3 or 4 row Al radiator ????

[1973stang]

Hi All,

Coming for some sage advise again.

Which one should I get 3 row or 4 row Al radiator ??? Looking at Champion cooling.

I have the stock (original) 3 row Brass radiator (which was rodded recently)

Yesterday was hot in the area (100+). Even on surface streets the car heat-up to 210F and stayed there (25 mile driving)....did not go higher.

The weekend before, went upto Malibu thru' the canyons. Going up the hill (a bit steep)...the temp reached 205...but promptly dropped to 180 on decent.

Under normal conditions (not hot or high heat)...the temp hovers around 185-195F

Robert-shaw 180 Thermostat.

Carb was adjusted using vac guage to slight rich....vac of 17-18

Fan shroud..properly set.

fan w/clutch

Rush

 

[MechEng]

Hi All,

Coming for some sage advise again.

Which one should I get 3 row or 4 row Al radiator ??? Looking at Champion cooling.

I have the stock (original) 3 row Brass radiator (which was rodded recently)

Yesterday was hot in the area (100+). Even on surface streets the car heat-up to 210F and stayed there (25 mile driving)....did not go higher.

The weekend before, went upto Malibu thru' the canyons. Going up the hill (a bit steep)...the temp reached 205...but promptly dropped to 180 on decent.

Under normal conditions (not hot or high heat)...the temp hovers around 185-195F

Robert-shaw 180 Thermostat.

Carb was adjusted using vac guage to slight rich....vac of 17-18

Fan shroud..properly set.

fan w/clutch

Rush

Is there a major price difference? If not I don't see why you wouldn't go with the 4 row radiator to get as much cooling as possible.

Also, just to ask, you mention the thermostat, but if you have a 351 Cleveland, are you sure it's the proper kind that seals against the bypass plate?

 

[caspianwendell]

My 68 had a 4 core and still overheated and a couple of guys at a show explained to me that the bigger the cores, the better the flow, and that stacking cores in front of each other really doesn't help. They told me to buy a high po 2 core so I did...never had an over heat problem again.

 

[rottenralph]

I had a 3 row in my 65 here in Memphis and it never had a problem in Memphis heat. I have a 3 row in my Mach as well but havent driven it much. Will remedy that soon. On a side note, my 65 did not even have or need a shroud.

 

[72HCODE]

the 4 row can get you into clearance issues with width.

i don't know what you did to your original rad, you mentioned it was rodded.

here is what i did.

I had a junky reproduction 3 row rad that Leaked.

buddy gave me a Junk A/C car 26" 2-1/4" 72 rad with correct D2Z part number.

I think it was a 3 row i'm not 100% sure this was like 8 years ago.

I took it to the rad shop and i told them i had a 351 Cleveland that was going to be .60 over and i know they are prone to overheating.(turned out the engine shop only went .40 over bore) they talked me into doing a HF 3 row core, which had near the cooling of a 4 row but in a 3 row package. he also upgraded my Trans cooler.

so they used the frame, custom ordered the HF(high efficiency) copper core and made it look like a 72 part but with modern cooling fins in the rad. once you bombed the entire thing radiator black you would never know anything was done to it.

anyway once in the car with the correct Air defector in top of the rad that A/C cars used, my car ran well below 190degrees even with the A/C going on a 95 degree day. in front of my rad i have the A/C condenser as well, its a 300HP dynoed 351 Cleveland.

food for thought.

many guys go with 4 rows. there is debate about aluminum rads not cooling well. i feel aluminum rads are just good for weight if you want cooling you have to go with copper.

now i have a 5 blade flex fan as well and the stock shroud.

 

[TommyK]

You have to be careful when adding rows to a radiator in an attempt to enhance cooling capability. Those extra rows can reduce the rate of flow through the radiator which can actually reduce cooling capacity. If you go for the 4 row you may want to consider a high flow water pump but here again you want to be careful because some high flow pumps actually flow less than a stock pump at idle which is where a lot of people experience temperature control issues.

Also, copper/brass conducts/transfers heat more efficiently than aluminum.

The most critical characteristic affecting radiator performance is fin design and count. Louvered fins work best. 12-16 fins per inch is considered optimal.

 

[mdan575]

Personally I'll go for the aluminum radiator as a replacement over stock any day. While the Aluminum may not displace as much heat as a stock copper radiator at the same thickness. Aluminum out shines copper in its strength. Allowing for a much thicker stronger better flowing radiator which can displace alot more heat than stock. Besides price there is a good reason every major manufacturer has switched to aluminum radiators. They simply work. 72hcode is correct though too thick and clearance becomes and issue.

Way to much old time voodoo is still being put out that doesn't stand the test of science.

After isntalling a known good flowing radiator stock or aluminum. I think alot more attention needs to be paid to having proper shroud, fan, and other supporting items to direct the flow of air. To any people over look those and wonder why there vehicle doesn't run right.

