351C Tear Down - Crank and Cam removal

[timsweet]

I'm hoping to get the crank and cam removed this week.

I don't see to find many videos dealing with the 351C. Any hints or pitfalls I should look out for?

Thanks

Tim

 

[Don C]

There are a lot of discussions on this forum about 351C builds, all you have to do is search for them.

From what I have seen of how to videos most of them are misleading, if not downright wrong.

Best advice, get the set of Ford manuals for your car, not very expensive on a disk, then you'll have all the right procedures basics and all of the specs. Then, use other's experiences on this forum to decide how you want to proceed.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

When removing the harmonic balancer, I like to loosen the bolt but leave it in place to protect the threads in the crank Basically, back it out a 1/4 inch, pull a 1/4 and repeat til it comes off.

With the front cover off, and the lifters removed, you'll need to remove the timing chain set, and there is also a retainer plate for the cam (make sure to keep up with it, you'll likely reuse it in a rebuild) Sometimes you need a gear puller, but I have been able to pull them by walking them off.

If the top of the bore has a significant ring groove, there is a tool for cutting it away- I have never had to use one.

With the block upside down, Preferably on an engine stand, remove the oil pump and then rotate the engine around until you can undo the rod cap nuts from each piston. They may not separate without a little force, You can get a wooden dowel to press against the back of the piston and a light rap or two should drive them out

once all pistons are removed, remove the main bearing caps (you'll probably need to give them a rap with a deadblow mallet after unbolting them) and lift the crank out.

Cranks, if they are going to be reused should be stored standing on end, not lying on their sides

Rod caps must be kept with their respective rods if they are going to be reused.

If you plan to reuse the cam, try not to let it bang against the cam bearings on the way out.

I put the block on the ground after removing the crank with the front facing up so the cam can be lifted straight up and out.

If not reusing the cam or bearings this is unnecessary

 

[piper62j]

Use a ridge reamer to clean to tops of the cylinders if there is a ridge.. Caution,, If the ridge is deep enough, you will crack the ring lands on the pistons when removing them.. bring the piston all the way down in the cylinder and stuff a rag on top to prevent metal filings from scoring when you do remove the piston. Otherwise, if you can safely remove the pistons without damage, use the ridge reamer before installing the pistons and new rings. They will slide down easily during the installation.

 

[TommyK]

Make sure you mark the main caps before removal. They have to go back where they were.

 

[mustang7173]

timsweet

Here is the DYI website on some how to Build 351 Cleveland

http://diyford.com/category/ford-351-cleveland-engine/

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/26378/

Thanks,

mustang7173

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Here is a link to some info on the Cleveland. https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/351-cleveland-lubrication/

I cannot say everything is right or wrong in the write up just more info to review.

I only have a couple comments that I will make is that any engine with wet lifter galley, hydraulic lifters, is make sure the bores in the engine block are not worn oversize. I do not have the spec here so I cannot tell you the correct diameter for the bore or the lifter. I do know that when I worked engine shop my boss considered that one of the most critical areas of concern to prevent loosing too much oil around the lifters thus starving the bearings. He had contacts at the time and could hone all the lifer bores to a given size and they would make the lifters to fit the bores. His tolerance for hole size was +.0001" - .000. using a dial bore gauge to verify. Again I don't have the clearance spec to give but your builder should have that. I have seen the Cleveland lifter bores sleeved with bronze or brass sleeves. It would be much easier in my opinion to hone the bores to a given size and have the lifters hard chrome plated and ground to the correct diameter than to add the sleeves. I guess it depends on what you builder has for equipment.

For a street engine not really going to make much difference what they do to the lifters.

My only other advice is don't go overboard with a racing cam that will not live on the street. They are made to run at racing rpm for a short life span and not for cruising around on the street. Heavy valve spring loads beat the valves and seats up. Racing parts do not necessarily make a durable engine. Three angle valve jobs with narrow seats get better flow but will beat down much faster than stock. There are always goods and bad from any combination you pick. If you are trying to drop a tenth of a second in the quarter mile then pushing the limits is what you do. If you want durability and trouble free more stock the better.

A good example of a non wet lifter galley is the 427 side oiler. there is a oil galley down the side of the block for the bearings to feed off of so they never get starved.

Most engine failures are due to abuse, missed gear and over rev and bend or break valve. If you are going to punish the engine for sure add a rev limiter. Can be part of your MSD or ignition package you use, cheap insurance.

Have fun with the build and I am sure we will see more info in future. The whole idea of the forum is to share info not to agree or disagree with others views. It will be up to you to sort it all out and make a decision. Don't you wish there was just one way to build it, lol?

 

[timsweet]

What's cool is they are stamped with arrows...awesome!!!

Make sure you mark the main caps before removal. They have to go back where they were.

 

[timsweet]

Thanks David. Good tips.

As I tore the engine down, the cylinders look pretty good. The pistons are a mess - at least the very tops. There was plenty of oil but a lot of the bearings were grooved pretty bad and the crank as well.

So since every was well lubricated at time I took it part, I can only assume that someone had run it with not much oil in it at some point.

I'll post some pics up over on my blog.

Here is a link to some info on the Cleveland. https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/351-cleveland-lubrication/

I cannot say everything is right or wrong in the write up just more info to review.

I only have a couple comments that I will make is that any engine with wet lifter galley, hydraulic lifters, is make sure the bores in the engine block are not worn oversize. I do not have the spec here so I cannot tell you the correct diameter for the bore or the lifter. I do know that when I worked engine shop my boss considered that one of the most critical areas of concern to prevent loosing too much oil around the lifters thus starving the bearings. He had contacts at the time and could hone all the lifer bores to a given size and they would make the lifters to fit the bores. His tolerance for hole size was +.0001" - .000. using a dial bore gauge to verify. Again I don't have the clearance spec to give but your builder should have that. I have seen the Cleveland lifter bores sleeved with bronze or brass sleeves. It would be much easier in my opinion to hone the bores to a given size and have the lifters hard chrome plated and ground to the correct diameter than to add the sleeves. I guess it depends on what you builder has for equipment.

