'71 with 408W CDAN4 EEC-V retrofit

[Mesozoic]

Doesn't seem to care about the cam at all... Idles like a late model. Nice.

You're right. I think that's the beauty of the EEC since it was designed to adapt to a wide variety of engine configurations with the least amount of fuss. Do you know that it will also run 4 and 6 cylinder engines? Not that anyone of us ever would in a classic Mustang, but just saying.

 

[70TorinoGuy]

Hey Mesozoic, nice build. Just wondering how things are going with it nowadays and if you would do anything differently? I want to drop a 1999 Ford Explorer 5.0L with 4R70W in my 70 Torino but I have no clue how I control this beast because it has PATS. Will the computer number you have work for mine with a completely stock setup. I have the complete wrecked explorer but no keys. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jason

 

[Mesozoic]

Hey Mesozoic, nice build. Just wondering how things are going with it nowadays and if you would do anything differently? I want to drop a 1999 Ford Explorer 5.0L with 4R70W in my 70 Torino but I have no clue how I control this beast because it has PATS. Will the computer number you have work for mine with a completely stock setup. I have the complete wrecked explorer but no keys. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jason

Wrecked '99 Explorer is a nice find! I wouldn't do anything differently with my drivetrain and have it tuned reasonably well now. I believe the EEC-V I'm using is pre-PATS, although there are ways to work around reprogramming them. The easiest thing to do would be to find a CDAN4 EEC-V computer and replace the Explorer ECM with that since they're both EEC-V and share the same connector. Reprogramming it to run the 302 isn't too challenging and I could even help you out with that.

Being a long time EEC-IV tuner, I will say that there was definitely a learning curve going from EEC-IV to EEC-V. However, it was, without a doubt, a huge improvement and well worth the effort. Knowing what I know now about tuning the V makes me comfortable with it, but I did end up stranded at the local Chevron with the car unable to start and stay idling in the initial days, despite having my friend in the car (who is a professional fuel injection design engineer) and myself being a computer engineer! The point I'm making is that EEC tuning is not very user friendly and it requires a fair bit of research on forums like EFIDynoTuning.com and EECTuning.org to be satisfied with your state of tune.

That being said, my reasonably cammed high compression 408 fires right up, cold or hot, settles into a nice idle, has incredible throttle response, midrange and top end performance, computer controlled sequential fire injection, crank trigger ignition, and even the computer controlled transmission works flawlessly. It really is turn key and have your cake and eat it too.

I have some friends who are deep into the Megasquirt world. In fact, my friend who is the professional EFI engineer has a '64 Falcon wagon with a turbocharged 289 and coil on plug that is controlled via Megasquirt 2. Another friend has a '62 Chevy pickup with an MS2 controlled 496 big block. Both vehicles run extremely well. Megasquirt 3 is now out, which supports sequential injection and also does PWM fan control natively. Kits can be had to retrofit them to small block Fords, but while the tuning interface is more user friendly, the cost of an MS3 unit with harness is substantially higher than junkyard Ford finds. So... investigate your options and make a decision on which route you want to go.

I wouldn't change anything, I've really got my car at a point where it runs amazingly well and is a real joy to drive, especially at high speeds cruising with the overdrive transmission.

 

[70TorinoGuy]

Hey Mesozoic, I will try to find a CDAN4 EEC-V ecm pre PATS and see what happens. I think my issues would start with the extra wiring and wrong pinouts on the explorer harness plugs and maybe other issues. Unless you think otherwise. Especially since they're were changes to the explorer in late 1997. My wrecked 99 Ford Explorer 5.0L has the distributorless ignition system like yours. This seems like it would be a complete nightmare situation to trace problems like you had initially. Using the old explorer wiring harness seems like it would be more of a problem and adding more wires than necessary. Should I just use a painless wiring kit for ease of installation or go the explorer oem harness route? I'm all about saving money but, if it would save me countless hours of problems then I will spend the extra money... because this Torino wiring is 45 years old. That is where I'm at.... a complete stand still... so many different directions to take... Thanks for letting me pick your brain. I think you can help me get my project up and rolling again. I'm getting sick of just looking at the car and not being able to enjoy it. It's driving me nuts.

Jason

 

[Mesozoic]

Hey Mesozoic, I will try to find a CDAN4 EEC-V ecm pre PATS and see what happens. I think my issues would start with the extra wiring and wrong pinouts on the explorer harness plugs and maybe other issues. Unless you think otherwise. Especially since they're were changes to the explorer in late 1997. My wrecked 99 Ford Explorer 5.0L has the distributorless ignition system like yours. This seems like it would be a complete nightmare situation to trace problems like you had initially. Using the old explorer wiring harness seems like it would be more of a problem and adding more wires than necessary. Should I just use a painless wiring kit for ease of installation or go the explorer oem harness route? I'm all about saving money but, if it would save me countless hours of problems then I will spend the extra money... because this Torino wiring is 45 years old. That is where I'm at.... a complete stand still... so many different directions to take... Thanks for letting me pick your brain. I think you can help me get my project up and rolling again. I'm getting sick of just looking at the car and not being able to enjoy it. It's driving me nuts.

