127mm artillery shell

[hyena429]

Made a little vid demo on a old ww2 shell i have had sence i was 10 years old...My dad put a bid on it at a auction for 1 dollar...He did not really want it but won..lol...I have never figured out what cannon it went too yet...It is very rare..Most 127's {5 inch shell} have a crimping ban for a brass shell casing...This one does not...This is the type that needed powder bags packed behind it like a big boy 16 inch..It is shaped just like a big 16..has the original mech timed fuze still....I have never found one just like it...Close but always something diffrent...This one has a hell of a tall fuze compared too most 127's..Plus a very needle like shape compared too most 127mm's i looked up...Plus it seems to be alot taller and heavier than most 127mm's..wondering if it come from the old ww2 coastal guns or something.

I think it was some kinda training round for Navy or Army and such..It is stamped dummy on the fuse and empty on the bottom ban..Making me think it was done so they could train people on how to set the fuze and load it...Maybe some of you old military guys seen one just like it...But i think its a little before most peoples time on here..lol

 

[caspianwendell]

I collect rounds too but not anything that large. The largest I have is a 20mm

 

[hyena429]

I collect rounds too but not anything that large. The largest I have is a 20mm

Cool man...matter of fact that is one im missing..20mm..Been eyeballing some old 40mm's too..anything military i will gladly collect..lol

This shell use to be green..But my brother ran off with it while we was moving ... I found it outside his house with paint peeling off.."we always kept it inside"..I took and sanded it all down and painted it with the only paint i had " black semi gloss motor paint " and thank god it was not rusted...i painted it..and told him dont ever ask about that shell again...How you abused it and treated it..You do not desurve it..hehe

Going to paint it again...I just painted it black to stop any rust till i figure out what color i want.

 

[CZ-75]

That is cool!!!!

Maybe someone at a military museum would know something about it?

 

[Paul of MO]

That fuse is called a Theil mechanism. Used early to mid WWII and then replaced by the MK53 proximity fuse.

Mostly for naval anti aircraft artillery but the British used it on land as well.

Your shell should have a provision for 2nd fuse in the base if it was for ship to ship.

No second fuse if it was for anti aircraft.

This type fuse was used on many different sized shells.

This was a machine set timer - punch the range data into fire control and as the shell moved up the tubes to the gun it would be set automatically.

Shell and charge would be mated in the gun and then "boom".

I bet you have tried to turn the ring by hand and it does not move. You will need a big ass wrench with a strong vice to get it to move.

If your shell was live it would be almost impossible for it to detonate even if you hit it with a hammer or it fell off of a table because the fuse would not be set.

If it had already been fused but not fired it would have been very carefully lowered over the side and would be at the bottom of the sea.

They would have replaced the powder charge and tried again in most fail to fire situations.

Your shell was used to calibrate the fire control - they ran it through the gun and then checked to see if it had been timed correctly. It is full of putty so it is the correct weight.

I wonder how many live shells are sitting around in the US?

- Paul

 

[hyena429]

I used to be able to get the fuse off when i was a kiddy..lol..But not now...This shell was at my brothers house for 15 years untill i had to rescue it...I figured i would need a proper wrench and maybe a little heat to make it move again.

Great information!! now i hear the number of brass rings it has tells a story too? and this one has no grove at the base for a brass case ...The Fuze is stamped m-79 mechanical timed fuze...Then some one x'ed out some other codes on it..and put dummy on the fuze...I figured it was some kinda training round...But never thought of a calibration round good catch!!...I been having a hell of a time finding one all together like it...The fuze setting still turns...And ya i read the only way this shells fuze would start it's count down was if it was shot out of a gun..Works on g force pretty much right?

 

[Paul of MO]

I used to be able to get the fuse off when i was a kiddy..lol..But not now...This shell was at my brothers house for 15 years untill i had to rescue it...I figured i would need a proper wrench and maybe a little heat to make it move again.

