Original vs Modified

[Boss1Ray]

OK for everyone who could care less how original their cars are - well this thread (probably) isn't for you.
But for anyone that has a car and wonders what is originally correct for theirs - we can help. There are many on here who have devoted many relentless hours to learn as much as possible about how these cars were equipped when they rolled out their production factory. Quite a few have actually purchased their cars NEW.

If you'd like to know just how 'original' your car is in its current state of condition - again, just ask. We will be respectable but very honest. We don't know it all and none profess to on here. But I personally consider it very important for information to be shared and understood what original actually means for our cars. BTW - learning all the time!

Here is a quick morsel of 71-3 Mustang historical trivia some on here might not know:
'Factory' can be either Dearborn, Michigan or for some 1971 Mustangs, Metuchen, New Jersey.

There is a lot of archived information on this site that hopefully is still retrievable using the search functions. But I'm hoping to revive some of the related discussion in this thread.

Ray

 

[Boss1Ray]

crickets????

 

[MikeGriese]

Not sure exactly what you are offering. There are Marti reports that will tell you how the car was equipped from the factory. What are you offering that is different?

 

[Boss1Ray]

Thanks for asking!

There are many things about our cars that the Marti report doesn't address.
example - What cars were equipped with space saver spare tires?

Just trying to keep this information current and correct .

There is a ton of info about our cars that seems to just go away. Maybe apathy? I hope not.
For me I enjoy learning all I can about our cars. Too much incorrect info out there.

Ray

 

[Retired2014]

I ordered my Q code Mach in late 71 and took delivery in Jan 72. I ordered F60-15 RWL tires and it came with Goodyear Polyglas tires. It also came with the space saver spare on a 14” rim.

 

[carguy47]

Well, one of the reasons I registered with this website was to benefit from the knowledge of y'all.
Having built cars since the late 70's, I am very aware how NON-original my car is.
I am also guessing that finding the correct date code 351C and C6 transmission is next to impossible. Even more impossible would be to find my car's original motor and trans.
So I will do my best with what I have available.

 

[Blayne9067]

OK for everyone who could care less how original their cars are - well this thread (probably) isn't for you.
But for anyone that has a car and wonders what is originally correct for theirs - we can help. There are many on here who have devoted many relentless hours to learn as much as possible about how these cars were equipped when they rolled out their production factory. Quite a few have actually purchased their cars NEW.

If you'd like to know just how 'original' your car is in its current state of condition - again, just ask. We will be respectable but very honest. We don't know it all and none profess to on here. But I personally consider it very important for information to be shared and understood what original actually means for our cars. BTW - learning all the time!

Here is a quick morsel of 71-3 Mustang historical trivia some on here might not know:
'Factory' can be either Dearborn, Michigan or for some 1971 Mustangs, Metuchen, New Jersey.

There is a lot of archived information on this site that hopefully is still retrievable using the search functions. But I'm hoping to revive some of the related discussion in this thread.

Ray

OK for everyone who could care less how original their cars are - well this thread (probably) isn't for you.
But for anyone that has a car and wonders what is originally correct for theirs - we can help. There are many on here who have devoted many relentless hours to learn as much as possible about how these cars were equipped when they rolled out their production factory. Quite a few have actually purchased their cars NEW.

If you'd like to know just how 'original' your car is in its current state of condition - again, just ask. We will be respectable but very honest. We don't know it all and none profess to on here. But I personally consider it very important for information to be shared and understood what original actually means for our cars. BTW - learning all the time!

Here is a quick morsel of 71-3 Mustang historical trivia some on here might not know:
'Factory' can be either Dearborn, Michigan or for some 1971 Mustangs, Metuchen, New Jersey.

There is a lot of archived information on this site that hopefully is still retrievable using the search functions. But I'm hoping to revive some of the related discussion in this thread.

Ray

Hello Ray,

 

[Blayne9067]