Jason

I love those old Torinos... saw one at the local cruise in last Thursday in excellent shape and was drooling all over it. Very nice cars.

Anyway, the 104-pin EEC-V pinout is going to be the same for every EEC-V, but your wiring harness will be different for each vehicle it was installed in. My friend has a shop in town and can obtain the complete wiring diagrams for the EEC, so if you have access to a similar kind of friend you're in good shape! I got my harness from a '96 Crown Vic and used the Mitchell On-Demand diagrams that my friend provided me... everything was exactly as illustrated and it all worked the 1st time.

So, again, the EEC-V pinout remains the same across all the various versions of them. Eg,. the pins that drive the CKP (crank position sensor) will always be the in the same location on all EEC-V since the hardware is designed that way. It will not matter if you obtain an EEC-V from a '96 Mustang GT, Crown Vic, or whatever, but you should make sure that you get the computer from a V8 car. This is because the EDIS ignition chip is different for the various number of cylinders supported by the EEC. The V6 EDIS chip is different from the V8 and will not support one.

All you need then, is the correct wiring diagram for the vehicle your donor harness is from. In your case this is the '99 Explorer. I think the only major difference between the '96-98 and '99+ Explorer is the camshaft position sensor type used. The early models had a Hall effect 3-pin sensor and the later models came with a passive variable reluctance (VR) sensor. I'm using the VR type, btw... it is more reliable since there are no active components in the sensor. You'll probably get rid of the thermactor, EGR, and possibly the rear O2 sensors (total of 4, but I'm only running 2). These things are easily disabled within the CDAN4 tune via programming. The connections on the wiring harness for the unused devices can either be cut off and cleaned up, or simply left disconnected.

I ended up taking the entire stock harness apart and removing all extraneous connections. I then purchased some Techflex F6 sleeving in various diameters and finished the harness after lengthening/shortening whatever was needed. It took a while to finish all the wiring, but I wasn't in a rush and took my time. I created an Excel spreadsheet that documents all the connector pinouts that I ended up using and not using.

I ended up replacing my entire vehicle chassis harness with a Painless Wiring setup for Ford musclecars prior to performing the fuel injection conversion, but I don't believe they've got a plug and play harness for the late model EFI past 1993.


Also, this link should help you find the right EEC-V.

 

[MustangMyWay]

Instead of Painless, I intend to use http://www.ronfrancis.com/ after talking to them at SEMA. They had some points that I appreciated as an electrician.

 

[Mesozoic]

Instead of Painless, I intend to use http://www.ronfrancis.com/ after talking to them at SEMA. They had some points that I appreciated as an electrician.

Took a look at the website for Ron Francis. Definitely looks like a quality alternative to Painless... pricing appears to be on par. For engine harnesses however, my personal opinion as an electrical engineer is to use the OEM harness as a starting point, modify them for the specific retrofit application, and refinish with Techflex F6. The reason for this being that the really late model harness construction is very good, designed for durability in the long term, includes shielding where necessary (usually cam sync, crank position, and EDIS sensors), and substantially more cost effective.

 

[70TorinoGuy]

Looked at both... I think I'll use the oem harness if in good condition. More funds for other goodies. I'll have to dust off my digital multimeter. Oh boy. What an I getting myself into. Lmao

 

[Mesozoic]

Looked at both... I think I'll use the oem harness if in good condition. More funds for other goodies. I'll have to dust off my digital multimeter. Oh boy. What an I getting myself into. Lmao

LOL, at least you have a clue what a multimeter is! Honestly, the bulk of the work is checking your wiring at the end by beeping out the harness and making sure all pin positions match from one end to the other. Besides, if you're starting with the '99 Explorer harness, you're pretty much already there. You simply need to remove some unnecessary connections, potentially lengthen a few runs (if you need to shorten, I'd just use zip ties to hold a shortened bundle rather than cut), and then wrap it all back up.

 

[Totalled]

Just have a tuner turn off the PATS function...

 

[Mesozoic]

Just have a tuner turn off the PATS function...

Only certain popular EEC-V strategies are tunable via definitions made by various authors (Sailorbob, Pop's Racing, etc.). Some of them come in varying levels of completeness and I'm not sure which PATS enabled EECs have definitions available. CDAN4 is likely the most popular EEC-V strategy, however. I recommend the Sailorbob definition as well since I have 1st hand experience tuning it and have reportedly seen some issues with definitions made by other people/companies.

