WHAT'S NEXT

[marks73]

Checkpoints????

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/06/18796204-report-nsa-collecting-phone-records-of-verizon-customers?lite

 

[matrixx]

What's Next? 85% of the population have no freaking idea Mark. I have verizon but it doesnt matter who your carrier is for the last 5-10years I have always been careful with what you so over the airwaves.

 

[CZ-75]

Brave New World.

Maybe Aldous Huxley was Nostrdamus in a different life

 

[Boss1Ray]

If they ask me why I said something - I'll just use the "new-normal" lingo:

"I was just playin'"... Yeah right.

Gentlemen, I'm afraid it is going to get worse before it gets better.

Unfortunately.

Ray

 

[MechEng]

Much worse I would have to argue. Unfortunately at the moment I think far too many people are willing to give up their civil liberties and privileges in the search of some perceived greater level of security.

 

[Kermit 460]

Ever watch the tv show "person of interest"? Thats probably closer to a government reality then we think.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Well, as someone with a little insight into 'The Biz,' I can honestly say that NSA does not have the capabilities of tracking "everybody's" phone records/conversations. WAY too much information for even them to keep up with - as in (for example - hypothetically), they have 10 billion individual phone records/conversations to sift through per month, and 10 dedicated techs to do it. I don't care how automated the process is, that simply is not going to happen with any kind of ongoing success.

Basically, if you're a known terrorist or anti-American-type individual: be afraid. If you're just an average American citizen trying to live life within the bounds of the law, not so much.

I mention 'capabilities,' simply for the fact that trying to get money out of them to support our systems is like pulling teeth out of a chicken, and I've heard that it's an 'across the board'-type thing.

I know it sounds Orwellian [what's being done], but this is honestly just 'the next step' of monitoring being done by... anybody, really. Why do you think you keep getting new credit card applications from companies you don't know or would care to do business with? Because 'they' are monitoring your credit history... but you're OK with that. Why do you think you see the exact advertisements on websites (or in the mail) for things you might be interested in? Because 'they' are monitoring your shopping habits... but you're OK with that, too. Do you know who 'they' might be? Certainly not anybody who could be held accountable for abusing your privacy. Privately-owned companies are not held to the same standards as government agencies despite how it might appear these days - trust me, there is 'intent' to enforce government standards... even if the current administration is having obvious difficulties in doing so.

'Privacy' is a term that means many things to many people. If you interract with anybody these days, you have no entitlement to 'Privacy.' If you have a car, you're being tracked. If you go to the doctor or dentist, you're being tracked. If you have a credit card, you're being tracked. Even if you insist on 'paying in cash,' you still have to get the cash, and guess what: it's tracked. The only way to get away from it all is to become Amish and live off the grid... and even that will be tracked because of the fact that you're trying to live off the grid (like most terrorists do). Face it - 'Privacy' any more means that you can still probably get away with farting in the bathroom (as long as the door is closed and nobody's home). Wi-Fi routers these days track your online usage and even locations within the service area. This is just the beginning, people... and you're only outraged (as it were) because the media is reporting that a government agency is trying to use this methodology to track terrorists and potentially prevent attacks on our nation and people - but could seemingly care less if other private citizens (employed by privately-owned companies) have access to your PII (Personal Identifying Information) and ultimately, your money and financial security... "life itself" (which, coincidentally, is also in the hands of a privately-owned company).

I've got FOX News on right now, and the man explaining exactly what NSA is doing (and not doing) was my former squadron commander here at Goodfellow AFB just 10 years ago. His name is Cedric Leighton (Col, USAF Ret.), and I can honestly say he's an honest man with great integrity - a straight shooter... despite what the media would have you believe.

I know that won't hold much (if any) water with a lot of people, but it's the truth and as a Verizon customer myself, I have no reason to defend anybody pulling my own phone records (or credit reports, or shopping habits, etc., etc., etc.).

Sorry for the novel...

 

[midlife]

With all of the calls Don gets at OMS, I'm sure he's on the shortlist of "persons of interest". Besides, isn't Wolverine one of the most "Interesting Persons" in the world?

 

[Jim and Jutta]

...

I know that won't hold much (if any) water with a lot of people, but it's the truth and as a Verizon customer myself, I have no reason to defend anybody pulling my own phone records (or credit reports, or shopping habits, etc., etc., etc.).

Sorry for the novel...

I believe terrorism was the original intention of collecting and monitoring all the data but it has "potential" for abuse by a Government who could use it to target certain citizens/groups and their associations for reasons other than terrorism.

 

[72HCODE]

the checkpoints already exist.

just Google "illegal checkpoints in America" or "unconstitutional checkpoints"

so nice living in the decline of a civilization.

 

[marks73]

the checkpoints already exist.

just Google "illegal checkpoints in America" or "unconstitutional checkpoints"

so nice living in the decline of a civilization.

Every great civilization had a beginning, a golden era, and a fall. Looks like we're getting to the steep part of the slope.

 

[Mister 4x4]

...

I know that won't hold much (if any) water with a lot of people, but it's the truth and as a Verizon customer myself, I have no reason to defend anybody pulling my own phone records (or credit reports, or shopping habits, etc., etc., etc.).

Sorry for the novel...

I believe terrorism was the original intention of collecting and monitoring all the data but it has "potential" for abuse by a Government who could use it to target certain citizens/groups and their associations for reasons other than terrorism.

Agreed. Which is why I said what I did about 'intentions' and 'difficulty [in staying within the standards].'

Ideally, when you have the ability do something for the greater good (as was the intent), there's always a chance that some innocents are going to caught up in the fall-out - but when done properly, those numbers are very low... almost negligible. However, when you have people taking advantage of that ability for their own purposes (as noted by the evidence of wrong-doings floating to the surface - on several fronts), then yes - it becomes an outrage-worthy problem.