 

[rottenralph]

What is the correct temperature running range for these 351 C motors?

 

[72HCODE]

192 is considered the standard, that puts the cylinder heads at the correct operating temperature.

the stock gauge inside the car would be either centered or just to the right of center.

its suppose to give the right amount of heat for emissions and also to activate the original Stove pipe choke and to activate the Bi-metal switch located on the air cleaner base for the Warm/Cold air intake vacuum motor.

160, 180, thermos are also available.

180 i was told was the thermo used for a Southwest car(texas) since it could get to over 100 degrees in those states then cars with A/C compressors would be given the 180 degree thermo, sometimes they would swap the thermo and spark plugs between summer and winter operation. on average the outside air temp was 10-20 degrees hotter in the south west so at 192 the engines would already be overheating before the thermos kicked on for the rads.

so summer would be autolite 24s with a 180 thermo and winter 25s with a 192 thermo.

160 was around for drag racing i was told or people would remove the thermos completely, then you get into the debate about the thermo restriction plates that sit under the thermo.

Another option for an overheating car is dropping the spark plug heat range 1-2 levels, they will drop the cylinder heads 20-30 degrees many times.

 

[rocket366]

Funny I just had this conversation with my siater when we too the Boss 427 stang to the Car Show in Martinez.

The temp was hovering around 170-190 and I told her that is wrong.

It's all about an EXCHANGE of coolant controlled by the THERMOSTAT.

I've had a few muscle street cars and a couple bracket drag cars and all ran AMERICAN MADE thermostats rated for 180d.

With good components (radiator, fan, fan shroud and thermostat) this is what you'll see with a mechanical temp gauge...

motor will get to 180 then stat opens motor drops to 160 motor warms up to 180 drops to 160 repeat.

The Idea is the coolant HAS to stay IN THE RADIATOR for some time to cool before it is exchanged with the coolant in the block.

It is A CYCLE! and you have to have a good thermostat not the junk stats that barely open or partially open when they feel like it

um cheep Oriental ones?

Regards

Paul

 

[mdan575]

Funny I just had this conversation with my siater when we too the Boss 427 stang to the Car Show in Martinez.

The temp was hovering around 170-190 and I told her that is wrong.

It's all about an EXCHANGE of coolant controlled by the THERMOSTAT.

I've had a few muscle street cars and a couple bracket drag cars and all ran AMERICAN MADE thermostats rated for 180d.

With good components (radiator, fan, fan shroud and thermostat) this is what you'll see with a mechanical temp gauge...

motor will get to 180 then stat opens motor drops to 160 motor warms up to 180 drops to 160 repeat.

The Idea is the coolant HAS to stay IN THE RADIATOR for some time to cool before it is exchanged with the coolant in the block.

It is A CYCLE! and you have to have a good thermostat not the junk stats that barely open or partially open when they feel like it

um cheep Oriental ones?

Regards

Paul

God knows aint that the truth. I test virtually all of them these days prior to install. I can't count the number of bad ones I have seen straight out of the box. Fail to open, Fail to open fully, Fail to open progressively.

Such a simple item that has been in production for so long. Yet quality of workmanship is garbage these days.

 

[MeZapU]

Way back when I bought my 4-core bras radiator, The three core was $230 and the four core was $250. I paid the $20 extra. My temps never get above 180deg until I come to a rest. Then when temps get above 200 my electric fan kicks in and keeps everything cool.

 

[rottenralph]

Are shrouds factory parts or an aftermarket options. Mine does not currently have one but I bought one with ford factory markings and part numbers. How much difference does the shroud make?

 

[Kit Sullivan]

The fan shroud is far more important than many realize, and the fan itself, must be the correct size for the shroud also.

The blades should be no more than 1/2" from the edge of the shroud opening, and the fan should just barely be even with or even sticking out of the back of the shroud a bit. This is what creates the vaccum of air that is pulled through the fan. Having no shroud will ( obviously) not create a vacuum, and a mis-sized or mis-placed fan will let pressure leak out throgh the shroud opening, again preventing a vacuum and therefore not drawing air through the radiator. These parameter affect low-speed and idling cooling.

Concerning driving and higher-speed cooling, the top and side edges on the FRONT side of the radiator should be blocked off also, to keep air from bleeding off around the radiator, instead of being forced through it.

The plastic piece than runs across the top of the radiator and also the top of the core support is very important, but it is typically missing on most older vehicles...including old Mustangs. It helps to block incoming air from "bleeding off" through the opening between the radiator and the core support, and encourages it to flow through the radiator.

A propely set up and functioning stock cooling system is very effective at keeping most engines operating in the correct temperature. It is the little things that cause so much ill-informed overkill in a lot of high-dollar cooling system upgrades.