For a street engine not really going to make much difference what they do to the lifters.

My only other advice is don't go overboard with a racing cam that will not live on the street. They are made to run at racing rpm for a short life span and not for cruising around on the street. Heavy valve spring loads beat the valves and seats up. Racing parts do not necessarily make a durable engine. Three angle valve jobs with narrow seats get better flow but will beat down much faster than stock. There are always goods and bad from any combination you pick. If you are trying to drop a tenth of a second in the quarter mile then pushing the limits is what you do. If you want durability and trouble free more stock the better.

A good example of a non wet lifter galley is the 427 side oiler. there is a oil galley down the side of the block for the bearings to feed off of so they never get starved.

Most engine failures are due to abuse, missed gear and over rev and bend or break valve. If you are going to punish the engine for sure add a rev limiter. Can be part of your MSD or ignition package you use, cheap insurance.

Have fun with the build and I am sure we will see more info in future. The whole idea of the forum is to share info not to agree or disagree with others views. It will be up to you to sort it all out and make a decision. Don't you wish there was just one way to build it, lol?

 

[timsweet]

Both good sites. Thanks

timsweet

Here is the DYI website on some how to Build 351 Cleveland

http://diyford.com/category/ford-351-cleveland-engine/

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/26378/

Thanks,

mustang7173

 

[timsweet]

Thanks Jeff.

I've got the harmonic balancer off and will remove the cam and crank in a day or so.

Pistons are out. Everything was original Ford parts. Most were dated 1970 rods included.

Tim

When removing the harmonic balancer, I like to loosen the bolt but leave it in place to protect the threads in the crank Basically, back it out a 1/4 inch, pull a 1/4 and repeat til it comes off.

With the front cover off, and the lifters removed, you'll need to remove the timing chain set, and there is also a retainer plate for the cam (make sure to keep up with it, you'll likely reuse it in a rebuild) Sometimes you need a gear puller, but I have been able to pull them by walking them off.

If the top of the bore has a significant ring groove, there is a tool for cutting it away- I have never had to use one.

With the block upside down, Preferably on an engine stand, remove the oil pump and then rotate the engine around until you can undo the rod cap nuts from each piston. They may not separate without a little force, You can get a wooden dowel to press against the back of the piston and a light rap or two should drive them out

once all pistons are removed, remove the main bearing caps (you'll probably need to give them a rap with a deadblow mallet after unbolting them) and lift the crank out.

Cranks, if they are going to be reused should be stored standing on end, not lying on their sides

Rod caps must be kept with their respective rods if they are going to be reused.

If you plan to reuse the cam, try not to let it bang against the cam bearings on the way out.

I put the block on the ground after removing the crank with the front facing up so the cam can be lifted straight up and out.

If not reusing the cam or bearings this is unnecessary

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Tim,

Ford is good about marking their rods and mains with position in the assembly. Chevy did not mark some of theirs and you had to mark during tear down. Even back in the day of the flathead the rods were stamped.

I am dying to get started on one of mine just can't get the garage up with all the rain. Don't want to hang insulation up to soak in water for days. They say rain all week here.

 

[Pegleg]

I am dying to get started on one of mine just can't get the garage up with all the rain. Don't want to hang insulation up to soak in water for days. They say rain all week here.

We got same problem in the U.K. This year mother nature skipped August and went from July to September weather

 

[timsweet]

I'd like to get the memberships thoughts on the condition of the crank. It's is heavily grooved.

 

[computercarguy]

If you can feel it with your fingernail, it needs to be machined.

 

[timsweet]

As I mentioned, some of them are pretty deep. How much is too much machining? What does do to the rebuild? All custom at that point?

 

[computercarguy]

.10 undersized is fine, .20 undersized if you are keeping the engine mostly stock but if you are going crazy with power you may want to replace it if the machining gets to .20.

Just a quick search at the online site for autozone shows they sell a crank kit for $260 after core exchange. If you have a access to a machinist who has pride in their work, you might go that route as you might get better and consistant clearances. Plus you will know what you have as you have no voice in what you get in a kit.

If money isn't as big a consideration and you are going to build a monster, you could get a new aftermarket crank.

 

[basstrix]

The journals need to be mic'd and checked for diameter and out of round. From the looks of your video, grinding undersize is in order. Make sure you get the rods checked. If you're going to install 180ksi rod bolts, just get them resized.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Grinding the diameter of the journals down is not a problem with Ford engines. In fact the smaller dia. reduces the surface speed of the bearing. Ford used very large diameter journals and there is no reason to worry about grinding .020 or if you can find them .030" from mains or rods.

It looks like there was lots of crap in your engine that ate the crank and bearings up. You want to have the entire engine, block, heads, crank and rods magna fluxed to check for any cracks. If no cracks then go to the machining. Go with new ARP bolts for sure.

A good engine shop should check the rods for twist and size and correct as needed. I would go the extra step of dynamic balance also. Everything from the harmonic balancer to the drive shaft should be balanced.

I do not like some of the kits they sell. They weld up a stock crank and grind back to nominal diameter which only induces stress and possible failure points into the engine. They do what is called spray welding and that sucks in my opinion. We tried it on tooling and it was very sorry and did not perform as they said.

If your block is numbers matching you want to try to keep it for sure.

Just my thoughts.