Droptop73 a little feed back Plz

[Tubo]

Long term goals for our 73 Vert include Coyote 5.0 drivetrain. Which will intail new front suspension & steering. No telling how long sourcing a donor 2012-13 Mustang will take.

So in the interim to fix a loose center steering issue, I'm thinking bout replacing the steering box. Ball joints tie rods, and ideler seem to be in good condition as is strut rod rubber. My Brother was the PO, and I can see him having replaced most of the steering replacables.

As long as I'm gonna replace the steerng box anyway, I've sourced an OTS Cardone 93-96 Grand Cherokee pn # 27-7582, fer $125 shipped & done(no core chg). Seller wont budge off the price.

Soooo Mr. Droptop73, in your experience. Is this an approriate $$, and izzt likely to be whats needed to cure the loose center steering issue?? I always seem to get into WYAI's...any other feed back iz apperciated.

TIA

Tubo

 

[Mister 4x4]

IRT the Coyote set-up, you might consider just getting a Ford Motorsports 'crate' Coyote engine and ECU. According to an article I read in Mustang Monthly sometime last year, the ECU controlling the engine has some kind of 'defeat' built-in to prevent someone from transplanting the engine - with OR without the ECU (I'm guessing BCU or something else entirely controls this).

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicles/mump_1202_1969_gateway_classic_mustang_coyote_wild/viewall.html

Gateway Classic might also have their kit together by now as well.

I'm thinking that unless you can get the donor car for basically nothing, you might be better served just going with new stuff, all things considered.

BTW - that's one of my favorite issues to re-read in the, umm... 'Library,' because I really dig the '69 - especially, its wheels.

 

[Tubo]

IRT the Coyote set-up, you might consider just getting a Ford Motorsports 'crate' Coyote engine and ECU. According to an article I read in Mustang Monthly sometime last year, the ECU controlling the engine has some kind of 'defeat' built-in to prevent someone from transplanting the engine - with OR without the ECU (I'm guessing BCU or something else entirely controls this).

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicles/mump_1202_1969_gateway_classic_mustang_coyote_wild/viewall.html

Gateway Classic might also have their kit together by now as well.

I'm thinking that unless you can get the donor car for basically nothing, you might be better served just going with new stuff, all things considered.

BTW - that's one of my favorite issues to re-read in the, umm... 'Library,' because I really dig the '69 - especially, its wheels.

The Coyote crate is real world $5800 then add $1200 for harness and ECU, and here is the glaring deal breaker for me. FRPP harness & ECU do not support 6R80 6spd automatic trans.

and I want the select shift which wasn't available till 2013 model. So I'm aware I may have to wait for a bit. wrecked Mustang GT might be had for $8k or less. I have some friends who buy at auction

Having a complete donor car will allow use of the entire drive train, plus plenty of extra goodies I can also swap into the 73 Vert. I saw a 70 with a 10 dash in it..Radio, A/C, insturments.

Much like my 2+2 there won't be many origional pars remaining on the 73. All the 2+2 has is; the unibody, two front fenders, the axle carrier, and a very few interior pannels.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Sounds like you got a plan. Good luck with it! Sounds like a crazy-cool conversion. Be interesting to see it done in one of our model years.

 

[droptop73]

So in the interim to fix a loose center steering issue, I'm thinking bout replacing the steering box. Ball joints tie rods, and ideler seem to be in good condition as is strut rod rubber. My Brother was the PO, and I can see him having replaced most of the steering replacables.

As long as I'm gonna replace the steerng box anyway, I've sourced an OTS Cardone 93-96 Grand Cherokee pn # 27-7582, fer $125 shipped & done(no core chg). Seller wont budge off the price.

Soooo Mr. Droptop73, in your experience. Is this an approriate $$, and izzt likely to be whats needed to cure the loose center steering issue?? I always seem to get into WYAI's...any other feed back iz apperciated.

TIA

Tubo

That seems like a good price for a rebuilt box. I have heard good things about Cardone remans. As far as installation, from the research I have done the box should bolt into our cars. The steering coupler may need to be "adapted" from other components, it depends on the splines. The original Mustang pitman arm should be a direct fit to the JGC box. A set of either adapter hoses or a set of fittings from Lee will be required, the JGC box has metric o-ring fittings ant the original box has inverted flare fittings. I have sourced a used box from a local pick a part and am cleaning it up. I have not started the install yet.

Here are the best sources for information I have found on the subject. Sorry for the "brand X" reading material! LOL

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/steering-box-update_topic5157_page1.html

http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref29.html

For fitting adapters,

http://www.lee-powersteering.com/

Please share any information you find/figure out. I am having fun driving mine and am waiting for a crummy weekend to really get into figuring this out for sure. The information looks promising.

 

[Tubo]

.....the ECU controlling the engine has some kind of 'defeat' built-in to prevent someone from transplanting the engine - .........

Yeah Eric, the defeat is part of the PATS(Passive Anti-Theft System) Everyting electric is tied together, break a link and nothing works. In reading bout how to make this conversion work, a grounding cable from a specific build date, was needed to work with the donor engine's VIN code.

Thats why having a Donor can be important, so you have the whole system to begin with.

Gateway is prolly going to be my source for front suspension, I hear they have a kit (for big cars) that will use the electric power steering. Wont have to reverse engineer a PS pump mount fer the Coyote.

Yup should be educational.