How to address the problem? Several ways. Remove the 'ability' altogether (thus precluding any potential 'greater good' benefits), or punish and remove those who are responsible for the wrong-doings. Apparently, "We The People" are not strong enough (nor do we rate) for the appropriate disciplenary actions to be levelled against the wrong-doers (since our accountability officials don't seem to have the intestinal fortitude to do such things), and they have no intention of ceasing operations, either.

So now what?

And don't forget: privately-owned companies that the media is not interested in are tracking your EVERY move - not just asking for your phone records.

 

[caspianwendell]

Just clean the cookies out of your computer, and watch what you send on your phone or in an email. "they" have hit words just like google and can zero in on that alone. The government is going to hell in a handcart and as long as we just sit on our ass and let them, we are just as guilty as "they" are. Our Constitutional rights are being amended (attacked) and we MUST stand up and protect those rights as a whole. We the people are supposed to be in control of what goes on in legislation, but now most people just watch the arguments on TV and hope for the best, and whine when it goes the wrong way. Less government is what we need. We don't need obama care, illegal immigrant forgiveness, higher taxes, forced into sissy electric cars, more unenforced gun laws, and some national security bull crap to take care of us...What we need is to start doing for ourselves again. I get carried away sometimes on this subject and for that i'm sorry and will just shut up...but I will say this, I have a right to say what I damn well please and whoever don't like it (in government) can make their bet and roll the dice as I have nothing to hide.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Just clean the cookies out of your computer, and watch what you send on your phone or in an email. "they" have hit words just like google and can zero in on that alone. The government is going to hell in a handcart and as long as we just sit on our ass and let them, we are just as guilty as "they" are. Our Constitutional rights are being amended (attacked) and we MUST stand up and protect those rights as a whole. We the people are supposed to be in control of what goes on in legislation, but now most people just watch the arguments on TV and hope for the best, and whine when it goes the wrong way. Less government is what we need. We don't need obama care, illegal immigrant forgiveness, higher taxes, forced into sissy electric cars, more unenforced gun laws, and some national security bull crap to take care of us...What we need is to start doing for ourselves again. I get carried away sometimes on this subject and for that i'm sorry and will just shut up...but I will say this, I have a right to say what I damn well please and whoever don't like it (in government) can make their bet and roll the dice as I have nothing to hide.

No Way should you 'Shut Up,' CW. You are 'Dead On' in your assessment - I just wish more would've come to these conclusions before we had the election decided for us.

Even though I work for the Federal Government (as an Air Force Civilian... I am NOT one of those turds within The Beltway that gives the rest of us a bad name), I can honestly say that I'm ashamed of the things the upper-level management is doing. I am no less outraged by the lack of integrity, accountability, and honesty being exuded by our country's leadership than anybody else who didn't vote for them - and even many who did, as apparent by the shifting poll numbers.

 

[caspianwendell]

Just clean the cookies out of your computer, and watch what you send on your phone or in an email. "they" have hit words just like google and can zero in on that alone. The government is going to hell in a handcart and as long as we just sit on our ass and let them, we are just as guilty as "they" are. Our Constitutional rights are being amended (attacked) and we MUST stand up and protect those rights as a whole. We the people are supposed to be in control of what goes on in legislation, but now most people just watch the arguments on TV and hope for the best, and whine when it goes the wrong way. Less government is what we need. We don't need obama care, illegal immigrant forgiveness, higher taxes, forced into sissy electric cars, more unenforced gun laws, and some national security bull crap to take care of us...What we need is to start doing for ourselves again. I get carried away sometimes on this subject and for that i'm sorry and will just shut up...but I will say this, I have a right to say what I damn well please and whoever don't like it (in government) can make their bet and roll the dice as I have nothing to hide.

No Way should you 'Shut Up,' CW. You are 'Dead On' in your assessment - I just wish more would've come to these conclusions before we had the election decided for us.

Even though I work for the Federal Government (as an Air Force Civilian... I am NOT one of those turds within The Beltway that gives the rest of us a bad name), I can honestly say that I'm ashamed of the things the upper-level management is doing. I am no less outraged by the lack of integrity, accountability, and honesty being exuded by our country's leadership than anybody else who didn't vote for them - and even many who did, as apparent by the shifting poll numbers.

Not everyone that holds a seat in government is a bad person. There are still a few that uphold the Constitution but, unfortunately not enough to offset the ones on top. If everything was done by law, there would be no problems but, when things don't go your way and you can enact an executive order to bypass law...what's the point of having laws or enforcers of said laws? Our government was set up in a way that protects the people. And if that should ever fail, the Constitution allows the people to protect themselves from a failed government. So in order to completely dismantle the system they first have to amend our rights and persuade us into their way of thinking. If propaganda tactics fail, then force will be used. Do the math yourself people...2+2 still = 4 no matter what they tell you.

 

[droptop73]

Much worse I would have to argue. Unfortunately at the moment I think far too many people are willing to give up their civil liberties and privileges in the search of some perceived greater level of security.

"He who deserts liberty for savety deserves neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

They really understood the pitfalls of power!

 

[mach71351c]

I don't want the government to read what really think so it would be best to keep it to my self.

 

[caspianwendell]

I don't want the government to read what really think so it would be best to keep it to my self.

then they would never know how I really feel, but then again I am not known for being quiet...LOL

 

[Jim and Jutta]

Although we all have views on this subject we should probably let this one die out. Nothing can divide friends more than discussions concerning religion or politics, what makes this site special is that we all get along so well and help each other. We're all friends here so if we want to vent, let's vent about those damn Chevy's.

Jim