Help Me Get This Thing Started

I brought a new puppy home: 71 Mach 1, it's supposed to be an M code 351C (but it has 2bbl heads and a weiand xcellerator intake), C6... It has an edelbrock 1405 600cfm carb (with electric choke) and a Mallory electronic distributor. The ignition wiring is all cut up and hacked, but I do appear to be getting spark. The car hasn't run for 9 years, but was supposedly driven on and off a trailer, so I'm assuming that it was in running condition 9 years ago. Here's the big problem- I'm pretty experienced with cars, but I've never owned anything with a carb.

It had a bunch of broken stuff that I fixed:

• Starter wiring loose and against the headers
  
• no fuel filter, installed clear generic filter between the pump and the carb
  
• broken off throttle plate screws- pulled and replaced
  
• Cleaned up the inside of the carb- took the metering rods out, took the top half off, soaked everything in carb cleaner overnight. Wiped off/cleaned everything I could reach
  
• drained as much of the 9y/o gas as I could, disconnected the line at the tank fitting with the back of the car downhill, put a bit more gas in it and drained that out, blew out the lines all the way to the carb fitting before reassembling. Put 5 gallons of fresh gas in it.
  
• pulled the plugs, cleaned them off and gapped them (they looked almost new but covered in soot, I wonder if they were cold or if the last few times it was started it was just idled for a few minutes
  
• while I had the plugs out I sprayed a little Kroil into each bore hoping that any stuck/rusty rings would be loosened
  
• cleaned up the plug wires (don't worry, pulled one a a time and labled them, didn't get them mixed up)
  
• new battery
  
• squirted gas into the fuel inlet fitting till it ran out before hooking up the line (I couldn't figure out how exactly the bowls are vented on this thing)
  

I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

Right now it cranks but doesn't start, it sounds like it's getting compression, I think I had one kick that sounded like it was trying to run, but that might have been carb cleaner and was very weak. My concerns:

• Installed a clear fuel filter, it took _a lot_ of cranking before I saw any fuel in it at all and a lot more before it was mostly full. I'm used to FI where everything is full before it starts. How long should the mechanical fuel pump take to fill the lines to the carb?
  
• I see fuel in the wells that the secondary door weights hang in, is that normal?
  
• I don't think I'm getting an accelerator pump shot at all, I'm assuming that the 2 nozzles on the inside of the front bores are the pump nozzles, they're dry when I pump the throttle
  

Is this all normal? What should I check? Suggestions? When I messed with the carb I was careful to put everything back like it was before I started, I didn't touch the idle mixture screws... should I just set it to a baseline (I keep hearing 2 turns out on them is a good starting point)?

Change your fuel pump. Or the line is restricted from trash even though you blew it out. Sound like the fuel is just not being delivered and also, you have issues in your carb. Do you have access to a known good carb?

Good luck potty training the new pup! LOL

spray some starter fluid in the carb and/or drizzle a little gas in there. Put the air cleaner back on and see if it 'fires'. If it does you know you have a fuel/carb issue.

I don't have access to a known good carb. Seems like almost all my car guy friends are pretty much in the same boat as I am, only FI.

Should the pump be moving more gas than that? I kind of feel that it should but I don't know for sure. I was actually quite surprised how slow the fuel came out of the tank using gravity. It took maybe 10 min to empty out just under 5 gallons.

Where do I drizzle gas? I have not tried any ether (starting fluid) but I did spray the carb down with carb cleaner while cranking (I've managed to make a lawnmower run like that with no gas getting to the carb), but barely got it to sputter.

Carb cleaner will kill it so you need to use start fluid in the primary bores. Do you have a spark plug tester? They can be bought for a few dollars to check fire. But sounds like a fuel problem to me

I stuck a screwdriver in the primary and let it sit next to the manifold and watched it arc. Then I did it in a couple of the plug wires just to make sure that it wasn't a problem with the cap/rotor. Come to think of it, I don't know that I looked under the cap to make sure that the contacts are at all in decent shape, I know I have spark but I don't know that I've got spark on anything but a couple of the driver's side plugs...

I guess I need to pull the cap and go get some ether

I stuck a screwdriver in the primary and let it sit next to the manifold and watched it arc. Then I did it in a couple of the plug wires just to make sure that it wasn't a problem with the cap/rotor. Come to think of it, I don't know that I looked under the cap to make sure that the contacts are at all in decent shape, I know I have spark but I don't know that I've got spark on anything but a couple of the driver's side plugs...

I guess I need to pull the cap and go get some ether

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Or as stated earlier just dribble a little gas down the carb. what color was the spark after the cap? yellow, blue, white?

Again, can someone confirm how fast this thing should be pumping gas? Is it like a fuel injected car which I can pull the fuel line and it will pump a couple of gallons in a min or so? Like I'm expecting that cranking for 10 seconds I should fill a cup easily, I'm not getting nearly that flow. It took 5-10 maybe 10 or more second cranking "sessions" to even see fuel in the fuel filter.


Spark yellow blue or white... don't know, always read about that test but stopped looking since it does not apply to most electronic ignitions and never worked on anything else.

