71 429 CJ Auto, Air in Atlanta $7,500

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Saw this ad this morning in Atlanta and thought I would spread the word if you are looking for one. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/5847145248.html

I do not know anything about the car you will need to contact the seller. Looks like it has a set of 73 aluminum wheels on it. Says "Needs Engine & Transmission".

 

[Pastel Blue]

I am still searching for the rust free body... everything needs restoring on this car and it is missing it's original drivetrain...

I overpaid for my vert in comparison, but it was #'s matching and 96% rust free. I think I would rather over pay then deal with this restoration that will always be hit hard at resale due to a non #'s matching driveline. Even the drive shaft is specific to this car (drive train) and good luck finding one and when you do $$$. Look this one over real close be fore spending your $$$...

 

[classicsguy]

What would be a fair price for this car in its current condition?

 

[midlife]

$1500-$2000? It's basically a rolling rusty shell with a ram-air hood and a special VIN. Tach dash and automagic tranny.

 

[donkost]

Well at least the driver's seat upholstery looks to be in good shape. You just know that everything you can't see is extensively rusted, including the cowl. The body panels actually don't look too bad from the outside. My guess is a $40K to $50K restoration at minimum if it is farmed out. And it's not like a period-correct 429 CJ drivetrain is very easy to find. It's a shame to see one of them slip away like this, when so few were made to begin with.

 

[mwilson7]

Looking at the prices I'm seeing regular 302 and 351 71 Mach 1's sell for I actually don't think it's too far out of line to be honest. If you figured $7.5k-$10k for the complete engine and trans that gets you to $15k which is the price that I've seen plenty of complete cars needing restoration who's bodies were in worse shape than this car. Except for the driveline this car would cost the same as a 302 or 351 car but be worth at least twice as much when it was done.

Don't forget that the grabber blue 429 CJ that sold earlier this year for $86k that wasn't an original engine car:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0516-243131/1971-ford-mustang-mach-1-fastback/

Very nice car no doubt but still not numbers matching.

Anyone have the vin or know if it's a J or C code? I wouldn't mind seeing the marti report on this car.

 

[mach71351c]

We all have seen worse. To bad the engine trans are missing.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Wow. The seller must be smokin' some really good stuff.

The only things that make the car a 429 CJ or SCJ Mach 1, are the VIN and the engine... and since there's no engine, you're buying a VIN along with a collection of stuff that will most likely need to be around 80% replaced.

Then there's the statement: "very clean and straight rust free body," HA!! Apparently, that guy has absolutely no idea what those words mean.

I mean, seriously - mine was at least complete and looked a whole lot better in the Craigslist pictures I saw than this one does... and we all know how that turned out. :whistling:

Not worth a penny over $2K, IMHO.

 

[mwilson7]

So how much is the shell of a 69-70 Shelby or 428 CJ/SCJ worth over the base car to you guys? You are totally right Eric! You are buying the vin. But in the collector car world the vin can make the difference between a mint $25k 1965 6 cylinder fastback and a $400k Shelby. Over the summer I looked at a 1965 Shelby that was in worse condition than the car in the craigslist add and he was asking $100,000 for it. I was third in line for it and the guy who was first in line bought it for $120,000. I spoke to the guy on some parts shortly after and he told me he stopped counting phone calls and emails at 100.

Like it or not there is much more to a cars value than it's present condition. History, options and original equipment play a huge role in determining the value of a shell.

Just out of curiosity would anyone's opinion change if the 5th digit in the vin was an "R" instead of a "J"?

 

[Mister 4x4]

My opinion is my opinion and I'm a realist. It won't take any less to restore a 'valuable' car from that condition than it did my lowly H-Code... and I'm into it over $45K as a simple Day Two Restomod. A faithful restoration of a 'valuable' car will easily double that (NOS parts, professional restoration and labor costs, etc.). That car won't be worth its full potential ever again because it will never be numbers matching ever again. Sure, someone could run down another 429 CJ and C6... and even get close to the right production date - technically, it would be numbers matching based on today's ever-changing standards, I suppose... but it will ever only be a 'close enough' car. I just don't want anybody looking at the guy's words and his price thinking they've found a 'Rare Find' potentially worth top-dollar or more. This car's a turd, missing most of its key defining components, and will cost a fortune to reclaim its actual value (not all that much unlike my own lowly H-Code). But, there's a sucker born every minute, as they say. rofl

What about '69-'70 Shelbys? Depending on condition, I think they're overpriced - more so as the condition worsens. Honestly, I'm about fed-up with the feeding frenzy the '67 Shelbys/Eleanor Clones have enjoyed as well. I've never been a 'bandwagon' fan of anything. Most people tend to flock to the mainstream "bandwagon" things, driving those values up. Hey, that's cool - if you want to run into yourself around every corner because everybody and their dog owns the same thing because it's cool - go for it. That's the main reason I didn't buy a silver 2010 Camaro 2SS, and instead started my Mach 1 project. There are thousands of newer Camaros roaming the streets of San Angelo... and only one (1) 1971 Mach 1, which is mine. There are also at least a half-dozen vintage Shelbys here as well.

