Aluminum heads

[Jim and Jutta]

The previous owner of my M Code 351C removed the 4V heads and put 2V heads on with an edlebrock 2750 intake and then the Autolite 4300D back on. He provided me with the removed 4V intake but no longer had the 4V head. I've since replaced the Autolite with an Edlebrock Thunderseries Carb. I've verified the partial vin# on the engine matches the dash vin# so I've confirmed it's an M code engine, the more I learn about our cars the more I think it's wrong for it to have 2V heads on it but I'm not sure I want to go with the original style 4V heads.

Lots of differences of opinions concerning 4V vs 2V heads for drivability etc.

I'm looking at removing the 2V heads and going with aluminum heads. Suggestions for aluminum head options, would be much appreciated. I've found this to be the place to get the right advice from all different angles before making a major decision on our cars, you guys are great!

Jim

 

[hyena429]

Some realy love the aussie heads for the street...That being said my 4v heads have never been ill tempered while drivng around in town...Specialy with the 3,000 rpm vert mine come with....Never had a issue..I would stick thou too open chambered heads.."if it was me"....They are so much better at burning todays fuels...they breath a little better than closed chambered...And with pop up dome pistons you can get as much compression as you want..With out alot of the detonation you get with closed chambered heads.

How much power are you looking for?

 

[Jim and Jutta]

How much power are you looking for?

I'm not really out for power as much as I'm out for dependability and drivability...but a little more power would be nice.

Jim

 

[hyena429]

http://www.ausfordparts.com/afd4v.html these allways looked nice to me...lol...a kinda compromise between the 2 heads.

How much power are you looking for?

I'm not really out for power as much as I'm out for dependability and drivability...but a little more power would be nice.

Jim

well..them old 2v heads should be good up too 300hp ..But after that you have to have them ported or step up too a bigger head....That being said...I been runing 4v heads all my life...And she was always gental and easy to drive in town....and only reason im rebuilding her after 15 years...Is cause some idiot didnt put in cross hatching into my side walls...just circle cuts...Was lined honed..But never cross hatched....So after 15 years it ate my rings up....lol..I think that motor would of lasted me most of my life if it would of been rebuilt right..i think they are dependable.


http://www.ausfordparts.com/afd2v.html there 2v versions are evil too..they make some power heads for clevelands..lol

 

[will e]

If you a not looking for a big performance gain then stick with the stock 4v heads. Nothing wrong with them. You will be spending a LOT of money on aluminum heads. Most of them are set up to go along with an engine that requires more breathing. Only the Tom Cook ones look stock. The CHI ones work best with their manifold (port matched). You should check out and/or ask at the network54 335 engine forum. You will get a lot of good and friendly advice there.

 

[TommyK]

The previous owner of my M Code 351C removed the 4V heads and put 2V heads on with an edlebrock 2750 intake and then the Autolite 4300D back on. He provided me with the removed 4V intake but no longer had the 4V head. I've since replaced the Autolite with an Edlebrock Thunderseries Carb. I've verified the partial vin# on the engine matches the dash vin# so I've confirmed it's an M code engine, the more I learn about our cars the more I think it's wrong for it to have 2V heads on it but I'm not sure I want to go with the original style 4V heads.

Lots of differences of opinions concerning 4V vs 2V heads for drivability etc.

I'm looking at removing the 2V heads and going with aluminum heads. Suggestions for aluminum head options, would be much appreciated. I've found this to be the place to get the right advice from all different angles before making a major decision on our cars, you guys are great!

Jim

Jim,

I am not sure from your post what the goal is. There are at least 4 aluminum head options but some will require different headers and/or intake manifolds. I think properly set up 4V iron is a viable option if your goal is to increase performance and enhance /maintain originality. Don't buy into the hype about 4V having no bottom end. It simply isn't true. With the right combination of parts you can have the best of both worlds. I ran 4V closed chamber heads with a 2.73 rear gear torker manifold, 214 224 cam and stock converter. It ran pretty good! When I put a 3.70 gear in it was smoke city!

An M code car such as yours which is used the way I think you use yours should have 4V closed chamber heads on it.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[JimNiki]

I'm in exactly the same boat Jim. My M code had the 2V's on it when I bought it. My tuned long tube headers are a good match to it. I don't want to go to the trouble of changing headers. There's some nice alloy 3V's which are a straight bolt on and they come in different compressions. I think that's the way I'll be going.

 

[droptop73]

The CHI heads are probably the best alloy heads out there. Most aluminum heads on the market are closed chambered which will work well for street driven engines. The closed part of the chamber promotes "squish" which causes turbulence in the chamber and allows for a more complete burn and even flame travel. Do not run domed pistons in any engine they kill flame travel across the piston and promote detonation. Aluminum heads are more resistant to detonation since they transfer heat better.

 

[Jim and Jutta]

I think properly set up 4V iron is a viable option if your goal is to increase performance and enhance /maintain originality.

Thanks, more great advice, the reason I reached out to you guys. I'm looking at getting the 2V heads off it not only for increased performance but also so I don't have to always answer the question "you sure this is an M code engine, it's got 2V heads" LOL.