Now that I'm thinking about it, it's a mallory aftermarket distributor, all the wiring to it is weird, but I assumed it's working since the PO said he started it at some point 9-10 years ago. I thought it was weird that what I think is an electronic ignition in the distributor is using a conventional coil (I know that can work) and _I think_ has an inline resistor (at least it's still mounted on the front of the head with wiring going to it, I haven't tried figuring out what the jumble of wiring actually is/is doing)

Again, can someone confirm how fast this thing should be pumping gas? Is it like a fuel injected car which I can pull the fuel line and it will pump a couple of gallons in a min or so? Like I'm expecting that cranking for 10 seconds I should fill a cup easily, I'm not getting nearly that flow. It took 5-10 maybe 10 or more second cranking "sessions" to even see fuel in the fuel filter.

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mechanical fuel pumps run 4 to 10 pounds of pressure on average. not like EFI which exceeds 35

I know what to expect for pressure (I figured 3-6, but close enough) but not what to expect for flow (you can disconnect an FI fuel line, turn the key and shoot gas across the garage easily, even gm TBI setups that run around 10psi will fire a pretty decent stream if you have a leak)

Yeah, that seems too slow. Since it is a mechanical pump it will 'squirt' for each rotation of the engine. You should be able to get a few ounces out of each squirt. It's possible the fuel pump is bad. The diaphram may have dried out over the years of non-use. Easy to swap out.

You should check the oil now too. Sometimes a broken fuel pump will dump gas into the crank case.

When we say 'dribble gas down the carb' we mean about a 2 or 3 ounces right down the top of the carb. You sould do this with the throttle pulled wide open and the choke open (so most of the gas goes down inside and past the carb and ends up on the intake manifold floor). Then, and this is important, put the air clearn assembly back on and then try to start. It should run for just a few seconds.

I strongly suggest not trying to dribble gas/shoot carb cleaner or starting fluid while cranking the engine. It's a great way to get a backfire which can take off the hair on your fingers (if you are lucky) or actually catch the engine on fire (now that it is covered with carb cleaner). Always have a Fire Extinguisher or two ready.

fire extinguisher... yea, sitting right by the front bumper since last night. A live hose too, but I know that's probably not the best way of dealing with it. I'd be pissed if my new toy melted right in front of the house.

Backfire- yea, I remember being around 12 sitting in the middle of the road holding the choke open on my mom's chevette while my dad cranked it (it ended up being the timing belt jumped a tooth) and getting a nice fireball. It's tramatic going to school w/o eyebrows. I'm assuming the air cleaner is to control the flames if I get a backfire? Didn't get an air cleaner with it... I wish I had one sitting around.

Went and grabbed a can of ether and a remote starter switch. 3 seconds of ether would run it for about 20seconds, and run well (I think it has a small header leak from the back, I got a little puff when it started but couldn't hear it running). I tried it 4x, and it ran well each time. And the fuel filter is no more full... I'm thinking I have a dead fuel pump (yea, I know, ether doesn't mean that the carb is right, but I think it should be close).

Any preferences WRT to fuel pumps? Is an Aertex stock replacement enough for mild performance use or do I really want to order a holly or edelbrock?


so while I'm thinking about it I'm assuming that the idle stop screws are at an OK point for it to run if it starts on ether, but I don't know that someone hasn't messed with the idle mixture screws between now and when it ran, what do you set them to as a baseline to get them running (I know how to set them by rpm or vacuum once you have it running)?


To give you guys an idea this is what the thing looks like right now. the size limit is a bit small but you might be able to see how much after all this the fuel filter has filled.

I brought a new puppy home: 71 Mach 1, it's supposed to be an M code 351C (but it has 2bbl heads and a weiand xcellerator intake), C6...

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Congrats on the new puppy. It's not uncommon to run across an M code where at some time or or other in it's life the owner switched over to 2V heads. My 71 M code had 2v heads on it when I purchased it. Explaination was for better low end torque and ability to run lower octane fuel. In any case I was able to locate a set of close chambered 4V, date period correct heads from Don of Ohio Mustang Supply and plan on putting them on after cruising season is over. Your Vin should show that the frame is an M code then just verify the partial Vin on the engine matches (partial VIn# stamped just below driver's side head, back of engine), if it does you have a M code engine that someone during it's life made the 2V swap of heads and intake, if the engine Vin doesn't match the frame, someone switched out the whole engine.

Good luck on the starting issue, sounds like you've narrowed it down to being a possible fuel pump failure, could also be a restricted fuel line?

Jim

I'm running an OE replacement pump from Autozone. For a mild performance build you don't need anything fancy.

Right, a fuel pump from autozone is cheap and should do the job unless you run some high RPM's for sustained periods. But right now your goal is to get it running.

Do take a check of the oil. Smell and feel it. If the fuel pump is dumping gas into the oil you want to do an oil change before running it much more.

As stated, I'd get a stock original fuel pump for $20 or so and check the oil - it should be easy to see if there's fuel in there.

If the new fuel pump won't get it running, it should fill or partially fill the fuel filter. The carb would be the culprit I'd look at next.

I have a clear fuel filter and stock pump and I never see the fuel filter 'fill up' with gas. It always looks about half full.