Well I screwed up!!

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Trying to set valves today I ended up reversing the engine about 20 degrees. I noticed the distributor was not turning afterward, then heard what sounded like a "tink" in the oil pan.

Pulled the Distributor to find 2 teeth broken off the gear. Have not roated and checked the cam gear for damage yet. I guess it could have happened at a worse time, but I didn't want to pull the pan again.

View attachment 31680

 

barnett468

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ok, as long as your distributor was properly installed and had the hold down clamp on it, you did not screw it up . . you should be able to turn the engine backwards all you want by hand so all you did was find a problem that likely would have happened under normal driving conditions.

if you turned the engine backwards without the clamp on it, it can lift up and jam the gears and break them.

if you want, post the cam and distributor mfg.

 
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ok, as long as your distributor was properly installed and had the hold down clamp on it, you did not screw it up . . you should be able to turn the engine backwards all you want by hand so all you did was find a problem that likely would have happened under normal driving conditions.

if you turned the engine backwards without the clamp on it, it can lift up and jam the gears and break them.

if you want, post the cam and distributor mfg.
Well, I think I smoked it. The Dizzy was an original Ford, but not quite seated all the way apparently. Looks like it took a small chip off the cam gear too. It si a Ford Motorsport cam.

Looks like I need to start over, huh?

:huh:

 

barnett468

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ok, as long as your distributor was properly installed and had the hold down clamp on it, you did not screw it up . . you should be able to turn the engine backwards all you want by hand so all you did was find a problem that likely would have happened under normal driving conditions.

if you turned the engine backwards without the clamp on it, it can lift up and jam the gears and break them.

if you want, post the cam and distributor mfg.
Well, I think I smoked it. The Dizzy was an original Ford, but not quite seated all the way apparently. Looks like it took a small chip off the cam gear too. It si a Ford Motorsport cam.

Looks like I need to start over, huh?

:huh:

unfortunately yes . . major bummer.

.

 
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So tonight I lay down and close my eyes after a long week and get this vision in my head.

"I have a spare distributor in the parts cabinet, second drawer." So I hop up, head to the garage, and there it was. Second drawer of the parts cabinet, with the gear I need to fix mine.

Kinda cool!

kcmash

 

barnett468

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So tonight I lay down and close my eyes after a long week and get this vision in my head.

"I have a spare distributor in the parts cabinet, second drawer." So I hop up, head to the garage, and there it was. Second drawer of the parts cabinet, with the gear I need to fix mine.

Kinda cool!

kcmash
very cool, so now all you need to do is change the cam.

 
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1971 Mach 1, Grabber Blue w/Argent stripes. Original 2V 351C Auto, Tilt, rear defog, Black Comfortweave Interior. Under restoration. Original colors, 4V 351C, 4-Speed, Spoilers, Magnums, Ram Air. All Ford parts.
So tonight I lay down and close my eyes after a long week and get this vision in my head.

"I have a spare distributor in the parts cabinet, second drawer." So I hop up, head to the garage, and there it was. Second drawer of the parts cabinet, with the gear I need to fix mine.

Kinda cool!

kcmash
very cool, so now all you need to do is change the cam.
Actually, since the cam is obsolete I am going to go ahead and give it a try. When I looked at the cam gear again I found that I did not have the damage I thought. I pulled the pan today and recovered distributor gear fragments and am going to re-assemble.

I did talk with a local performance engine builder and confirmed that this is a low risk option.

 

InjectedMach

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Wait dont do that!! too much can go wrong steel on steel. Spend the $100 and get a composite cam gear, they are tolerant to drive gear imperfections as a ding and a lot cheaper than metal all throught the engine and you on the shoulder of the road. I would even try the Bronze gear but they are meant to wear out so it will wear out however the composite(like Nylon) is indestructable.

 
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Wait dont do that!! too much can go wrong steel on steel. Spend the $100 and get a composite cam gear, they are tolerant to drive gear imperfections as a ding and a lot cheaper than metal all throught the engine and you on the shoulder of the road. I would even try the Bronze gear but they are meant to wear out so it will wear out however the composite(like Nylon) is indestructable.
Hmmm, I never thought about the composite gear deal. Will a Hi-po cam in a Cleveland not tear that up? I fought for about an hour with the distributor on Friday and realize something must be out of wack, so i ordered a refurbished unit from our Kansas City based Mustang Parts house. At $59 I figured that was a smart move.

