408 stroker 73 mach

[Muswagon]

Cleveland I have is a 2V, tired engine. I also have a 351W block at the ready. Going full rebuild with 10.50 to 11 compression, good heads, etc I cannot help but think the Windsor is the much cheaper route.

So two questions then;

1 - Cleveland or Windsor? If I go Cleveland, the heads that I think I must go with are the Trick Flow, which I believe to be a closed chamber 2V style, much like CHI heads but will work with my perform manifold. Unless I get Chinese junk (as internet searches have informed me about Powerhouse and Procomp), the Trick Flo seem to be the best. If I go Windsor, looks like for half the cost I can get a great set of Eddy heads or the like.

2 - What do I need to install the W? What engine mounts? Oil pan? Headers? Other incidentals?

I always enjoy the opinions here...keep them coming

 

[Luke]

Turtle5353 had all the components listed for a great build http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-my-40...-its-alive

Good luck and keep us posted. Sling old Turtle a few rep point it you cook with his recipe

 

[c9zx]

When you do the detailed pricing research, and compare directly equivalent component features such as CNC porting and valve train quality (Trick Flow 190 vs. Edelbrock Vic Jr.) you'll find the Cleveland comes out about $500 more expensive. This assumes you don't need to buy other parts such as dampers, pulleys, and brackets for the Windsor that you have for the Cleveland. Looking at similar build (W vs. C) dyno numbers and flow data, make help you make a decision. Good luck on the build. Chuck

 

[Muswagon]

What about engine mounts, everything I have read says they are the same

 

[c9zx]

They are the same. Anchor part number 2257. Chuck

 

[Muswagon]

Ended up going with 408W Windsor, will rebuild the Cleveland to factory specs over time to keep if I ever sell the car.

Scat stroker kit from adperformance, AFR 185 renegade heads, and still working out the rest.

One question, what headers do I need for a 351W into a 73 with an FMX tranny? I have seen listings for a 351W swap header for a 73, I assume it means just that. Issue is my engine builder is highly urging me to buy 1 3/4 headers vs 1 5/8. The cost diff doesnt bug me, more worried about what 1 3/4 header will fit my application. Any thoughts?

 

[c9zx]

Given the displacement and minimum estimated power level of 490HP, the 1.75 is a better fit. You may want to see if an FMX that will live with that power level is readily available. You might also want to contact AFR with the specifics of your build before you buy the 185s. Just suggestions. Chuck

 

[Mesozoic]

To my knowledge, there are no 1.75" primary tubed headers available off the shelf that will fit a '71-73 Mustang with a 351W. I believe that FPA lists a header that is 1.75" for 65-73s, but after I emailed them asking for details and pricing they responded with:

Sorry. We have a 351 W based header for "ALL" cylinder heads but there is a mis print on our site as we have nothing for the 71-73 Mustangs. Only 67-70.

 

[Muswagon]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Went with Hooker 6901, which I think is the windsor version of the 6921 I had on the cleveland which cleared everything perfectly.

Going to run the FMX until it blows, have all my parts picked out at modern driveline for a TKO 600 swap. BUt I only want to spend the money if I have to.

 

[Mesozoic]

Nice thing about the Windsor is that is shares the same front dress as a late model Ford 302 (5.0L). That means you can run factory serpentine and all of the much improved and more durable accessories (power steering, 3G alternator, etc.) with very little effort. In fact, you can even run the late model Explorer front dress and get EDIS8 ignition!

 

[Muswagon]

I wish I would have gone that route.... Alternator and PS pump are essentially mounted, but not without alot of swearing and blood and grinding. Almost there, should have first startup friday

 

[Mesozoic]

George Klass of Accufab Racing has shipped a set of 1.75" primary longtube headers for the '71 Mustang, should be arriving tomorrow. I'll take some pics and of the fitment and let you know how it goes.

 

[Muswagon]

It's alive!

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

congrats! Hope it is awesome

 

[Mesozoic]

Nice, I like the sound of that engine. Please post some specs!