Personally, again - this is my opinion, I would never buy an R, C, J, Q, or M Code because I'm not a purist. Mine just happened to be a numbers matching H-Code... but honestly, a 302 car would've been fine for me - as long as it was a Mach 1. I had the opportunity to buy a pristine M-Code Mach 1 shortly after I started my project. I'd thought about abandoning the project and just buying the M-Code outright... but it was 'investment quality,' and I had other plans. I like my cars the way I like them (which usually means a little bit of tasteful customizing), and I'm not the guy to put one back together for the purpose of simply selling it [most likely] at a loss - my time and money invested are worth too much to me to go down that road. Investment cars have their place, but I'm not in a position (i.e., disposable income, time, storage facility, etc.) to collect 'valuable' cars for the purpose of just having them. I like to enjoy my cars by driving them more than just to parades and car shows (even though I haven't gotten much farther than that as of yet ).

At the end of the day, it's still just a classic car that's been left to rot - regardless of what the VIN says. What any car is worth just depends on the potential buyers, if that's your intent. Mine will never be sold as long as I have anything to say about it... and if it ever is, it certainly won't be for profit.

Don't get me wrong, either: I don't bemoan anybody who collects investment cars - that's where the fun is for them... ain't nothing wrong with that - just not my cup of tea. ::thumb::

 

[mwilson7]

Eric,

I understand where you are coming from and respect your opinion. I'm coming at it from a collector standpoint and you're coming at it from a hobbyist standpoint and that's cool. If you're looking at this car as just a shell to turn into a personal project (which I actually prefer) then it's definitely a pass, I agree. But if you are looking to restore a classic car as an investment then it may be a starting point. I'm not saying a great starting point but it is a starting point.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I get what you're saying, and I respect your opinion as well. Honestly though, I never said it was a 'pass,' just that it was too much money for such poor condition. :whistling:

Seriously, based on the pics alone, mine was in what appeared to be better shape than this one... and I paid too much at $1600 (seized engine, flogged tranny, Fred Flintstone floors & trunk, trashed interior, etc.). Once I peeled back the layers - whole different story. I think this car has a lot more rust going on that the seller's admitting, having actually done literally everything (except paint) on my project myself.

And again, I'd never buy a 'valuable' car to become a restomod/custom car. There are already not enough 'valuable' cars left out there to be properly restored. It just makes more sense to me to pick up a less desirable model to become someone's hot rod for many reasons, the big ones being 'affordable starting point,' as well as not hacking up a 'valuable/rare/collectible' car.

We're not so much in disagreement is it might appear. ::beer::

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Ok guys I thought I would put an end to some of the speculation about this car. I just finished talking with the owner for the last half hour. He is remodeling a couple houses and needs the money. He has worked in high end car restoration shops and understood all of my questions. So here is what I can report from phone conversation.

He will take offers at this point if you are interested.

1: Is there rust holes in the body, floors, cowl, trunk, shock towers etc

This car has never been painted still has original factory paint with primer having been sprayed in areas where surface rust was appearing. There are NO rust holes in the shock towers, cowl, trunk, not even around the tail lights. No rust holes in the floor, torque boxes. The only rust hole in the body is behind the right rear wheel about the size of two quarters. There is rust in the L.H. front fender apron under the battery caused by battery not salt or water.

Only body panel changed is trunk lid.

The carpet has not been pulled out. Car was stored inside for last 20 years.

2: Was the engine blown, sold or what is situation? He has never had the engine and has not been in the car for around 20 years. He got from Huntsville Alabama and came without engine and transmission.

3: Do you have a Marti?

No but will give VIN if you want to order.

4: What are options on car?

Air, Brackets, two boxes and components inside car, P.S., P.D.B., had either an AM/8 track or AM/FM has door speakers, Mach 1 sports interior with gauges, wood grain and tach, fold down rear seat. Has the original Traction Loc rear. He has 3 of the 15" Magnum 500 wheels that go with the car and as you can see in photo has a set of 73 aluminum factory wheels.

5: Has VIN# on inner fender been verified?

Yes fender pulled and matches dash and door tag.

6: Is there any body damage?