Where do you buy parts like the Nylon Dizzy gear?

kcmash

 

barnett468

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Wait dont do that!! too much can go wrong steel on steel. Spend the $100 and get a composite cam gear, they are tolerant to drive gear imperfections as a ding and a lot cheaper than metal all throught the engine and you on the shoulder of the road. I would even try the Bronze gear but they are meant to wear out so it will wear out however the composite(like Nylon) is indestructable.
Hmmm, I never thought about the composite gear deal. Will a Hi-po cam in a Cleveland not tear that up? I fought for about an hour with the distributor on Friday and realize something must be out of wack, so i ordered a refurbished unit from our Kansas City based Mustang Parts house. At $59 I figured that was a smart move.

Where do you buy parts like the Nylon Dizzy gear?

kcmash
the stock gear is fine with a stock material cam.

you shouldnt use the vacuum advance on the rebuilt distributor until you see how much advance it adds and curve your ignition timing.

.

 

InjectedMach

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kcmash, please understand Im not saying that the (stock) metal gear is incompatible what I am saying is the Nylon gear is stronger and will outlast the steel or iron gear especially since there may be imperfections on the cam drive gear from knocking teeth of the dist. gear.

Comp cams sells the gears and they can be gotten from summitracing.com. I had a defective distributor from MSD where the internal shaft was not concentric with the od of the housing and it ate my distributor drive gear OFF my cam, Long story short had to pull motor down to get all he steel out so upon putting my engine back together decided to use the composite gear and never face that again. Found out about the composite gear from a high performance machine shop close by and reserached it and now I am a believer and no a hp cam in a 351c wont hurt the composite gear....

used them in 429's, 408W and 393C all bumping 500+hp. Good luck no matter which route you follow just trying to share my trying and expensive expiernce so you dont have endure it as well.

 
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I think I found my problem. The new dizzy is having trouble dropping in on the correct tooth. I decided to turn the oil pump shaft 1/8 turn with a nut driver to see if that would help. I cannot get the shaft to budge with a nut driver. Any chance the pump froze up while waiting for the car to be finished. (10+ years)?

Let me know what you think. I had primed it when I assembled the engine, so I don't think it would have corroded.

 

barnett468

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if there was oil in the engine the entire time it should be fine . . the main reason it wouldn't turn is if it got incredibly rusty.

 
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if there was oil in the engine the entire time it should be fine . . the main reason it wouldn't turn is if it got incredibly rusty.
Well I just found that problem! Back in the 80's when doing engine rebuilds it was always recommended to pack the oil pump with white lithium grease to get e good vacuum on the initial prime of the engine oiling system. Of course white lithium grease will set over time.(Especially a long time.)

So I did get the pump to turn , and turn freely after working the pump slowly with a wrench driving the pump shaft. So I am confident I will be OK there.

Now the big problem again is getting the dizzy to seat all the way. I never remember it being this hard in the past, but I do remember bumping the engine to get it to drop in. Since my engine is on a pallet, do I need to turn the crank 1/4 turn to get a drop or what? Someone please remind me!

Thanks

kcmash

 
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Check that the oil pump rod is centered. I had a time getting my dizzy in

because the pump rod was leaning and the dizzy wouldnt go all the way in.

I used a dab of grease to center the pump rod.

IMO I would be worried about the oil pump relief valve being frozen

or is that not an issue with a cleveland?

Paul

 

barnett468

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in addition put grease on the distributor housing and block.

put the engine on tdc for number 1 cylinder

rotate the housing so the vacuum canister vacuum fitting is pointing straight forward.

turn the rotor until it is two clocked 2 plug wire posts counter clockwise to where you want it to be.

drop the assembly in.

as you face the front of the engine, rotate it clockwise 1/4 to 1/2 turn as you push downward on the distributor lightly.

 
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Thanks guys. It's in. ready to put the tranny on the back and drop it in the car.

.....After I see if I have the correct motor mounts.

kcmash

 

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