Ok, so I finally got around to checking the fitment on my '71 with the new Accufab headers. The fit is perfect. I only had to dimple one small area above the #8 sparkplug to clear the nut on the head stud in that corner. These are 1.75" primary tube full length headers and they clear the 4R70W transmission. The passenger side is a direct fit without any issues at all. The driver side is close to the steering box, but what full length header isn't!

Driver side:



Proximity to steering box:

 

[Muswagon]

Scat 4.000 Series 9000 Cast Steel Crankshaft, 9-351-4000-6000-2100w

Scat 4340 forged 6.200 I-beam Connecting Rods, with ARP 7/16 Capsrews 2-ICR6200-7/16

Probe Forged FPS 24cc dish Pistons, 4.030 bore, 24cc Dual Valve Relief (TFS or inline), 4032 alloy

Hastings Plasma Rings

Clevite P Series rod and main bearings

AFR 185 renegade heads

Holley 830 DP

Hooker headers, X-pipe, mac flowpath mufflers

Comp cam 284 int./296 exh duration and 0.541 int./0.544 exh lift

Scorpion roller rockers

Air gap dual plane eddie intake manifold

How does one go about getting a set of those headers?

 

[Mesozoic]

Scat 4.000 Series 9000 Cast Steel Crankshaft, 9-351-4000-6000-2100w

Scat 4340 forged 6.200 I-beam Connecting Rods, with ARP 7/16 Capsrews 2-ICR6200-7/16

Probe Forged FPS 24cc dish Pistons, 4.030 bore, 24cc Dual Valve Relief (TFS or inline), 4032 alloy

Hastings Plasma Rings

Clevite P Series rod and main bearings

AFR 185 renegade heads

Holley 830 DP

Hooker headers, X-pipe, mac flowpath mufflers

Comp cam 284 int./296 exh duration and 0.541 int./0.544 exh lift

Scorpion roller rockers

Air gap dual plane eddie intake manifold

How does one go about getting a set of those headers?

Speak to George Klass at Accufab Racing for the headers. For those who have never heard of Accufab Racing, enter the 21st century. Accufab is well known for making the best throttle bodies available for any racing application. I'm using a 90mm unit on my 750 hp supercharged '89 5.0 Mustang and I've also got an 80mm unit on the 408 in my '71. A little known fact is that they have also been making custom headers for Mustang (every vintage and model) for decades. https://www.accufabracing.com/mustang-exhaust

I have a similar setup, but with a Comp 35-442-8 cam using Comp Ultra Gold arc 1.72 rockers (lift is at 0.573"), a set of ported RHS 215 heads with 2.08" intake valves, SRP pistons for 10.3:1 compression, and EEC-V sequential injection with EDIS8 ignition.

With the heads finally flowing over 300 cfm with the port work, I figured the 1.75" primaries will be useful. George had something useful to say about primary tube diameter, though. The exhaust valve on most SBF heads is only 1.60", so the primary tube being any larger than that doesn't net much gains unless there's been extensive work to the heads to take advantage of the additional flow. A regular 1 5/8" (1.625") primary tube header is perfectly acceptable in a lot of street applications.

 

[Muswagon]

Took it home from my cousins place (otherwise known as my engine builder) last night

Have static timing at about 11 degrees, no ping so far, not sure what all in timing is yet

I was visibly shaken when I got home. The fastest car I had driven previously was a 94GT with full mac exhaust and a Vortech V2 supercharger, 3:73 gears which was at very least alot of fun.

The Mach 1 scared me to death. It had right there power even in 3rd gear at highway speed. From a standing start without even pushing it the 295's haze.

I cannot even imagine what 460/514 would have been like.

Appreciate all of the advice on here. I will post some fun videos when I can get all the leaks stopped.

 

[coilwire]

Would deffiently dump the FMX. built up my 351 C and the trans did o not last long. Am now running a C6 roller and no problems.

Jim