351c Build Ideas And Advice

[Cleveland Crush]

I am sure the 3v heads are great, although pushing $4000 for a pair of bare heads at my door seems a little excessive. I am not trying to get max output or even high rpm performance, just a street car that'll hit WOT for smiles every once in a while. 4x4 has a similar build to what I am looking for, besides being a 351 vs 408, with the cast 2v heads and he seems to love it without any issues. By old issue I just meant people only complained about it 20 years ago, now when those same heads are put into use they seem to work great. Also, the last time this engine ran was before I was born so I can't say anything about how the heads performed unfortunately. I am by no means a Ford person or have extensive knowledge about them, I have tinkered with Pontiacs for the last couple years, but everything I know about Ford is just from extensive research and forum crawling. Thanks for the input.

Zach, you're fine with open chamber heads. They burn measurably cleaner then closed heads and also do better at un-shrouding the valves. Like the current and classic Mopar hemi, the Cleveland OC heads employ a 360 degree quench design to gain their swirl and cleaner burn vs the closed chamber side draft.The "best" combustion chamber design is as near a sphere shape as possible (including the piston top). Over the years we've ran countless Cleveland Ford open and close style heads, ALL with excellent results. My opinion, good success with your build.

 

[giantpune]

IMHO, the 2v heads are fine on the street if you keep the stock compression and ignition timing. Mine runs fine with regular gas and a 600 CFM 4v Holley carb. Maximum advance is 36 degrees.

Mine's holding up fine even with a cam and increased compression.

The 2V held up fine for 50 years in stock form. I rebuilt it cause it was just old and tired. I put a cam and pistons in it, still running the stock 2V heads. Its a compcam's flat tappet. The cam profile is meant for torque, with a fairly steadly idle, not all choppy like. The combination does 325HP/400ftlb and runs on 87 octane. Mine's a street car. I beat up on it a bit and do doughnuts for the lulz. No issues with detonation out of mine, either.

Maybe the guys saying that heard it at a car show one time back in the 80s and have been repeating since then.

 

[351c1971]

Zach, you're fine with open chamber heads. They burn measurably cleaner then closed heads and also do better at un-shrouding the valves. Like the current and classic Mopar hemi, the Cleveland OC heads employ a 360 degree quench design to gain their swirl and cleaner burn vs the closed chamber side draft.The "best" combustion chamber design is as near a sphere shape as possible (including the piston top). Over the years we've ran countless Cleveland Ford open and close style heads, ALL with excellent results. My opinion, good success with your build.

Zach, you're fine with open chamber heads. They burn measurably cleaner then closed heads and also do better at un-shrouding the valves. Like the current and classic Mopar hemi, the Cleveland OC heads employ a 360 degree quench design to gain their swirl and cleaner burn vs the closed chamber side draft.The "best" combustion chamber design is as near a sphere shape as possible (including the piston top). Over the years we've ran countless Cleveland Ford open and close style heads, ALL with excellent results. My opinion, good success with your build.

If I remember correctly, Jack Roush did a buildup of a Street Boss 302 with stock 2v Cleveland heads. So what’s not to like about a stock head with 2.02 “ intake valves?

 

[351c1971]

If I remember correctly, Jack Roush did a buildup of a Street Boss 302 with stock 2v Cleveland heads. So what’s not to like about a stock head with 2.02 “ intake valves?

 

[72mokk1]

Number 1, find a machine shop familiar with Clevelands. Mister 4X4 has a nice set up.
I had the crank and the cam on the block line bored to true the block up, not sure if that is a standard practice anymore.
IMHO you don't need to spend the money on blue printing unless you are going to tighten the tolerances which equals more money.
I did a mild build, (less than 500HP) to run on pump gas.

 

[Zach]

Thanks for all the info, most likely will keep the 2v heads unless I can talk my mom into upping the budget a bit more lol. Seems AFD heads are more affordable compared to CHI if we go that route. Currently making a list of all the parts and what not that’ll go into it just so I have an idea. There’s a few machine shops around me but I haven’t looked into any that are ford or Cleveland experts yet. I think rotating assembly I’ll get from tmeyer, he’s just south of me and probably get the flywheel and dampener from him as well. Haven’t decided on cam and valve train yet. Compcams has a kit which makes it easy but have heard not so great things as well, although 4x4s build is great. Thanks for all the info guys, makes planning this significantly easier.