My story In defense of us modified guys: I bought my used 429cj Mach1 in Tucson, AZ back in 1979. It was slightly modified with hooker headers, Offenhauser 6060DP intake and Holley carb. The car had damage to inner front left unibody sheet metal from previous owner accident. Don’t remember the exact mileage it had when I bought it but it had one cylinder that would foul out plug often, so I ended up having engine completely rebuilt by an awesome speed shop (Precision Racing) ? and continued on with the mods I bought the car with.
A close friend had a gold B1 and we street raced a couple times, he had advantage at start line because of locking diff and taller gear but my slightly modified 429cj and his stock B1 ran neck and neck across finish every time, that was awesome times.
About 15 years ago I decided the car should be brought back to original, so back with the original manifolds and carb along with ‘second engine rebuild’. The shop that painted car did good job replacing damaged sheet metal to address hidden front end damage. I didn‘t go back to original red because at that time the shop was doing a resto-mod 67 fastback and the Dale Jarrett Red looked amazing, so Dale Jarrett Red it was and still is, never regretted making that decision.
January 1, 2020 I decided to rebuild the engine again so it would run on pump gas and make more power. Also wanted to take some more weight off the nose and improve steering. I had a cracked block from a deep freeze that happened after first rebuild and before second rebuild, so that was another reason I needed to pull engine and try to save the numbers matching 4 bolt main CJ block or cut my loses and install period correct seasoned block. I lucked out Big Time and found a guy (Rick Geertsema) that specializes in those kinds of repairs and finally got that crack fixed. I highly recommend Rick, his work is simply amazing. I ended up shelving the original DO0R heads and some other internals, went with Kasse P-51 heads and other internal upgrades. Saved all the original parts I had. Installed Lee’s Steering 12:1 box, huge improvement over stock.
It‘s pretty nice to have almost doubled stock HP and run on 91 octane pump gas. I had lots of help from several people like Rick Geertsema, Paul of Paul’s Empire Head Shop and Roger at Jon Kasse Racing, Inc.
Next owner can take her back to ‘stock’ if he wishes.

 

[Greg]

Seems like most active on this site like mods. I will always prefer original over modified. No interest in racing, but no real interest in a slow speed limit especially on highways. If I were to mod it would be bolt on period correct mods and maybe safety and reliability mods. I prefer a 70's period experience of driving. I always thought the space saver tire was only on sport deck rear seat cars.

 

[Don C]

When I got my car the engine had already been replaced with a service block (that had also been trashed) and the P.O. had started a fold down rear seat installation that was about half completed, so I had no incentive to keep it stock. If it would have been completely stock and a collectable I would have made an effort to keep it that way. As it is, I feel free to make it my car, and make some modifications, like converting the hood lock to cable actuated, converting the non-tilt steering to tilt using a steering column from an '80s F150, finding a Q code block for it, converting to EFI, and upgrading the rear brakes to disk or Fairlane drums. I have always enjoyed making a car mine, anyway, even if it's some minor cosmetics.

If I ever find a 2015 or up Mustang being parted I would like to try to install the MacPherson struts, lower control arms and struts (tension links), both of which are connected with ball joints, in my '71. I believe it is doable and the MacPhersons are easy to convert to coil over. The steering box would also have to be converted to rack and pinion to match the front steer of the MacPherson struts. I don't like the engineering of most aftermarket suspensions, not to mention the costs.

 

[71ProjectJunk]

I bought my car used in 79 in Tucson, AZ. I think from second owner. It was slightly modified with hooker headers, Offy intake and Holley carb. Don’t remember the mileage but it did have one cylinder that would foul out plug, so I ended up having engine rebuilt by awesome speed shop and continued on with the mods I bought it with.
A close friend had a gold B1 and we used street race each other, he had advantage at start because of locking diff and taller gear but my slightly modified 429cj and his stock B1 ran neck and neck across finish every time.
About 15 years ago I got it into my head that the car should be brought back to original, so back with the original manifolds and carb along with ‘second engine rebuild’. Although it looked more correct under the hood, the car was nowhere as much fun to drive IMO.
January 1, 2020 I decided to rebuild the engine again but so it would run on pump gas, wanted take some more weight off the nose, improve steering and make more power. My engine block had cracked in one of the water jackets many years ago and second rebuilder tried welding it himself, dang near ruined my numbers matching four bolt main SCJ block. I found a guy here Nor CA that specializes in cylinder and block repair, was able to correctly repair and save the numbers matching block for the rebuild. I ended up shelving the original DO0R heads and other parts and went with P-51s, Weiand Stealth, etc, etc. Also installed Lee’s 12:1 steering box.
I was lucky enough to keep numbers matching drive train but now I don’t have to worry about running 91 octane gas or adding oct booster. Freaking car is scary fast and handles much, much better. There is no comparison on how the car handles or power output and fun factor while driving.
I love my modified Mustang, next owner can take her back to ‘stock’ if he wishes. For me, I have gone full circle with car I really enjoy it modified. Leaving it modified until I change my mind.