There is a bent place in the bottom of the radiator support and the cross-member just behind it.

He stated that he has owned several of these cars over the years. I got him to go to our Forum and he will be joining. His name is Bernie and his phone is 770-899-4456.

He has an ap on his phone that he can give you real time feed of video from his phone to yours if you have the ap.

So as usual photos lie the apparent rust bucket is just surface rust on the panels. Owner is stating no rust holes as stated above doesn't even need tail light panel.

That is all I can report so don't pump me for more give the owner a call if interested.

I think this would be a great car to restore since it is not covered with multiple layers of paint and bondo to hide anything. It appears to be well optioned but a Marti is needed. As always if you are interested GO and look at the car in person. No it will not have numbers matching but these are getting so difficult to find that is not a big factor in today's market.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Thanks, David. ::thumb::

But his ad still says, "clean body - no rust," and claims top-dollar value because it was a 429 CJ car at one point in its life.

The rust in the pics is beyond mere surface rust - any time the rust leaves a run-off dripping stain after it's been wet, there's more than one can simply call surface rust. Mine only had a couple of small rust holes in the rear quarters... which demanded complete replacement once I got into it and discovered a LOT more than was outwardly visible. I've fallen for this game before, and paid dearly for it... and would gladly do it all over again - but a guy on a tighter budget would wind up with a half-finished project he'd have to eventually unload at a loss.

I'm just saying, "Buyer Beware, and go in with a much lower starting point for negotiations if you're interested." 429 CJ pedigree aside, the car's really not worth any more than a salvage company would offer since it has no ability to drive - it's basically a lawn sculpture/boat-anchor until someone dumps A LOT of money into it to get it running and pretty again. :whistling:

A collector might see a bargain... a hobbyist sees 'over-priced.'

 

[midlife]

A collector might see a bargain... a hobbyist sees 'over-priced.'

David: go for it or continue taking your meds.

 

[mwilson7]

A collector might see a bargain... a hobbyist sees 'over-priced.'

David: go for it or continue taking your meds.

+1!

 

[6972boss]

A collector might see a bargain... a hobbyist sees 'over-priced.'

David: go for it or continue taking your meds.

+1!

^^^^yea, what he said^^^^

 

[bay0726]

Hey Guys, North Carolina Dave called me this morning and let me know about the forum. Its my car and if you guys want any more info or pictures I'll be happy to forward them. And to all you naysayers, why don't you come look at it instead of just bashing my add... the cars been in a barn since the late 80ies I know it needs to be restored but way better then starting with a rusty car. In my mind, even with out the original motor trans, I can out build a factory 429cj with a 460 any day and most people wouldn't even know the difference. $7500 is pretty fair price... If you want it for $2000 keep dreaming!

Thanks guys, looking forward to browsing the forum some more!

It's a "C" code.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Greetings - I'm the head basher. :whistling:

Look, I'm not trying or going to argue with you, because I don't have the benefit of seeing it person. I'm not trying to put it down, as much as offer the perspective of reality, and I would hope that anybody interested in buying it has the time, money, patience, and skills to restore it properly, because once it IS done [properly] it could be worth a good chunk of change - right now... not so much (at least, in my opinion - having restored one from the brink of "unrestorable").

If the car was an H-Code (or anything other than a Boss 351 or 429 car, apparently), it wouldn't be worth more than $2000. I stand by my opinion of only buying a VIN, since everything else that made it a C-Code is long since gone. Why do I say that? Because I talked my car's seller down from more than that to $1600... and after I started in on it, discovered I'd paid way too much at that. The practice of inflating the buy-in price on 'rare,' 'valuable,' and 'collectible' cars in such poor condition (based on what it might fetch fully restored) has been driving up the prices on all of the other cars, which pulls the uninformed sellers out of the woodwork to ask ridiculous prices for essentially scrap metal projects for the purpose of making a quick buck when some uninformed buyer comes along wearing the Mach 1 Goggles (I was that guy 6 years ago). I call that the "Gas Monkey Garage Syndrome." (No, I'm not a fan)

I'll give you props for coming to the show and offering to stand behind your claims - most sellers could care less. Thanks for that, you seem like a decent guy and to the right buyer, this might make a great deal for all parties.

With that said, welcome to the forums and I wish you good luck in selling your project car - seriously.

BTW - you kinda made my point and invalidated your position a little by suggesting someone dump-in a 460. If that's the intent for the car, then why pay $7500 for such a 'rare, 'valuable,' and 'collectable' model, when a guy could do the same thing to a 302 car in similar condition for an eighth of the buy-in price you're asking? Just sayin'. :whistling: