electric fuel pumps

[BigPinoyHunk]

well i am getting ready for the big block and i need to put all pushlock connections so i can start my summit et racing series. and i want to install a electrical fuel pump and i can't see where to mount it.

the instruction says to install it below the fuel tank so it'll gravity flow to it cuz they can't really pull and all they can do is pull.

well the sending unit sits at the bottom of the tank and the nipple points towards the front of the car. now how do i make this thing gravity flow to the pump when the tank is realy low of the car? but at the same time, sometimes people say as long as its as close to the tank as possible it'll work.

pics and suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[BigPinoyHunk]

anybody?

i don't know if i want to start going into a fuel cell into the trunk area!

 

[rhazbun]

Olie,

I've been looking into the exact same issue for my 1973 mustang w/ 351C.

I found one company which says they offer a 22 gal tank with an internal sump. That is here:

http://glennsperformance.com/index.php?cPath=78

I have yet to call them and get details.

I've seen photos of electric pumps mounted with a custom bracket, on the frame brace between the tank and the rear axle. This is close, but in-line with the midpoint of the tank.

I've been thinking about fabricating a bracket and baffle to internally mount a walboro fuel pump in my stock tank.

Also, Tanks, Inc. sells an internal pump kit that requires drilling into the tank.

Personally, I think the internal pump would provide the cleanest installation, but I really don't want to drill into the tank.

Let me know what you decide. I've done some research, but haven't done any work at all on this part of my resto-mod project.

--Robert

 

[Mister 4x4]

Thanks for asking this, Olie. I have a Holley Black electric fuel pump I'm going to be installing on mine as well. I'll see what I can find out, and keep checking this thread for more information.

 

[turtle5353]

I have run electric fuel pumps on other vehicles in the past and always just put them somewhere along the frame rail fairly close to the tank. I dont think it has to be way below the tank or anything like that. I never had any trouble with the ones i have used over the years. Not sure if this helps or not. But i would just find a decent spot and mount it.

 

[Widowmaker00]

I have a fuel cell in the trunk, wasn't that hard to put in. I just made 4 little spacers to raise it up off the floor to clear the hump. Just an idea.

Got a holley red fuel pump mounted to the frame rail right beneath it, but I don't think it would make much of a difference as long as it is close to the tank.

 

[BigPinoyHunk]

after looking at some other years doing a electrical fuel pump i've came to conclusion i should locate the electrical fuel pump infront of the tank and behind the axle tube.

this is easy done on the other years because they got the sending unit on the front side but our year cars have them on the driver side and right next to the. therefore, i spoke to the local radiator shop and i asked them if they can add/solder a nipple that will except a -8 AN fitting in front of the tank. however, the back of the tank seems to be the lowest part of the tank and its obvious because thats closer to where the sending unit is at. if i installed it infront of the tank then i may just have 1 maybe 2 galloons of un-usable fuel or the pump will have to start to suck it out.

i was thinking what i should do with the nipple on the sending unit and the guy at the radiator shop said that he can cut it off and close the whole. and now the sending unit is only checking fuel levels.

i also thought about putting an elbow at the bottom of the tank but then people would see it and maybe try to mess with it. i will look at it further to see if there is a spot a nipple can be added towards the front of the backside of the tank and still put the pump somewhere close.

alot of decisions to make tomorrow once i lift the car off the ground and onto jack stands.

all in all, the easiest thing to do is just put it infront of the tank and know that 1-2 galloons of gas is going to be un-usable (even with my needle was on E i still made 2 passes and enough gas to load/unload car, run car in garage for a little while and still have gas) so maybe i'll just have to pay more attention when the needle touches E more than i did in the past.

i hope i got enough gas storage for the gas in the tank. only got a 5 and a 2 gallon. tank is showing under 1/4 tank right now.

 

[Don C]

The biggest problem that I see with having it in the front is that every time you accelerate all of the gas goes to the back of the tank, leaving your nipple in the front of the tank high and dry.