The type of advice you guys are providing is exactly what I was looking for. Now I'm wondering if 4V iron is the way to go.

Jim

 

[droptop73]

From a cost standpoint go with the iron 4v heads. Header replacement is less costly than the aluminum heads and the prep associated with them.

 

[c9zx]

TommyK got it right! The 4V heads don't work on the street thing is a false legend. I could go on about this for a while but, I won't. Find a set of CC 4V heads date coded several weeks to a couple of months before the build date, spend the money for bronze guides, single groove valves, studs guide plates, custom length push rods, roller rockers, and a proper 5 angle valve job. If you have the money (or time to do it yourself) work the short side radii, the guide bosses, and the roof of the exhaust ports (+30 cfm on intakes with no loss in velocity, +25 cfm on exhaust). Select an appropriate cam, lifters, springs, and retainers and you will still spend less than a set of CHI or AFD complete heads will cost. The Edelbrock heads are a waste of money if you are going for the gusto (see their own dyno and flow numbers). No special intake/exhaust parts needed and it will be a "numbers matching" engine. I have factory iron CC heads (on a 408) with these mods, 9.5:1 CR, and a "too rowdy solid cam" that made 529 HP/496 TQ on the engine dyno (standard correction). It is a bit more than most would tolerate and requires a gear and a 3000 rpm convertor but, the point is the 4V factory heads work very well if the components are well matched and the machine work is top quality. Wow, I suppose that did turn into a rant, my apologies. Now I'm tired and need a beer. Chuck

 

[Tnfastbk]

I have the AFD heads on my 408 and depending on who you ask is the answer you will get as which ones are best. Mine did however raise the intake a 1/4 inch or so but just used the gaskets and made a small aluminum filler plate so no big deal. But you CAN NOT run ram air with out some serious mods to the air cleaner.

Here is a link you can check them out if you want to. I have the SP4V's

http://www.airflowdynamics.com.au/site_flash/products/cleveland_heads.htm

 

[hyena429]

Hard to beat the flow out of the old cast iron 4v heads..They are hemi killers with the right cam..lol...I would for the price stick with old cast iron 4v heads..you can get them cheap still...Long as you dont care if they match date codes too much.

Btw tnfastbk...I like how them AFD'S look...but they sure do cost..lol

 

[Tnfastbk]

Hard to beat the flow out of the old cast iron 4v heads..They are hemi killers with the right cam..lol...I would for the price stick with old cast iron 4v heads..you can get them cheap still...Long as you dont care if they match date codes too much.

Btw tnfastbk...I like how them AFD'S look...but they sure do cost..lol

Thanks, they are a little proud of them did I miss in the original post cost was a driving force in the choice:huh:

 

[hyena429]

Thanks, they are a little proud of them did I miss in the original post cost was a driving force in the choice:huh:

Nope! You sure didnt...Reason why i posted a link to AFD heads. i know some folks are willing to spend some cash to have some great light heads....And i been looking at them a few times my self...So i thought..Well those are what i would want..lol

That being said...If you need to save a bit of cash...The old 4v cast irons will kick butt with a big lift and for the price...hehe

 

[Tnfastbk]

Thanks, they are a little proud of them did I miss in the original post cost was a driving force in the choice:huh:

Nope! You sure didnt...Reason why i posted a link to AFD heads. i know some folks are willing to spend some cash to have some great light heads....And i been looking at them a few times my self...So i thought..Well those are what i would want..lol

That being said...If you need to save a bit of cash...The old 4v cast irons will kick butt with a big lift and for the price...hehe

That is true thats why I hung on to mine

 

[Don65Stang]

Being a M-code guy I have to say hold out for a pair of date code correct 4V cc heads or non date code correct 4V cc heads. The 4V cc heads are perfection. The 4V oc heads are really really good too. I wholeheartedly recommend a set of iron heads.

 

[Wolverine]

1. Do you have any idea what torque converter you have? That will help determine if you truly have an M Code engine.

2. If you go with aluminum heads you can expect your front end to raise a little bit. Some guys are more picky than others, but something to consider.

3. Perhaps you could do some performance tests for us with the 2V, and then swap out to the 4V so we can put all the 4V performance rumors to rest...meaning you WILL find the Closed Chamber 4V run circles around the 2V at all performance parameters like:

0-30

0-60

30-60

40-70

1/8 Mile

1/4 Mile

4. Once you feel the 4V heads push you in your seats, you will most certainly decide that you have enough power.

5. Can't change heads without probably changing exhaust...and maybe the intake?

6. You said you wanted reliability. If you car is running smooth as silk, and you are happy with the performance, why change it?

 

[Jim and Jutta]

1. Do you have any idea what torque converter you have? That will help determine if you truly have an M Code engine.

No idea, all I know is the partial vin# on the engine matches the dash Vin# which is M code. So how do I determine what torque converter I have?

By the way, I like how you think outside the box and the input you provide in discussions. As far as the performance tests I have no way of accurately determining the difference the switch would make other than seat of the pants feel.

Jim