Won't start after dying during the monthly startup

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Joined
Aug 7, 2010
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Location
McDermitt, NV
My Car
1973 Convertible H Code, 351C 2V FMX
Went out to start the 'vert and take it for its monthly decent weather drive. Started great after about 5 seconds of cranking. Starter sounded normal, fired right up, idled well as the engine was warmed up. Backed out of the driveway and drove 50 feet when she started missing a bit. Feathered the gas to smooth her out and only got worse, until it died. Started right up but missing bad and then died. Tried to restart but wouldn't turn over - just a single click. Pushed her back home into the driveway and still won't turn over. 12.82 volts at the battery and positive terminal on the solenoid. No strange sounds noted while she was running.

I replaced everything during the rebuild, except the starter and starter solenoid. There's plenty of gas in the clear fuel filter and to the carb, so I'm 92.4% sure it's electrical. Which road should I head down first?

 
I'm going with the solenoid
And I went through 3 new ones that were no good for the ex's car and ended up repairing the old one. Do you have voltage on the starter post with solenoid engaged?

The starter solenoid should not effect the ignition if wired correctly.

 
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Sounds like two problem occurring simultaneously to me. The missing could be fuel(choke) or ignition and the single click/no turn over, is clearly in the start circuit as the battery seems to be charged. I'd check all the fasteners to make sure they are tight and not corroded. Then with a fully charged battery measure the voltage between the two large posts on the solenoid while engaging the starter. This checks the HD contact that sends power to the starter. If the contact is good you should read near 0 VDC. If not, pitch the solenoid. After market parts are just getting lower and lower in quality. Just a guess at this point. Chuck

 
OK, I checked all the connections and wires, and nothing changed. Measured the voltage across the two big wires attached to the solenoid, and 0.0 Volts while engaging the ignition. Lights and buzzers work great. I can hear and feel the "click" from the solenoid when the ignition is engaged. Checked the wire to the starter, and it's attached soundly.

I also remembered that I didn't replace the voltage regulator, either. Should I just go ahead and replace solenoid and voltage regulator? Any other ideas?

 
I would consider upgrading the starter to a more modern gear driven style with the integral solenoid. THe wiring modifications are very simple. I went to NAPA and asked for a 1992 Bronco 351W 5 speed and it fit the cleveland perfectly. I would always replace the solenoid when changing a starter. Battery condition should be load tested if there is any doubt.

 
Thanks for the tips so far. I went ahead and replaced the solenoid with no effect. Next step is the starter, I guess. I remember it was a PITA installing it after the rebuild, and was thankful that the headers were still loose so I could get it in. Dang! :dodgy:

 
I would consider upgrading the starter to a more modern gear driven style with the integral solenoid. THe wiring modifications are very simple. I went to NAPA and asked for a 1992 Bronco 351W 5 speed and it fit the cleveland perfectly. I would always replace the solenoid when changing a starter. Battery condition should be load tested if there is any doubt.
Im against solenoids on starters..."too each there own".I know they work well...But dont care for them for 2 reasons...when they go out..it cost waaaay more...and its too hot down by the motor and they dont like to last....maybe you can put a chevy style heat shield..but still...too me they can be a bigger hassle than stock ford...i think fords firewall solenoid is one of the best places ever for it.

pphh relaced it with no change? mmm maybe your starter went flat...did you try and arch your old solenoid with a screw driver too see if that starter would move? i rarely do that..unless im out of choices and stuck on the side of the road..lol...But it does sound like your starter gave up the ghost...maybe the bindex went out and its stuck engaged...maybe reason why it started runing ruff...sounds like a few little things went bad at once.

 
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Okay, I understand you checked the battery, 12volts from pole to pole.

The lights work so you probably have good grounds.

You will not see any voltage from one side of the solenoid to the other with the ignition on. They both have 12v positive.

The best way to test solenoide is: voltmeter set to volts. Postitive on the 'starter' side of the solenoide, negative on the negative battery post. Turn the key to 'start'. Do you see 12.x volts on the meter? If you do, you probably have power going to the starter and the starter is bad. (see check starter below) If you don't than either you solenoid is bad or it is not getting power at the post that enguages it. Move the positive of the test meter to the small post closest to the BATTERY side of the solenoid. Turn key to start. Do you have 12x volts? NO? You are not getting power to solenoid, Yes, you are, probably a bad solenoid.

Check starter. Okay, this is easy and kind of fun. Take the big wire off the battery side of the solenoid off, touch it to the starter side. BIG SPARK. Make sure you are in a well ventilated area since your battery has fumes that can cause it to explode. Not likely but well ventilated is good. BIG SPARK! The car will either crank over or it won't. If you get a BIG SPARK and it doesn't crank at all, you have a bad starter. If you get a BIG SPARK and it does crank, you have a good starter. If you do NOT GET A BIG SPARK then you have a bad ground or possibly a bad starter.

 
Okay, I understand you checked the battery, 12volts from pole to pole.

The lights work so you probably have good grounds.

You will not see any voltage from one side of the solenoid to the other with the ignition on. They both have 12v positive.

The best way to test solenoide is: voltmeter set to volts. Postitive on the 'starter' side of the solenoide, negative on the negative battery post. Turn the key to 'start'. Do you see 12.x volts on the meter? If you do, you probably have power going to the starter and the starter is bad. (see check starter below) If you don't than either you solenoid is bad or it is not getting power at the post that enguages it. Move the positive of the test meter to the small post closest to the BATTERY side of the solenoid. Turn key to start. Do you have 12x volts? NO? You are not getting power to solenoid, Yes, you are, probably a bad solenoid.

Check starter. Okay, this is easy and kind of fun. Take the big wire off the battery side of the solenoid off, touch it to the starter side. BIG SPARK. Make sure you are in a well ventilated area since your battery has fumes that can cause it to explode. Not likely but well ventilated is good. BIG SPARK! The car will either crank over or it won't. If you get a BIG SPARK and it doesn't crank at all, you have a bad starter. If you get a BIG SPARK and it does crank, you have a good starter. If you do NOT GET A BIG SPARK then you have a bad ground or possibly a bad starter.
"You will not see any voltage from one side of the solenoid to the other with the ignition on. They both have 12v positive. " That is true If the heavy duty contact inside is good (E=IxR, if R=0 then E=0). If contact is burnt/corroded then the resistance is not 0 and voltage will not be 0. I was trying to explain how to check the condition of the HD contact that transfers power to the starter. Quick and dirty check on the mechanical condition (not electrical) starter, smack it with a hammer using an extension. If it then works, the bushings or bendix is bad. Requires no DC arc welding. Chuck

 
Thanks, everyone. Removed battery cable from battery side of solenoid and got a tiny spark and no starter movement or sound. So I'm thinking bad ground. I never reinstalled the braided ground that I removed from somewhere around the firewall during the tear down. Could this be the problem? Where should I start with my bad ground investigation?

Thanks for all your help!

 
Did you check if the timing Chain jumped a notch or two? See if everything still lines up

 
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Really easy test. Take your multi-meter and turn it to OHMS. Put one lead on the neg of the battery and the other to a non-painted body part. Do you see almost no resistance? If yes, your ground is good.

To double check, change the multi-meter to dc volts. put the red side on battery and the other side to a non-painted body part. Do you see 12v? No? Ground is bad.

 
If you have to pull the starter, here is a tip. take a ratchet strap and drop it down through the engine compartment and tie one end around the starter. tie the other end over the engine on the opposite side header.exhaust manifold with just the slack taken out, this takes the weight off when you go to do the work and can be reversed on install. Very helpful when working alone.

 
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