Would like to hear more of how a 429CJ ran with a Boss 351. Magazine tests from the period stated the the Boss 351 was faster than the 429 CJ. It made sense, and did not make sense at the same time. A lot of magazines would get a 429CJ car with an automatic transmission, with A/C, and loaded with options and just 3.25 gears, and then sound all surprised when a much lighter less optioned Boss 351 with a 4 speed and a 3.91 locker would beat it through the quarter. Would like to hear your thoughts on this, as you were there. Was the Boss 351 faster than the 429 CJ or thr 429 SCJ cars? If you had comparable cars, both with 3.91 lockers and 4 speeds, would the Boss still be faster? You have any idea how much better the 429 SCJ cars ran than a 429 CJ?

 

[secluff]

Thanks for asking!

There are many things about our cars that the Marti report doesn't address.
example - What cars were equipped with space saver spare tires?

Just trying to keep this information current and correct .

There is a ton of info about our cars that seems to just go away. Maybe apathy? I hope not.
For me I enjoy learning all I can about our cars. Too much incorrect info out there.

Ray

Boss1Ray,
I know many here appreciate the effort you have put forth in helping to identify and unravel some of the production line mysteries that pop up regularly. I agree that there is a ton of half A$$ info posted in internet land by clueless "Experts." Many 71-3 enthusiasts here, including visitors, are just interested in how their vehicles were configured when new and the available options on different models.

Everyone needs to keep in mind Ford was in the business of mass-producing cars and trucks, not show cars. So there will be variances at many different levels on any of these cars. There were always multiple suppliers to provide Ford with the hundreds of thousands of parts and fasteners it took to "Screw" one of these vehicles together.
The Marti report mentioned by Mike is derived from the Eminger report, which is one of the copies of the actual invoice that was sent along with the car when delivered by the Motor Convoy carrier. It contained base/standard equipment and options, with retail and dealer costs. This document was how the dealer was invoiced and allowed them to add the vehicle into the dealer accounting system and inventory. If it wasn't on the invoice, it didn't leave the assembly plant with it. Since that is an original Ford-produced document, I would put more faith in it than anything else being offered by anyone. As nice as the Marti report is, it is not a Ford-generated document but is a compilation of what Marti's staff interprets as being on the vehicle. I have found a few mistakes in the optional equipment listing on some of my reports. I am not knocking the Marti reports, as I have an untold fortune invested in these reports on several of my past and present vehicles. These are reports that the GM and Mopar fans wished they had for their cars. They do an excellent job of filling in the blanks but leave many items between the lines to sort out.

You'll also notice that, unlike some unnamed forums, the philosophy here is it's your car, do what scratches your itch. There is plenty of room here for Concours, restored to as-built (along with the typical assembly line fuzzy areas) lightly to heavily modded daily drivers and the show queens. The only thing that would raise my eyebrows, and I'm sure others that have come from all Ford families like myself would agree, is doing a Chevy engine swap. There again, it's your car; if you want to swap a Cummins diesel engine, have at it. Just don't be surprised if you don't receive a standing ovation. I can assure you that if you were to mention a 5.0 Coyote swap on a Gm, Camaro, Chevelle, etc., forum, you would not be invited to sing kumbaya around the campfire or receive a big warm wet sloppy kiss!

As to the space-saver spare inquiry, there was never a stand-alone option for this wheel/tire. It was only available on a sports roof with the rear sport deck seat (Fold-down rear seat) or on any vehicle with the F60 X 15" tire option (Standard on Boss) or optional Magnum 500 wheel.

 

[Stevieray]

I’m very much into originality. But that is just me. I appreciate the changes people make to their cars. Whether they can be seen or unseen. I will give much more time looking at an original car at a show than a $100k restoration. It is just something about looking at the wear and tear on a classic car and wondering how it all got there. We are fortunate in that each owner of our Boss 351 has maintained a history of the car. The 3-ring binder I was given with the car 20+ years ago shows the very first oil change receipt the Boss received after having some quick miles put on it within a couple of weeks of ownership. My mind ran wild. I visioned a service member back from Vietnam, purchasing some muscle and letting her stretch her legs across the USA. Some time later I was able to contact the original owner who had ordered the Boss from his local dealer in Nebraska. He provided me a wealth of information about the cars early days. He was military but stationed within the US. He had picked up the car, traveled to his assigned area and went back home a few weeks later to have the dealer correct the Mach 1 decals the factory had put on the passenger side of his Boss. Our car still has the original interior. I like the carpet stains and faded areas due to sun exposure. Since the factory did not put AC in Boss cars, the drivers side door trim has extra wear due to an arm being rested to catch some air on a hot day while cruising. My mind wonders when I drive the car and think of all of the past owners cruising in the Boss. Thanks…….did not mean to be so long here. My mind just started to wonder

 

[Blayne9067]

Would like to hear more of how a 429CJ ran with a Boss 351. Magazine tests from the period stated the the Boss 351 was faster than the 429 CJ. It made sense, and did not make sense at the same time. A lot of magazines would get a 429CJ car with an automatic transmission, with A/C, and loaded with options and just 3.25 gears, and then sound all surprised when a much lighter less optioned Boss 351 with a 4 speed and a 3.91 locker would beat it through the quarter. Would like to hear your thoughts on this, as you were there. Was the Boss 351 faster than the 429 CJ or thr 429 SCJ cars? If you had comparable cars, both with 3.91 lockers and 4 speeds, would the Boss still be faster? You have any idea how much better the 429 SCJ cars ran than a 429 CJ?