 

[70TorinoGuy]

I have thought about going that route but I think it can't be disabled unless I have someone install a piggyback chip on the EEC and then have it flashed. At least that is what i was told by others on another forum site for Fords. It's more than a bit nerve racking to find someone that knows what they are talking about and will not break your budget. Learning about EEC-V is definitely something I'm wanting to dive into. My lack of knowledge of computer controlled EFI shows. Lol. Give me any carb and I can rebuild it, install it and be up and running in no time. It's time for me to learn the "new" stuff. Lol.

 

[Mesozoic]

Speaking of piggybacks, to do anything with an EEC-IV or V requires one of several options to expose a USB port to your laptop. All devices attach to the J3 port on the EEC.

1. Moates Quarterhorse: About $250, enables datalogging, realtime trace, and live updating the tune with the engine running. Drawback: if used for long periods of time (years), the onboard battery can die and leave you stranded.
   
2. TwEECer RT: New ~$500, used for $300ish. Enables datalogging, but has limited memory so not all parameters can be logged simultaneously. No live update support or trace support as far as I can tell. No battery, so a good option for long term/permanent use.
   
3. Moates F3: About $40, no datalogging, trace, or live updates, but a good permanent solution once you've got a good tune.
   

I have several vehicles in my garage and have experience with all of them. My '79 Bronco and '89 Mustang are running EEC-IV with TwEECer RTs. My '71 Mustang is running EEC-V with Moates Quarterhorse, but since the tune is almost dialed I'm planning to move it to the F3. This is good because I just rebuilt the engine in my '89 and have changed many things so expect to tune a bit with the Quarterhorse.

 

[70TorinoGuy]

Hey Mesozoic, this is the EEC-V in my wrecked explorer. Do you think it's worthy of my time to deal with?

 

[Mesozoic]

Hey Mesozoic, this is the EEC-V in my wrecked explorer. Do you think it's worthy of my time to deal with?

Take a look at that link I posted a few messages back and do a lookup for that calibration... I don't think it's a popular one to tune, though.

Ok, so I looked that up in that spreadsheet and this is what is listed. Basically, you're looking at a REAC3 strategy EEC-V. I don't know if anyone has a definition for that EEC, but I think Pops Racing was working on one. A better and cheaper bet would be to find a CDAN4 strategy computer and start with that. It's far more popular.

Year: 1999

Model: Explorer

Engine: 5.0L

Qualifier: 9VAA-BA CALIBRATION

Strategy: REAC3

CAL_ID: A8

PTYPE: ML2-8A1

CALNUM: 9VAA-BAB

EPARTNUM: XL2F-PB

Checksum: 7EFD

Filesize: 216

Year: 1999

Model: Mountaineer

Engine: 5.0L

Qualifer: 9VAA-BA CALIBRATION

Strategy: REAC3

CAL_ID: A8

PTYPE: ML2-8A1

CALNUM: 9VAA-BAB

EPARTNUM: XL2F-PB

Checksum: 7EFD

Filesize: 216

 

[70TorinoGuy]

Thanks Mesozoic, I found it earlier... Just didn't have time to reply back. It's work time for me. Blah! LOL. I'll go with your advice. Since that is the general consensus among all the sites. Easier and cheaper is better for me at the moment. Thanks again for your advice and your help dude. Aircraft inlet repairs are in my future for tonight. If I have a free minute later I'll look online for a good CDAN4 EEC-V ecm.

70TorinoGuy

Jason

 

[70TorinoGuy]

I think I found a 1996 Ford Crown Vic P71 ecm. I'm waiting on the wrecking yard to call me back. I hope they have one and this works for me.

 

[Mesozoic]

I think I found a 1996 Ford Crown Vic P71 ecm. I'm waiting on the wrecking yard to call me back. I hope they have one and this works for me.

Ha, good luck with it! I ended up purchasing several junkyard units and even had a few shipped to me via eBay and I found problems with them when I hooked them up on the bench. Short circuited, etc. In the end, I ended up calling All Ford Mustangs in Phoenix, AZ, which is an all Ford Mustang junkyard. Bob over there hooked me up with a good used one and shipped it for free. If you end up having troubles finding a a good EEC-V, contact [email protected].

 

[70TorinoGuy]

LOL! Fingers crossed... I'll keep Bob's email handy just in case though. Thanks again.

Jason

 

[73StangJK]

Mesozoic, I want to marry you. Wait are you female??

This is exactly the information I was looking for. I attempted to do EFI on the cheap with an old Holley 950 Pro and throttle body. The results were mixed, little more power, less driveability, less gas mileage, and broken something in the engine. Most of that was due I'm sure to my lack of tuning knowledge with the system.

Anyway, I'm going to replicate your process on my 73.

Thank you!!