Tubo

......That seems like a good price for a rebuilt box. I have heard good things about Cardone remans. As far as installation, from the research I have done the box should bolt into our cars. The steering coupler may need to be "adapted" from other components, it depends on the splines. The original Mustang pitman arm should be a direct fit to the JGC box. A set of either adapter hoses or a set of fittings from Lee will be required, the JGC box has metric o-ring fittings ant the original box has inverted flare fittings......Please share any information you find/figure out. I am having fun driving mine and am waiting for a crummy weekend to really get into figuring this out for sure. The information looks promising.

Good!! That's jibing with the bit of info I've found so far, however your links I haven't seen as yet, TY's. And I was curious bout Cardone quality. So I'll go ahead and pull the trigger on the "deal".

O'course I'll be happy to share anything I learn, Butt it may take several Crummy weekends to get to it, Hehheh.

Tubo

 

[Mister 4x4]

.....the ECU controlling the engine has some kind of 'defeat' built-in to prevent someone from transplanting the engine - .........

Yeah Eric, the defeat is part of the PATS(Passive Anti-Theft System) Everyting electric is tied together, break a link and nothing works. In reading bout how to make this conversion work, a grounding cable from a specific build date, was needed to work with the donor engine's VIN code.

Thats why having a Donor can be important, so you have the whole system to begin with.

Gateway is prolly going to be my source for front suspension, I hear they have a kit (for big cars) that will use the electric power steering. Wont have to reverse engineer a PS pump mount fer the Coyote.

Yup should be educational.

Tubo

Yeah... "PATS." I remember reading something about that as well. Sounds like you're amassing quite the pile of research info.

I think one of the biggest advantages Gateway Classic had going is that Dynacorn makes 'notched' shock towers for the '69-'70. It probably wouldn't be such a big deal with a completely new "Mustang II"-style front suspension set-up to simply make the modifications to the existing shock towers, but dang - that's a lot of R&D and work to make that happen (another reason I'm bummed about the industry not showing as much love to our models as the previous years).

Keep us posted, please. I'm anxious to see this all come together. ::thumb::

 

[droptop73]

Crummy weekends... EXACTLY! Let's share as much information as possible on making this swap work. The difference on other brands of cars seems to be pretty significant in steering response and road feel.

Rather than the MII front end do some research on the CorteX system or the Detroit Speed pieces and whether they could be adapted to our cars. I am not sure how the frame rail differences would afect the install.

 

[Wolverine]

Take a look at the rag joint before doing the steering box.

If it has never been replaced, I would bet it is pretty sloppy.

If you don't know what a rag joint is, it is a piece of tire rubber that is actually engaging your steering wheel to the steering linkage.

$10, one hour.

 

[Tubo]

Picked up the Grand Cherokee PS box at my Buddy MustangSteve's house, Friday. MS, myself & several others from his forum, went to The Texas Dream Cruise together.

I'm back home now and will start installation of the box soon. Doesn't look to be too terrible hard. Humph thats the ones that get difficult though, ain't they.

Photos & dialog will be fourth coming.

 

[bkdunha]

Follow this link. This is the guy who did my bodywork and they are installing a Coyote in a 73 vert. This details some of the changes required. He really likes modding cars so I am sure if you sent him an email or gave him a call he could offer some more pointers. His name is Allen Shepley.

http://www.mustangcentralga.com/coyote-purr-dee.html

 

[droptop73]

Well... I have the front of my car on jackstands working on installing the roller perches and did a quick comparison between the JGC steering box and the bolt pattern on my 73. It does not look like the JGC box will fit. I need to do some more figuring to see if new mounting points could be added. At this point I'm pretty discouraged about the box upgrade.

 

[Totalled]

Red Head steering box time.

 

[droptop73]

If I can't make the JGC box work, I'll probably have Lee build a 12:1 box. I didn't want to spend that kind of money. It looks like 2 out of 3 bolts have a chance of lining up. Maybe all is not lost. I've never been afraid of cutting sh@t up.

 

[Tubo]

Past couple of posts, and I started checking more. I suspect I jumped before collecting all pertnant information on Saginaw boxes.

Now I'm purdy sure the box in the vert is a Variable, and now I know bout "Redhead's" existance.

Too late to check on their prices as we're into Holiday time.

Anyone have a guesstimate of $$ for a rebuild of the existing box.

 

[Totalled]

$269.37 with exchange for me. I drove up there, and am local, so that's with sales tax, without shipping. Core is $100. If you had them build your box, there wouldn't be a core, obviously...

 

[Tubo]

Yeah I talked with the "Redhead" folks today. By the time shipping a new box and returning the core, I'd be out bout $300.

IF Only one bolt hole doesn't line up,meaning two are good, the JGC box, which I've already purchased $115, is looking real good as I've confirmed my saganaw is the 4:1 variety, non variable.

Events have placed the 73 in one shop to calibrate/re-jet the Edelbrock, with immeidate transfer to shop two. Where the Vert will recieve a quick 'bandaid" paint job. Should be back home a week from today.

No! Wait!....Dang, I just jinxed the return date by mentioning it, Didn't I??

So it might be home in two weeks, at which time the JGC box wil be contended with.

 

[droptop73]

Keep us posted on the progress with the JGC box. Unscientifically it looks to me like the forward most lower bolt will be at or just below the frame rail. I'm thinking about welding a sleeve into the frame for attachment.