 

[BigPinoyHunk]

The biggest problem that I see with having it in the front is that every time you accelerate all of the gas goes to the back of the tank, leaving your nipple in the front of the tank high and dry.

i was considering after i posted my last reply was to maybe not cut off the nipple on the sending unit or install another nipple at the back of the tank on the side somewhere and have two lines going into the fuel pump.

so it'll suck from two different locations, but primarily from the front one. of course the tank will have to be at least 1/2 full. also need to make sure there is a 2 in and out out adapter as well.

decisions decision decision


looking at 64-70 mustant tanks, aren't the fuel sending units in the front as well?

 

[Mister 4x4]

With consideration that the manual pump (hanging off the engine) is able to suck fuel without being lower than the tank (because the sending unit location is the real deal here), why is it such a paramount to have an electric pump lower than the tank? A fuel pump is a fuel pump, after all - and if it sucks gas through the sending unit (and pre-filter 'sock,' etc.), why would electric be any different than a manual (from the tank's perspective)?

Another question: is putting a nipple at the absolute bottom of the tank really a good idea? What about sediment and other things that would collect in the bottom - are you sure you want that stuff getting sucked into the fuel pump directly?

The sending unit is designed the way it is for a reason, and seems to work just fine with manual pumps hanging off the engine... why would switching to an electric pump be so different - other than keeping it 'primed' before starting so it doesn't burn out prematurely?

I hope these aren't stupid questions - I honestly can't see the difference here. Of course, I haven't actually started researching this, either. So if anybody can offer answers, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BigPinoyHunk]

Olie,

I've been looking into the exact same issue for my 1973 mustang w/ 351C.

I found one company which says they offer a 22 gal tank with an internal sump. That is here:

http://glennsperformance.com/index.php?cPath=78

I have yet to call them and get details.

I've seen photos of electric pumps mounted with a custom bracket, on the frame brace between the tank and the rear axle. This is close, but in-line with the midpoint of the tank.

I've been thinking about fabricating a bracket and baffle to internally mount a walboro fuel pump in my stock tank.

Also, Tanks, Inc. sells an internal pump kit that requires drilling into the tank.

Personally, I think the internal pump would provide the cleanest installation, but I really don't want to drill into the tank.

Let me know what you decide. I've done some research, but haven't done any work at all on this part of my resto-mod project.

--Robert

i broke down and bought their external tank sump. its going to look pretty darn stealthy for a street driven car sometimes but i don't care, i am mostly racing now. (even though she's externally pretty enough to drive on the street )

i came to the conclusion, if i can get a 521 motor build for 75000$$ then i really shouldn't skimp on a 389 fuel tank that i can run 22 galloons in and can safely run only 2 galloons of gas when on the strip.

i've been racing with 1/4-1/3 tank and by the end of the day i can tell my motor is starving to starve fuel at times going down the track with the studdering. i've even put 5 galloons of gas in and then turned right around again and improved a .15 just putting fuel in.

no easy tricks here now besides spending money to support the bigger investment of the car.

darn, my maria mach 1 is becoming a second marriage at the same time!!! she's taking alot of my money but at the same time she puts out and she puts out so good!!!!!!

 

[Tnfastbk]

Whats the old saying? How fast do you want to go depends on how much money you want to spend:s

 

[BigPinoyHunk]

well this morning i completely mangled up the OEM line from the tank to the fuel pump. and now i just got to disconnect the filler neck so it'll drop down (i hope).

this is a brand new tank about a year ago and now its going to go up for sale for anybody who needs a new tank, this one is up for sale. i'm willing to part ways with it now for about 50 dollars plus shipping.

he said he'll ship out by monday or tuesday so there isn't much for me to do this weekend other than wire up the 1 wire alternator now. and to ops check it, i'll just put a rubber hose into the 5 galloons jug i filled up draining the tank and let it feed from there to start the motor.

i guess i could also start wiring up the relay for it as well.

 

[BigPinoyHunk]

at the moment, the entire fuel system is outside the car (had original feed line and everything). i now have a BILLION little socketless AN fittings to do my entire fuel system. i am installing an electric pump to an regulator and running a return line back to the tank. i'm installing a 5/8 suction feed line to the pump, then 1/2 line to the regulator and pump, then doing a 3/8 line for the return line.

mach 1 will be down for a while until i get this glen's performance sump tank in and all these lines figured out.

i overly bought fittings so i don't have to order a single line or fitting while i'm doing it. all these little fittings add up quickly in price. at least the hose isn't too expensive. i bought 40 feet of -8 hose for 82 dollars and 20ft of -6 hose for 35 (return line).

i'm pretty deep in expensive on redoing the fuel system to be NHRA approved.

