all gauges within 1% with there computer I have been told. Motorcraft one wire and Holley shown below.
Steve
1674239377588.png1674239390475.png
 
Last edited:
Hi all.
I got this from another site but a 26.1 ohm (digikey SFR16S0002619FR500, PPC26.1XCT-ND) would be useful for testing also get a 10 ohm (CFR-50JB-52-10R , 10H-ND) and 11 ohm (CFR-50JB-52-11R, 11H-ND) I prefer the 11 ohm for full scale. The resistors will cost $0.11 each, the Us mail option for shipping $4.99. Test with the resistor to verify Temperature meters ( this is very similar to fuel gauge, the same numbers I think). I do not trust any sender parts but Ford ones. You can heat up water on stove and verify with a meter but this maybe off a little.
Steve







1674256975763.png
 
Back
Top