 

[Mister 4x4]

ALL of the information presented here by my esteemed forum-mates is all good information, but indicate different ideas of how to properly build an engine. If money were no object (and it pretty much wasn't for me, since I decided I was all-in on whatever I needed to do to have the '71 Mach 1 I'd always dreamed of), I still would've gone in the same direction I did because I did all the research myself, made smart decisions based on what I wanted the car to be, and did everything to it myself aside from the machine work, and had a blast doing so. The icing on the cake was getting a 'Holy Sh!t!' out of my BFF Jim, who happened to have been a certified mechanic and hot-rodder for over 45 years when I built it. He did not give out 'participation trophy' compliments, either.

At the end of the day, build it with your end-goal in mind, but don't swing for the fence with a full-on race engine if you're just going to cruise the strip and light-up the wanna-be F&F decal & fart cannon goons now and then.

 

[Zach]

ALL of the information presented here by my esteemed forum-mates is all good information, but indicate different ideas of how to properly build an engine. If money were no object (and it pretty much wasn't for me, since I decided I was all-in on whatever I needed to do to have the '71 Mach 1 I'd always dreamed of), I still would've gone in the same direction I did because I did all the research myself, made smart decisions based on what I wanted the car to be, and did everything to it myself aside from the machine work, and had a blast doing so. The icing on the cake was getting a 'Holy Sh!t!' out of my BFF Jim, who happened to have been a certified mechanic and hot-rodder for over 45 years when I built it. He did not give out 'participation trophy' compliments, either.

At the end of the day, build it with your end-goal in mind, but don't swing for the fence with a full-on race engine if you're just going to cruise the strip and light-up the wanna-be F&F decal & fart cannon goons now and then.

Well said, this is my take away too. Thanks for all the input. Definitely will take your build and experiences into account when doing my own.

 

[Zach]

Seems like my mom is ok with opening the wallet for her build. If I really wanna push my luck what aluminum heads are the best bang for the buck? I know people love CHI but man are they pricey, I also heard AFD is great and they seem to be cheaper. My 2v heads need ALL of the work so I will be dumping money into heads regardless. I don't have a manifold yet so compatibility isn't a concern, although I did get a new pair of 2v hooker comp headers when Holley was having a sale that might need to be resold unfortunately. Just to reiterate for clarity it'll be a 408, hydraulic roller cam that is rowdy but isn't too crazy for the street (Haven't picked one out yet, might ask lykin for a custom one but I need a fleshed out build first) and probably shooting for around 9.5-10:1 compression, Holley sniper 2 efi+dist/ign, 4 speed, 3.25 t-lok. 91 non eth is common around here, and I can drive 10 mins to a BP near me for 93. Thanks guys, lots of information just let me know if I am missing any info that can help, just want to get a rock solid plan before we start buying parts.

 

[Tnfastbk]

Here is a good contact

https://lykinsmotorsports.com/

 

[AcesArneson]

Seems like my mom is ok with opening the wallet for her build. If I really wanna push my luck what aluminum heads are the best bang for the buck? I know people love CHI but man are they pricey, I also heard AFD is great and they seem to be cheaper. My 2v heads need ALL of the work so I will be dumping money into heads regardless. I don't have a manifold yet so compatibility isn't a concern, although I did get a new pair of 2v hooker comp headers when Holley was having a sale that might need to be resold unfortunately. Just to reiterate for clarity it'll be a 408, hydraulic roller cam that is rowdy but isn't too crazy for the street (Haven't picked one out yet, might ask lykin for a custom one but I need a fleshed out build first) and probably shooting for around 9.5-10:1 compression, Holley sniper 2 efi+dist/ign, 4 speed, 3.25 t-lok. 91 non eth is common around here, and I can drive 10 mins to a BP near me for 93. Thanks guys, lots of information just let me know if I am missing any info that can help, just want to get a rock solid plan before we start buying parts.