I think the reason my car had no problem running with the B was because my hp advantage helped match his weight advantage. Also remember running from slow rolling start.
I wish I knew what happened to that Gold B1 from Tucson, it was one awesome car.

 

[Sheriff41]

I think the reason my car had no problem running with the B was because my hp advantage helped match his weight advantage. Also remember running from slow rolling start.
I wish I knew what happened to that Gold B1 from Tucson, it was one awesome car.

I grew up in Tucson and spent a lot of time on Friday and Saturday nights cruisin' Speedway Blvd in my '72 Q-code and '69 Boss 302 between '75 and '82. Those were fun times! I recall a white and a blue Boss 351. There were several '70 Boss 302s and a '71 429 convertible that was beat on pretty hard (I think this may be 7173Vert's car). A lot of great muscle cars being thrashed on back then and you have to wonder how many are still around.

 

[Blayne9067]

I grew up in Tucson and spent a lot of time on Friday and Saturday nights cruisin' Speedway Blvd in my '72 Q-code and '69 Boss 302 between '75 and '82. Those were fun times! I recall a white and a blue Boss 351. There were several '70 Boss 302s and a '71 429 convertible that was beat on pretty hard (I think this may be 7173Vert's car). A lot of great muscle cars being thrashed on back then and you have to wonder how many are still around.

I grew up off of Speedway and Country Club, Helen St. Catalina HS 76. small world.

 

[7173Vert]

I grew up in Tucson and spent a lot of time on Friday and Saturday nights cruisin' Speedway Blvd in my '72 Q-code and '69 Boss 302 between '75 and '82. Those were fun times! I recall a white and a blue Boss 351. There were several '70 Boss 302s and a '71 429 convertible that was beat on pretty hard (I think this may be 7173Vert's car). A lot of great muscle cars being thrashed on back then and you have to wonder how many are still around.

Interesting… Yes, my car had been well used and abused by the time I got it. I figured the original engine had been rebuilt at least twice before I went through it. I’m still amazed that the car was #’s matching after the use this car must have seen in its AZ days. When it was moved from Tucson to WA State, the son just put the car in storage for many years apparently thinking he was going to restore the car. The abuse this Vert took early on is a testament to how tough these cars really were… I wish I could get hold of the family that owned this car from the mid 70’s up until I bought it in 2015… This is a picture of the car from the late 70’s, early 80’s, but I’m not sure where it was taken in AZ. Notice the ‘74 Mustang II low bucket seats that were swapped in and were still in the car when it was pulled out of long term storage in 2015.

 

[Sheriff41]

Interesting… Yes, my car had been well used and abused by the time I got it. I figured the original engine had been rebuilt at least twice before I went through it. I’m still amazed that the car was #’s matching after the use this car must have seen in its AZ days. When it was moved from Tucson to WA State, the son just put the car in storage for many years apparently thinking he was going to restore the car. The abuse this Vert took early on is a testament to how tough these cars really were… I wish I could get hold of the family that owned this car from the mid 70’s up until I bought it in 2015… This is a picture of the car from the late 70’s, early 80’s, but I’m not sure where it was taken in AZ. Notice the ‘74 Mustang II low bucket seats that were swapped in and were still in the car when it was pulled out of long term storage in 2015.

I'd say that picture was taken at Lakeside Park with the west end of the Catalina Mountains in the distance.

 

[7173Vert]

I'd say that picture was taken at Lakeside Park with the west end of the Catalina Mountains in the distance.

I had to google map that))... So right in Tucson, cool and good to know. Thx.

 

[Sheriff41]

I had to google map that))... So right in Tucson, cool and good to know. Thx.

Yep. The picture was taken from the south side of the lake along Stella Rd. You can see the concrete dam/spillway on the far side of the lake to the right of the earth bank. The park was relatively new in the '70s and the vegetation hadn't established itself. Very different today. My girlfriend (now wife) and I used to go there often back then.