 

[rhazbun]

at the moment, the entire fuel system is outside the car (had original feed line and everything). i now have a BILLION little socketless AN fittings to do my entire fuel system. i am installing an electric pump to an regulator and running a return line back to the tank. i'm installing a 5/8 suction feed line to the pump, then 1/2 line to the regulator and pump, then doing a 3/8 line for the return line.

mach 1 will be down for a while until i get this glen's performance sump tank in and all these lines figured out.

i overly bought fittings so i don't have to order a single line or fitting while i'm doing it. all these little fittings add up quickly in price. at least the hose isn't too expensive. i bought 40 feet of -8 hose for 82 dollars and 20ft of -6 hose for 35 (return line).

i'm pretty deep in expensive on redoing the fuel system to be NHRA approved.

Olie,

Please post pictures of the tank in and out of the car. I am considering this tank for my setup.

--Robert H.

 

[BigPinoyHunk]

at the moment, the entire fuel system is outside the car (had original feed line and everything). i now have a BILLION little socketless AN fittings to do my entire fuel system. i am installing an electric pump to an regulator and running a return line back to the tank. i'm installing a 5/8 suction feed line to the pump, then 1/2 line to the regulator and pump, then doing a 3/8 line for the return line.

mach 1 will be down for a while until i get this glen's performance sump tank in and all these lines figured out.

i overly bought fittings so i don't have to order a single line or fitting while i'm doing it. all these little fittings add up quickly in price. at least the hose isn't too expensive. i bought 40 feet of -8 hose for 82 dollars and 20ft of -6 hose for 35 (return line).

i'm pretty deep in expensive on redoing the fuel system to be NHRA approved.

Olie,

Please post pictures of the tank in and out of the car. I am considering this tank for my setup.

--Robert H.

the tank shipped this morining from nortern AZ so it should be here maybe thursday or friday.

if you just need a new tank, i have a brand new tank thats one year old sittin in the backyard right now. along with some drag shocks and traction bars.

oh hey, the current 460 motor i have is up for sale too. pan to carb.

i'm mentioning this cuz i see you are from san fran and i'm very close.

 

[BigPinoyHunk]

heres the picture of the external sump tank installed. i will take a picture of the pump tomorrow.

 

[BigPinoyHunk]

after having a ton of issues with the fuel system previously with the bypass regulator. i went back to a deadhead regualator and a aermotive pump. since then i've had zero issues but i still have plans on doing a return line to preserve the pump longer.

I've done alot of research on return systems and it looks like people are forbidding returning fuel back to the sump which my tank from glen's performance is doing. all fuel cells have return lines at the top of the tank. they said returned lines are aerated which carries alot of air which will cavitate a pump if it sucked into pump.

so now i'm going to have to remove tank, have it tanked and have them weld on a -8 an return line and somehow cutoff and weld that 06 return line on the sump.

its another project coming up this year.

 

[Blueoval71]

I have no idea how I missed this thread the first time. So is that the GP 22 gal sump tank? I was originally going to make something like that with a Competition Engineering or similar weld in sump to feed a sx1000 pump and filter I picked up years ago. I'm glad i didn't because I've learned a lot since. Does that tank have the breather on top? If so just make a new plate and incorporate the return near the breather. You can divert the direction of the returned fuel with a hard line. You should be able to find some hard line (same metal type obviously) that will fit snugly into the AN fitting that will be welded in and tack it in place. Just put a little bend in the hard line to divert it away from the sump. You could always do the same thing in its current location (after tanking and flashing off any fumes of course).

I wanted to go in tank so the pumps live longer and mine will be injected so I'm going to redo the top of the tank to accept this: http://www.lethalperformance.com/03-04-svt-cobra/fuel-delivery/divisionx-fuel-hat-manifolds/divisionx-sn95-dual-return-style-fuel-hat-manifold.html

so I can utilize -10 feed and -8 return.

Where do you run your car? I only have Irwindale's 1/8 mile close by.