I run Edelbrocks 61629 with hydraulic roller. It mates up with the 2V headers and Weiand X-celerator 2V style 4V intake. Lots of room on the heads and the intake for porting if 450hp is not enough. I run 10.66:1 compression with flat top pistons, which is why I wanted to get rid of the open chamber heads in the first place. Flat tops and open chambers don't mix well when you are looking for higher compression. If you are ok with stock compression then just have your 2V heads rebuilt, you will be able to get them ported and clear 400hp if your porter can get the flow numbers up. You could also let him test your intake to see if it flows at the same rate or higher. No sense increasing the flow through the heads if you can't get it there in the first place. I find the price of a good aluminum intake to be reasonable in contrast to port work on an intake but finding out what you can flow through your intake in its stock form will give you all the info you need to make the decision.

 

[Zach]

Talked to Brent at lykins and he suggested CHI heads by a long shot. If I am going with CHI I might as well go for the 3vs. The bare 3v 208 60cc heads, and their dual plane intake is gonna run about 4k before taxes and all of that. Are they really that much better than a trick flow or another aluminum head that are around the 3kish range for a pair and I can use the cheaper air gap intake?

 

[Tnfastbk]

I have AFD SP4V along with an air gap and I am pretty happy with mine. I have no real numbers to share but its fun

 

[Zach]

I have AFD along with an air gap and I am pretty happy with mine. I have no real numbers to share but its fun

Where did you source your AFDs from? I heard they run good, someone else on this forum said they like them a lot but bought them from someone that he wouldn't recommend. Thanks.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

Based

Talked to Brent at lykins and he suggested CHI heads by a long shot. If I am going with CHI I might as well go for the 3vs. The bare 3v 208 60cc heads, and their dual plane intake is gonna run about 4k before taxes and all of that. Are they really that much better than a trick flow or another aluminum head that are around the 3kish range for a pair and I can use the cheaper air gap intake?

Based on your parameters above I doubt you'll notice much if any performancs difference between CHI vs their competitors. While I personally like and use CHI products the other guys are making pretty good stuff too. Do not go cheap on the valve train i.e. lifters, rockers, springs, keepers, etc. and pay close attention to rocker geometry. Solicit competent advice on your spring and retainer requirements.

 

[Zach]

Based
Based on your parameters above I doubt you'll notice much if any performancs difference between CHI vs their competitors. While I personally like and use CHI products the other guys are making pretty good stuff too. Do not go cheap on the valve train i.e. lifters, rockers, springs, keepers, etc. and pay close attention to rocker geometry. Solicit competent advice on your spring and retainer requirements.

Seems like I can get them from lykins and he can assemble them as well. Pretty tempting, but I am going to look around for a bit still. Which intake do you run with them and how is the hood clearance, thanks.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

Seems like I can get them from lykins and he can assemble them as well. Pretty tempting, but I am going to look around for a bit still. Which intake do you run with them and how is the hood clearance, thanks.

CHI 3v intake here. With a drop base air cleaner you can go ABOUT 3" filter element maximum with NACA hood. For more versatility, consider milling the CHI's carb pad down it's maximum amount (about 3/4") then use a phenolic spacer of appropriate thickness to tweak the carb height to your liking. The phenolic spacer will also insulate the carb. Without a drop base cleaner or not shaving the intakes carb pad the hood will not close.

 

[73pony]

I'm running the trick flow 225's with an airgap. Very happy. The car screams. No clearance issues with the NACA hood. Would not easily clear a flat hood.,

 

[Zach]

I'm running the trick flow 225's with an airgap. Very happy. The car screams. No clearance issues with the NACA hood. Would not easily clear a flat hood.,

Thanks, looking into trick flow currently. Seems the 195s 62cc ported heads are the only ones offered that are assembled for a hyd roller, the bares are out of stock till mid August. Seems like a good deal, and I can run Edelbrock air gap + my current headers, for almost half the final price of CHIs.

Edit:
Lykins got back to me and apparently he offers the 208 3vs assembled at a pretty reasonable price, so I am back on the fence lol.

 

[Tnfastbk]

Where did you source your AFDs from? I heard they run good, someone else on this forum said they like them a lot but bought them from someone that he wouldn't recommend. Thanks.

I got mine from the factory in Australia. I had mine cut for the compression I wanted for the piston I am running. They seem to perform really well but I'm not sure I would buy another set due to them being a raised port head and the issues you have to work around with that.