Great information!! now i hear the number of brass rings it has tells a story too? and this one has no grove at the base for a brass case ...The Fuze is stamped m-79 mechanical timed fuze...Then some one x'ed out some other codes on it..and put dummy on the fuze...I figured it was some kinda training round...But never thought of a calibration round good catch!!...I been having a hell of a time finding one all together like it...The fuze setting still turns...And ya i read the only way this shells fuze would start it's count down was if it was shot out of a gun..Works on g force pretty much right?

Never heard of a M79 timed fuse but who knows.

You are close - if it has never passed through the loading mechanism then a "live" shell of this style will be almost impossible to make explode. The fuse is locked out in more than one way. It would take significant effort to turn the ring by hand for the first time as there are shearing pins.

If it has passed through the loader and was fused (ring turned to a specific time for the first time) then it does start counting down once it is fired BUT it does not take a lot of g force to start the timer. The shell also has to be spinning to go live but this fail safe is not all that fail safe.

If there was a failure to fire and the fused shell was in the chamber the crew would have several options to get it shot. Having to remove the actual shell would be unlikely. That is a benefit of these "2 part" type artillery shells.

In battle the crew would access the breach, extract the shell, carefully take it to the side and drop it over. I doubt that anyone would decide to keep it as a keep sake.

These are rare and hard to find info on because they were made as a tool to maintain the loader more than a training item.

- Paul

 

[hyena429]

I used to be able to get the fuse off when i was a kiddy..lol..But not now...This shell was at my brothers house for 15 years untill i had to rescue it...I figured i would need a proper wrench and maybe a little heat to make it move again.

Great information!! now i hear the number of brass rings it has tells a story too? and this one has no grove at the base for a brass case ...The Fuze is stamped m-79 mechanical timed fuze...Then some one x'ed out some other codes on it..and put dummy on the fuze...I figured it was some kinda training round...But never thought of a calibration round good catch!!...I been having a hell of a time finding one all together like it...The fuze setting still turns...And ya i read the only way this shells fuze would start it's count down was if it was shot out of a gun..Works on g force pretty much right?

Never heard of a M79 timed fuse but who knows.

You are close - if it has never passed through the loading mechanism then a "live" shell of this style will be almost impossible to make explode. The fuse is locked out in more than one way. It would take significant effort to turn the ring by hand for the first time as there are shearing pins.

If it has passed through the loader and was fused (ring turned to a specific time for the first time) then it does start counting down once it is fired BUT it does not take a lot of g force to start the timer. The shell also has to be spinning to go live but this fail safe is not all that fail safe.

If there was a failure to fire and the fused shell was in the chamber the crew would have several options to get it shot. Having to remove the actual shell would be unlikely. That is a benefit of these "2 part" type artillery shells.

In battle the crew would access the breach, extract the shell, carefully take it to the side and drop it over. I doubt that anyone would decide to keep it as a keep sake.

These are rare and hard to find info on because they were made as a tool to maintain the loader more than a training item.

- Paul

Thanks alot paul! Filled me full of more info than i knew..I did figure out somthing while going over it..It is not a 5 inch...it is some odd ball experimental 4.7inch...they converted over to a cheaper but less effective british 4.5 i guess...But from what i hear..it was the farthest shooting in its class at the time..

The development resulted in 4.7 inch Gun M1922E on Carriage M1921E. Due to lack of funding, the design never reached production

In 1939 the program was restarted; the renewed design, designated 4.7 inch Gun T3, was ready by early 1940; it utilized the same carriage as the concurrently developed 155 mm howitzer.The gun had good range, nearly five km longer than its 155 mm howitzer . At this stage, the army decided to change the weapon to use the British 4.5 inch ammunition. The modified gun was standardized in April 1941 as 4.5 inch Gun M1 on Carriage M1.

So seems this round did not have a long life...Was a bit experimental...i guess the reason im having a hard time finding one..lol..I guess the british 4.5 lacked the punch of our version of the 4.7..due to quality steel..the 4.5 took more steel to make..so it carried less powder than the 4.7 american version...But there version was much cheaper i guess...typical..lol

 

[caspianwendell]

Lot of good info there Paul